HELP!!! My beardie is sick!

[sandy]

Hi, I'm new here and I'm 13 in a month. I've had my beardie, Sandy (looong story. we used to think "he" was a "she" anyway...) for about ten months. About three months ago he had started showing signs of an illness called "Gout". Gout occurs when the uric acid crystals are deposited in the limbs and kidneys. It causes alot of swelling. Dad did some research and found out that the only reported articles on Gout are on mammals. Usaully seen in humans and rarely seen in animals let alone reptiles. So the only thing I could do was bathe him twice a day and give him only 2 roaches, plus ALOT of greens. So thats what I did up to 4 days ago. He had been really swollen (more so than usual) , and without us noticing he fell off his log and under the heat light on his back. When we found him we pulled him out and put him in lukewarm water. He rapidly heated up the water, his body temp. was up so high. We didnt know if he had cooked any important organs, therefore we didnt know if he was going to make it the night. We took out his log and hoped he'd make it. Well, he had. The thing was that he was acting REALLY sick (barely keeping his eyes open, hardley ever moving, etc.). but the day before yesterday he suddenly got a new symptoms, paralysis. He couldnt move his hips, back legs, and his cloaka was hanging open. He acted as if he was going to die that day. He didn't and is still alive. His cloaka isn't open anymore but he's still acting a bit..well.. off. I've been giving him daily " Therapy" which is when I put him in our bathtub and move his paralized joints. But now he is Falling asleep ( literally he CANT stay awake and you can't wake him up unless you dangle him upside down) constantly, even in the water. He just go's under but doesn't wake up to get himself out. SO I pull him out as soon as it happens, but even so he still has inhaled a good bit of water. Earlier he wouldn't wake up even when i dangled him. I thought for sure he was dead because I couldn't see him breathing. I dunked him one last time for a feeble attempt to wake him and he awoke but looked terrible. I dont know what to do. He is just suffering. I'm pretty sure he isnt going to make it but it would be nice if any of you had ANY information to share. I'm doing all I can but it doesn't feel like enough. I'm racing against the clock untill his death. PLEASE if you have any info that could possibly help dont hesitate and go ahead and post.

Thanks
Gina :help:

 

[Jiffy]

Gina, I am so sorry that your beardie is so sick. The only thing that I can even recommend is to get to a reptile vet as soon as possible.
Please keep us updated.

 

[sandy]

Thanks. And I will keep you posted.

 

[demonsmomma]

paralysis sounds like either compaction( constipation) or a symptom of MBD whats your set up and how old is sandy i really hope he gets better but i dont think i would be danglng him upside down anymore i know if they go on their backs they have problems breathing because their lungs get smooshed and they die , im not sure if the same happens when they are upside down but i dont think i would do it anymore along with dunking him..if hes realy sick and cant stay awake its most likely hes injesting water when you dunk so really thats doing more damage then good,, try to get some babyfood in him or anything with extra protein make sure he stays in temps no lower that 85 and please get him to a herp vet as soon as possible

 

[sandy]

He is not constapated because he pooped (he didn't pee though). Our set up is a 3x3 cage I think. He has proper heating. A cool end and a hot end. A log ,two rocks and paper towels as substrate. Sandy is about 11 months old. And I have heard about not putting them on there backs but dangling him is my only way of waking him/ telling if he's alive. And I dont just dunk him, i only did it once because I thought he was dead. But I understand you point, about not dunking him and dangling him... I'll only do it in emergencies. And he has been drowning himself when he falls asleep, he was doing it before I dunked him. My mom is going to go out and buy baby food first thing in the morning. And protein is bad for Gout, it just makes it worse.

Sorry if I sounded snippy I didn't mean to come across that way and thanks,

Gina

p.s There are no Herp vets around us, but I wish there was.

 

[Buggsy]

what temps are you getting in the tank? and what have you been measuring them with? It sounds like the temps are up way to high if you worried you cooked him.

i think it would help if i asked you all the questions at once, if you could please answer them as fully as possible, with brand names etc:
How old is your dragon?
How long have you had your dragon?
How long is your dragon?
What is the sex of your dragon?
What size enclosure do you have your dragon in?
What type substrate do you have on the bottom of your tank?
Do you use UVB lights?
If so, Is it a coil, compact, fluorescent tube, or Mercury Vapor bulb?
What is the brand name and number of your bulb? Wattage (if MVB)?
How old is your UVB bulb?
How close can your dragon get to the UVB?
Do you use a separate basking bulb? What kind and what is the wattage?
What are the basking temps?
What is the cool side temp?
Do you take the temps with a stick on thermometer, a digital thermometer with a wire and a probe end or a temp gun?
Where exactly are you taking your basking temps?
Do you use a heat rock or heat pad?
What do you feed your dragon? Please be specific.
How often do you feed and what time do you feed (morning, afternoon, night)?
Do you gutload (feed) your crickets, worms, etc?
Do you use vitamin or calcium supplements? What brand(s)? How many days a week do you use each of them?
Is your dragon having regular bowel movements (poops)?
Do you bath your dragon? How often?
Do you mist your dragon or offer water other than in the bath?
Does your dragon share an enclosure with another dragon?
Have you gotten a vet check and fecal done?

I would really try and get him to a vet, try calling all around, where abouts do you live??

 

[sandy]

A 3x3 cage ( i think) 95 degrees on the hot end and on the cool end 85. Ive been measuring the heat by using a meat thermomiter ( it works wonders!) Andthe reason I was worried I had cooked him was because he was directly under the lamp on his back and I hadnt known ho long he had been under there AND he couldnt get away from the heat so he couldnt thermo regulate.

sandy is 11 months old
about 9 1/2 months
umn probably 1o to 11 inches long (he was the runt of the litter. His brother (my sisters dragon) in HUGE!)

male
3x3 cage ( i think)
paper toweling (not shredded)
yes
floresent tube
umn I dont kn ow how old less then a year
as close as he wants when he has his log but we removed it after he fell
yes we use a seperate basking bulb and the wattage is 50 watt basking bulb from zoomed

basking temp is 95
cool end is 85
a digital thermomiter with a cord and probe
on a rock
no heat rocks or pads because Ive heard stories of them roasting themselves so we use a plain rock

we feed sandy a variety of home grown tropical roaches such as the dubia, lobster, and small hisser

we feed sandy bugs 1x aday and only 2 because of his gout. Ive read protein is bad for animals with gout. and then he ALWAYS has green in his cage (mustard and mulberry)

we usually feed in the afternoon
yes we gutload our roaches with oranges, apples, carrots, and an organic dog food called artemis

we use calcium dust everyday.
he was having bowel movements everyday untill he got REALLY sick a few days ago. but sense he's not eating he also isnt pooping.

i bathe him everyday
yes i give him water out of a squirt bottle every other day. but he also drinks his bath water

no he lives on his own
there are no reptile vets around us. but trust me i wish there was.


Thanks for your suggestions, do you have anymore?

Gina

 

[sandy]

This is SO wierd. Sandy can now move one of his legs! I hope he is getting better! Oh and sorry about all my typos on my last reply I forgot to spell check it. Im not getting my hopes up on him getting better though, because sometimes he seems better and other times he doesnt. Anymore suggestions?

Thanks

Gina

 

[Buggsy]

Humm just a few things: The UVB strips need replacing every six months, yes they still turn on the the level of UVB that is emitted is far below the needs of a desert reptile after 6 months. The brand is really important here, so if you could just look at the bulb, it should be printed on the tube there.

Two things are worrying me though, Firstly the Gout. I have never seen it ever in a beardy (not to say it dosnt happen) What exact symptoms was his showing?? 1-2 feeders a day is no where near enough protein to sustain a growing lizard! I am reluctant to trust the diagnosis if this is what the vet has told you to do. Was it a reptile vet??

Just because he was small when you got him, dosnt mean he wont grow, infact if they have the same set up etc they should be of a similar size! im sure the lack of food and old UVB are to blame, 11" is very small for a juvy.

Also a minor point, the basking temps need to be 100-105 is, maybe a little warmer.

If you could just pass on some info about the 'gout' and what exactly the vet said, you may also want to PM tracie (drache) as she is the person to speak to about this sort of thing.

 

[sandy]

i talked to daqd and he said the uvb was4-5 months old. it is a reptisun. i havent been to a vet. there are none anywhere around where i live. alol his limbs such as knees, ankles, toes were all swollen. we found out by doing research on the internet. I tlked to someone on a diffrent board and there beardie also had gout the only diffrence is his died. I know 1-2 feeders shouldnt be enough but the protien kills a animal with gout so we have been trying to avoid protien. and like i said he was TINY when we got him. And the breeder bred his mother to much and she never had uvb or calcium. we didnt know this untill we bought sandy. so we think it is the breeders fault he is ill and pudge (sandys brother) was just lucky because only 3 out of the whole litter survived. Ill give him a hotter basking spot. is the cool end ok, though? how do I get ahold of Drache then? Like I said Im new and have no clue how to do anything except post.

Thanks

Gina

 

[sandy]

OH MY GOD! GUESS WHAT!!?!?!??!!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? When I gave sandy a bath He pooped- AND PEED! AAAAAAAAAAND! Once we put him away I gave him a lobster roach and he ate it! AND THEN ANOTHER ONE! So lets review what has happened today

He swam around
moved his leg
pooped
peed
and ATE 2 lobster roaches!

THANKS
Gina

 

[Buggsy]

Its ok, ill get her to take a look at the thread!

i honestly dont think a diagnosis based on net research will be accurite, but ill let tracie come and look for you.

 

[Drache613]

Hello Sandy,

The overall tank conditions are pretty good. If possible, try to get the basking temps up to around 98, but no higher. AT 95, that is borderline for digestion & for basking temperatures, in general.
If he keeps falling into the water dish, it would be a good idea to go ahead & take it out. He could drown. As suggested earlier, the reason that it was mentioned not to turn him upside down is due to their organ structure. Doing so too often can result in a collapsed lung which will suffocate him. They do not have a diaphram, which is the muscle responsible for helping regulate air flow in humans, & they have to use their throats to push air in & out. So, they basically cannot breathe on their backs unless they are on a respirator during surgery.
I do believe that you & your father probably came to the correct conclusion regarding gout, but for me, if you don't mind, could you please post some pictures it would help me to confirm the diagnosis. No, I am not a vet, just an experienced keeper. I have a dragon with gout & have had one in the past who passed away due to very severe gout, as he was a rescue. I do think that inbreeding most likely contributed to poor genetics which can cause renal dysfunction & other problems.
Protein intake is supposed to be restricted with gout, but he does still need nutrition. If he is not getting enough food, he will need baby food slurries on a regular basis to ensure he gets enough nutrition. Also, calcium should be given at a minimum as well to be kind to the kidneys. So, 3 times a week "should" be adequate. The Reptisun 10 tube bulb needs to be replaced now, as well.

Now, for treatment. He is not going to get better at all, simply by the measures that have been used for the previous months. He needs medication. Now, I realize there are no reptile vets in your area, which makes it very difficult. The medications are not illegal substances & can be purchased online. I can help you with the site to purchase them from, as well as with the dosing & regime, but understand that he will need treatment, for life. His kidneys have been compromised & are damaged to where his system is not properly excreting uric acid at a rate greater than what he is storing it. I wish that you had a blood test so I could see the uric acid levels, but if he is THAT swollen then, he either has pseudo gout from supplementation or nutritional problems, or just full blown gout. The uric acid levels are most likely over 10.
One thing that you can begin immediately before I can analyze your case, is to start getting 2-4mls of oral fluids into him daily. Also, if you can get some dark cherry juice to use for him daily, that is known to help break up uric acid crystallization or tophi buildup.

Please post some pictures for me, thanks.

Tracie

 

[Buggsy]

Thanks tracie!

 

[Drache613]

Hello!

You are welcome.
Just waiting to hear from the OP now.

Tracie