Heating 101

[suzuki4life]

curious, if you can heat a cage AND provide a hot spot from a single 40w bulb...why would use use such a large heat emitter in the winter?

Just because the emitter is 100w, doesn't mean that all 100 watts are being used...

but a smaller wattage unit when turned down would use less.

 

[suzuki4life]

So once again...why do you think Buggsy would need to provide heat at night based of the the daytime temps?

because he said in his initial post he maintains atleast 78 degrees in a 73.4 degree room...he gave misinformation...

 

[suzuki4life]

because thats the only wattage i could get hold of, as stated its barley used. Now why dont you tell everyone else what you use so we can stop nit picking at a set up i know you are biased on?

(for everyone else he dosnt think my set up is appropriate - and im a woman btw lol)

And it dosnt, the heat would gradually dissipate as it rises through the wood and the vents, hence it getting cooler. the ambient temp of the room creates a equilibrium that maintains the temp.

your temp would settle to 73.4 degrees.

 

[GoFast]

So once again...why do you think Buggsy would need to provide heat at night based of the the daytime temps?

because he said in his initial post he maintains at least 78 degrees in a 73.4 degree room...he gave misinformation...

Correct...SHE did say that her DAYTIME temps are 78 degrees on her cool end. We don't really find night time temps relevant in lighting and heating debates unless, as I stated previously, that the ambient temps drop below 65*f at night.

 

[suzuki4life]

So once again...why do you think Buggsy would need to provide heat at night based of the the daytime temps?

because he said in his initial post he maintains at least 78 degrees in a 73.4 degree room...he gave misinformation...

Correct...SHE did say that her DAYTIME temps are 78 degrees on her cool end. We don't really find night time temps relevant in lighting and heating debates unless, as I stated previously, that the ambient temps drop below 65*f at night.

show me in HER post where it says "Daytime"....


ambiant room is 23c, heat emitter is 100 watt, but is never turned on fully.
Basking temp is 104, hot end 90, cool ends 78.


point of this post is to state how to heat a space...not to discuss requirements

 

[GoFast]

because thats the only wattage i could get hold of, as stated its barley used. Now why dont you tell everyone else what you use so we can stop nit picking at a set up i know you are biased on?

(for everyone else he dosnt think my set up is appropriate - and im a woman btw lol)

And it dosnt, the heat would gradually dissipate as it rises through the wood and the vents, hence it getting cooler. the ambient temp of the room creates a equilibrium that maintains the temp.

your temp would settle to 73.4 degrees.

Was that a question? Her night time temps would eventually be 73.4 degrees at night if her ambient room temp was also 73.4. However, the time that would take would be dependent on what her tank is made of, what she is using as a substrate, and what decorations(i.e. rocks, logs, plants, etc...) were present. It may take 1 hour or it could take 12...

 

[Buggsy]

at night yes it does settle to around 73, lower in the wee hours. Im confused why are you asking my night time temps? i thought we were talking about day time heating issues, or do you have your UTH on at night too.

For those still reading the original debate stems from my 'traditional' set up and the use of a UTH for desert lizards.

 

[GoFast]

So once again...why do you think Buggsy would need to provide heat at night based of the the daytime temps?

because he said in his initial post he maintains at least 78 degrees in a 73.4 degree room...he gave misinformation...

Correct...SHE did say that her DAYTIME temps are 78 degrees on her cool end. We don't really find night time temps relevant in lighting and heating debates unless, as I stated previously, that the ambient temps drop below 65*f at night.

show me in HER post where it says "Daytime"....


ambiant room is 23c, heat emitter is 100 watt, but is never turned on fully.
Basking temp is 104, hot end 90, cool ends 78.


point of this post is to state how to heat a space...not to discuss requirements

Her post doesn't have to say the word "daytime" Common knowledge of bearded dragon husbandry would tell you that if someone says they have a 104 degree basking area, 90 degree hot end, and a78 degree cool end that they would be referring to there day time temps...

Obviously requirements need to be discussed and are relevant if somebody doesn't seem to get what is common knowledge.

 

[Buggsy]

i think as we have debated the traditional methods, perhaps you should lay out the un-conventional system so it can be put under the same scrutiny, in the sake of fair and open debate, it feels a little one sided here.

 

[suzuki4life]

So once again...why do you think Buggsy would need to provide heat at night based of the the daytime temps?

because he said in his initial post he maintains at least 78 degrees in a 73.4 degree room...he gave misinformation...

Correct...SHE did say that her DAYTIME temps are 78 degrees on her cool end. We don't really find night time temps relevant in lighting and heating debates unless, as I stated previously, that the ambient temps drop below 65*f at night.

show me in HER post where it says "Daytime"....


ambiant room is 23c, heat emitter is 100 watt, but is never turned on fully.
Basking temp is 104, hot end 90, cool ends 78.


point of this post is to state how to heat a space...not to discuss requirements

Her post doesn't have to say the word "daytime" Common knowledge of bearded dragon husbandry would tell you that if someone says they have a 104 degree basking area, 90 degree hot end, and a78 degree cool end that they would be referring to there day time temps...

Obviously requirements need to be discussed and are relevant if somebody doesn't seem to get what is common knowledge.

so what you are saying is that you assume everyone provides similar temperatures and everyone's house is always at 73.4 degrees at night?

Once again, the post/thread is about heating.
Heating will vary versus the environment that surrounds the cage.

I know my house does not maintain a 73.4 degree temperature. In the winter it fluctuates from 64-68 degrees. In the summer, it may high mid 90's if I am not home with the a/c running.

The idea of a 65 degree minimum is what the bearded dragon can survive in as bare needs for short periods of time. Surely you wouldn't be suggesting that 65 degrees is anywhere near idea would you?

 

[GoFast]

Are you just arguing at this point to argue? You are the only person that keeps referring to night time heat. Again, unless the area of your home gets below 65* at night, there is absolutely no need to discuss night time heating. IF it does get below that, then you may want to use something like CHE to bump it up.

show me in HER post where it says "Daytime"....


ambiant room is 23c, heat emitter is 100 watt, but is never turned on fully.
Basking temp is 104, hot end 90, cool ends 78.


point of this post is to state how to heat a space...not to discuss requirements

Her post doesn't have to say the word "daytime" Common knowledge of bearded dragon husbandry would tell you that if someone says they have a 104 degree basking area, 90 degree hot end, and a78 degree cool end that they would be referring to there day time temps...

Obviously requirements need to be discussed and are relevant if somebody doesn't seem to get what is common knowledge.

so what you are saying is that you assume everyone provides similar temperatures and everyone's house is always at 73.4 degrees at night? Yes, everybody should be providing similar temperatures in their enclosures. I don't care if you live in an igloo or a sauna, the bearded dragons temps need to be near the same as everyone.

Once again, the post/thread is about heating.
Heating will vary versus the environment that surrounds the cage. I don't think you know what this thread is about...

I know my house does not maintain a 73.4 degree temperature. In the winter it fluctuates from 64-68 degrees. In the summer, it may high mid 90's if I am not home with the a/c running. Uhmm....OK so what is your point/question here?? DURING THE DAY, you need to find a way to keep one end of the enclosure, known as the cool side, around 80-85. In addition, you do not want your basking side(on the same side of the enclosure as the hot side) to be much more than 110.

The idea of a 65 degree minimum is what the bearded dragon can survive in as bare needs for short periods of time. Surely you wouldn't be suggesting that 65 degrees is anywhere near idea would you? Ideal for what? It is healthy and natural for temps to drop at night. It happens everywhere. ..

 

[suzuki4life]

trying to argue? I am trying to understand why people are so opposed to UTH heating.

I know for certain that a 50w bulb at full power can not heat a 55 gallon aquarium with a gradient of 80/90 as stated is necessary. It can create the warm side but in a house such as mine the cold side will suffer to near room ambient.(or in my case 68-70 degrees)

However, a simple strip of flexwatt will consume less power while providing a larger heating area thus allow a larger heat source area which would remain much more constant than a bulb would.

Then of course there is the difference between the idea of heating through convection versus conduction and applying heat near the area that actually benefits most from a heat source, the digestive tract.

Add to this the dangers of point of focus in relation to using bulbs especially those who use high wattage bulbs.

When properly used, UTH radiant heating is the most efficient form of heating available. Just curious why so many people voice against it. I have used it for many years with great success

 

[MissT]

Buggsy, what kind of bulb are you using? I struggle to get the temps in my 4 x 2 x 2 and have experimented with soooo many bulbs but if there is a particular type of bulb you use, I would be interested to know what it is!!


One reason that people are opposed to UTH due to the risk of burns. As already explained in another thread beardies do not sense heat well from underneath meaning that they can very easily get burned from underneath as they will spend too long in the heat. If they can feel that they are burning from above they will do so much quicker and will move away froim that heat before a burn is caused.

 

[suzuki4life]

Buggsy, what kind of bulb are you using? I struggle to get the temps in my 4 x 2 x 2 and have experimented with soooo many bulbs but if there is a particular type of bulb you use, I would be interested to know what it is!!


One reason that people are opposed to UTH due to the risk of burns. As already explained in another thread beardies do not sense heat well from underneath meaning that they can very easily get burned from underneath as they will spend too long in the heat. If they can feel that they are burning from above they will do so much quicker and will move away froim that heat before a burn is caused.

if they are being burned then the UTH is not set up correctly.

You use flexwatt in conjunction with a dimmer switch and a thermostat...set it at 80-85 degrees.

I hope people are not dismissing UTH because people don't set them up properly...

many animals have been burned by lamps also....

 

[GoFast]

trying to argue? I am trying to understand why people are so opposed to UTH heating. Well why the heck didn't you jsut say that instead of posting this passive agressive "survey" ?? :lol:

I know for certain that a 50w bulb at full power can not heat a 55 gallon aquarium with a gradient of 80/90 as stated is necessary. It can create the warm side but in a house such as mine the cold side will suffer to near room ambient.(or in my case 68-70 degrees) This all depends on the type of bulb you use...Example, if you use a 50w, par 30 flood light, in a 55 gallon aquarium, you will most definitely reach the appropriate temps. Now, if you use a 50 watt household incandescent, then no, you will not get the right temps.

However, a simple strip of flexwatt will consume less power while providing a larger heating area thus allow a larger heat source area which would remain much more constant than a bulb would. The problem is that the radiant heat from below wouldn't be as recognized as a basking area.

Then of course there is the difference between the idea of heating through convection versus conduction and applying heat near the area that actually benefits most from a heat source, the digestive tract. Evolution designed them to absorb heat from the sun's rays. They are very efficient at converting it.

Add to this the dangers of point of focus in relation to using bulbs especially those who use high wattage bulbs. Not really a danger...The trick is to not use a bulb that reaches temps above the maximum desired temp anywhere in it's output. I do feel that flood lights are much better suited for this than spot lights though.

When properly used, UTH radiant heating is the most efficient form of heating available. Just curious why so many people voice against it. I have used it for many years with great success I would still argue that it's NOT the most efficient when it comes to basking reptiles. In my home, I love radiant heat but for dragons, not really. Perhaps in night time heating applications it would be good if you needed to get your ambient temps up above the 65* mark. Aside from that...I just don't see it.

As for the opposition, it is really simple and has been said before. IF, the UTH malfunctions for whatever reason, the dragon will not react quick enough to move from the spot. It wouldn't move until it recognized that it's core body temp is too high and therefore would result in a possibly deadly burn.