hearing has been set for April 23

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ghr15

Sub-Adult Member
fresnowitte":11573 said:
BrittanyS":11573 said:
That makes me so angry. It really is not fair to us who take proper care of our animals. I would much rather pay extra for a pet with a microchip in it. It would even be okay if I had to get a lisence. Either way, if the law passes, no body has to know I have a beardie. :evil:
I agree I would pay a licensing fee, buy them tags, have them micro-chipped whatever it takes.... but isn't anyone taking my beardies away.

Unfortunately I can't hide as the world knows Zak-n-Wheezie to well.

It's not fair like was mentioned that responsible pet owners must suffer. It really sucks that so many people have set free into the wild so many of these creatures that it has come to this. :angry5: :angry5: :angry5:


I have a solution for that I live in Canada you could always give Zak and Wheezie to me. I kid unless this ban happens I especially do not want anything to happen to the most unique beardie to ever been known to exist. But it happens all the time the innocent suffer all the time for everything others do.

Also I think the evil organization known as PETA has something to do with this. I told you guys they are evil see see I told you all. I guess I am not so paranoid after all.

Still if they ban the reptiles what is going to happen to all of them. After all you cannot release them back into the wild. Furthermore even arid places in the states what exactly damage would introducing beardies actually cause. It is not like the cain toad that is taking over the Australian outback. Even if beardies in the wild breed on there won I fail to see any harm that would come of it. Well take the cain toad it is bad because many animals will die if they eat one.

No animal would ever die from eating a bearded dragon unless it was a smaller animal like a house cat that chocked to death on one which seems unlikely since animals in the wild do not grab a bigger mouthful then they can handle. So glad I do not live in the states.
 

MALIBUSMOM

Gray-bearded Member
UTreptiles":7d695 said:
The good thing about beardies is that they can survive on veggies alone if need be. Supermarket produce section is going to be a beardies best friend. Because if there are scheduled deliveries of crickets to your address they will probably put your name on a watch list with the ATF or FBI. SWAT team busts in the middle of the night to confiscate your dragons. Government is just trying to dip thier hands in every aspect of our lives. :angry5:

They would definatly have to fight me for her!
 

chadwick757

Hatchling Member
This reminds me of the aviation user fee debates going on. Yes this is a crude and insane idea but just look at all the wonderful things our politicians come up with these days. Chances are this will not make it out of committee all it will take is some congressmens kid having a lizard and it will quickly die. Also you would have no end of debate about special cases of zoo's and research facilities having these animals.
And dont forget the possibility of current owners being grandfathered in. It would be unlikely the government would order mass terminations of exotics. This would only encourage the public to release animals into the wild to prevent execution. Though maybe this is the long debated reason for not having a presidential pet!! Just kidding.
 

ashesc212

Sub-Adult Member
chadwick757":500e3 said:
This reminds me of the aviation user fee debates going on. Yes this is a crude and insane idea but just look at all the wonderful things our politicians come up with these days. Chances are this will not make it out of committee all it will take is some congressmens kid having a lizard and it will quickly die. Also you would have no end of debate about special cases of zoo's and research facilities having these animals.
And dont forget the possibility of current owners being grandfathered in. It would be unlikely the government would order mass terminations of exotics. This would only encourage the public to release animals into the wild to prevent execution. Though maybe this is the long debated reason for not having a presidential pet!! Just kidding.

That's a good point! Let's hope those kids have lizards!

It grandfathers current pet owners in btw:
(f) ANIMALS OWNED LAWFULLY PRIOR TO PROHIBI7
TION OF IMPORTATION.—This Act and regulations issued
8 under this Act shall not interfere with the ability of any
9 person to possess an individual animal of any species if
10 such individual animal was legally owned by the person
11 before the risk assessment is begun pursuant to subsection
12 (e)(3), even if such species is later prohibited from being
13 imported under the regulations issued under this Act.
 

ashesc212

Sub-Adult Member
This is from USark.org:


NO on HR669 / Grassroots Organizing 101

OK everyone just take a deep breath.... we need to look at this problem objectively. This is not the time to panic, it is not the time to get emotional, but it is time for thoughtful, deliberate action!

If you have been listening to USARK for very long, you knew that this was coming. Many were of the opinion that HR6311 was dead. USARK warned that although it was dead for 2008 it would be reintroduced in 2009. Now we have the newest version, HR669. Now the question becomes: What is the Herp Community going to do about it?

Let's look at the history of HR669:

1. It began in 2007 with a petition from the South Florida Water Management District (SFWMD) to USFWS to add Boa, Python and Eunectes to the 'Injurious Wildlife List' of the Lacey Act. That was followed by a Notice of Inquiry published in the Federal Register calling for public comment in early 2008. This constituted the first step in a 'potential' Rule Change to the Lacey Act. This process is under way and can take up to 4 years to effect an actual Rule Change. It is not over. This is still being processed by USFWS.
2. The Humane Society of the United States (HSUS) and the Defenders of Wildlife, unhappy with the pace of progress with a 'potential' Rule Change to the Lacey Act, convince a group of US House members to introduce a bill based on a report written by Defenders of Wildlife called Broken Screens. In July of 2008 HR6311 is introduced into the US House of Representatives. Marshall Myers of PIJAC is present and makes an eloquent point by point rebuttal of the Bill. Because of so many other pressing issues HR6311 dies in the Natural Resources Committee it was assigned to.
3. USARK warns that even though HR6311 is dead for the legislative session it will be revived in 2009. USARK initiates a petition against HR6311 October 2008.
4. January 2009 HR6311 is reintroduced as HR669. A group of 10 House members co-sponsor HR669 and it is assigned to the House Natural Resources Committee.

Facts about HR669:

1. If passed HR669 would end the import, purchase, sale, trade and breeding of many reptiles and amphibians including boa, python & eunectes. The following is an excerpt from the Bill.

SEC. 6. PROHIBITIONS AND PENALTIES.

(a) Prohibitions- Except as provided in this section or in section 7, it is unlawful for any person subject to the jurisdiction of the United States to--

(1) import into or export from the United States any nonnative wildlife species that is not included in the list of approved species issued under section 4;

(2) transport between any State by any means whatsoever any nonnative wildlife species that is not included in the list of approved species issued under section 4;

(3) violate any term or condition of a permit issued under section 7;

(4) possess (except as provided in section 3(f)), sell or offer to sell, purchase or offer to purchase, or barter for or offer to barter for, any nonnative wildlife species that is prohibited from being imported under paragraph (1);

(5) release into the wild any nonnative wildlife species that is prohibited from being imported under paragraph (1); or

(6) breed any nonnative wildlife species that is prohibited from being imported under paragraph (1), or provide any such species to another person for breeding purposes.
2. There are 10 sponsors for this Bill. That means this is serious. They want to pass this Bill. Some of sponsors have strong relationships to the HSUS.
3. HR669 has very little basis in scientific fact. There is no evidence to suggest that banning any of these animals will have any positive effects on the economy, environment, or human or animal species health.
4. What is certain is that passing HR669 would add to our country's economic decline and devastate American families and small businesses.
5. Your voice can make the difference in the defeat of HR669!

What can I do IMMEDIATELY to keep HR669 from passing?

* Click sponsors name from list below and that will take you to their email portal.
* Fill in subject field with 'OPPOSE HR669'
* Cut and paste sample letter into body of email adding your own comments (or write your own letter).
* Be brief, be polite, be articulate and DO NOT BE DISRESPECTFUL! This is extremely important!! If you can't do this don't bother to make contact.
* Let them know how HR669 would effect you and your family.
* Fill in your personal information.
* Click SUBMIT button.
* Send a separate email to [email protected] with HR669in your in subject line so we can track the number of people participating.

Sponsors List:

1. Del. Bordallo
2. Rep. Napolitano
3. Rep. Kind
4. Rep. Grijalva
5. Rep. Kildee ** NO EMAIL
6. Rep. Klein
7. Rep. Hastings
8. Rep. Abercrombie
9. Rep. McGovern ** NO EMAIL
10. Rep. Miller

Sample Letter: Cut & paste letter.

Subject: Oppose HR669number

(Del or Rep Name),

I oppose HR669. This Bill is not based in science, but in the ideology of powerful special interest groups. There is absolutely no evidence to suggest that banning the import, sale and trade of any of these animals will have any positive effect on the economy, environment, or human or animal species health.

In fact, if passed it would destroy many families and businesses. It would have a decidedly negative impact on an already ailing economy by destroying a vital and growing industry at a time when our country is in need of jobs and growth. The USFWS has just made changes to the CITES export permit process which would allow quality captive bred animals to be more easily exported to international customers. Passing HR669 would negate all the work USFWS has done for over a year. This Bill is a disaster to American small business and families in a time of economic hardship.

(tell in your own words- what you do and how passing this bill would hurt you and your family)

Please do not pass HR669.

Thank you,

(Your Name)



*
This is just the first step in a proven formula of grassroots politics used by groups such as the NRA and HSUS. Be ready to take the next step soon.
*
Educate yourself to the process.
*
If you haven't already signed, please sign our Petition Against HR669.
*
If you are not a paid member of USARK please join today! Fighting legislation like this takes members and money. We need your help to safeguard our Reptile Nation.
*
Don't forget to email [email protected] when you're done so we know how many stood up and did their part.

***Please do this now and pass it on to everyone on your email list!!

Join USARK! There is Strength in Numbers... Protect Your Rights!
 

munchkins9802

Gray-bearded Member
I will post more on monday. But I did want to correct one thing, the bill did not officially originate in 2007. THey have been trying to get a bill ike this passed for over 15 yrs now and it hasnt made it yet. And if you read further into it, they are more worried about the improtation and exportation of certain species not current animal owners. I have talked to 2 people regarding this so far so I am not going to worry about it until it gets passs stage 3--it has only gotten pass step 1. There are several more things it has to go thru first
 

BrittanyS

Hatchling Member
ashesc212":b9320 said:
It grandfathers current pet owners in btw:
(f) ANIMALS OWNED LAWFULLY PRIOR TO PROHIBI7
TION OF IMPORTATION.—This Act and regulations issued
8 under this Act shall not interfere with the ability of any
9 person to possess an individual animal of any species if
10 such individual animal was legally owned by the person
11 before the risk assessment is begun pursuant to subsection
12 (e)(3), even if such species is later prohibited from being
13 imported under the regulations issued under this Act.

Okay does this mean we could keep our pets if we had them before the bill passes?
I'm a little slow in the morning lol
 

zebraflavencs

Extreme Poster
Okay, but even if current dragons are grandfathered in, all the government would have to do is wait 9-12 years, and all these dragons would have passed away, still making it illegal for any new dragons to be "adopted".
Janie.
 

ashesc212

Sub-Adult Member
zebraflavencs":1c2b1 said:
Okay, but even if current dragons are grandfathered in, all the government would have to do is wait 9-12 years, and all these dragons would have passed away, still making it illegal for any new dragons to be "adopted".
Janie.

Exactly! That's what I've been trying to say.

I can't picture a life without reptiles.
 

xbluex

Juvie Member
ashesc212":c8d77 said:
zebraflavencs":c8d77 said:
Okay, but even if current dragons are grandfathered in, all the government would have to do is wait 9-12 years, and all these dragons would have passed away, still making it illegal for any new dragons to be "adopted".
Janie.

Exactly! That's what I've been trying to say.

I can't picture a life without reptiles.

We'll have to start an underground reptile breeding/trading system..
The thing that I really don't understand about this is that the reptile community is in a way saving all these reptiles from different countries...Having them brought over here and then breeding them to establish a group here, we have been making more and more of them so that they hopefully will never be endangered or extinct.
And as for the idea that they will be released and take over the US..its kind of a hilarious thought. If you think about it logically the only ones that would even survive are the giant moniters; tegus, nile moniters, guys like that, then they'd have to find eachother and breed. Even if that happened the babies would have to survive which is very unlikely since most places in the US don't have the right temps/humidity/food that is very important for hatchlings to survive.
I live in one of the hottest places in the US, and I know that if I was to let my beardies go they probably wouldn't make it through the night unless it was during late June to early August. Plus they'd have to keep from being killed by coyotes, wild dogs, birds(crows hawks ect), and the huge chuckwallas that could easily kill any smaller reptile.
Sorry about the rambling lol Sometimes I just don't know when to stop :blob8: :blob5: :banghead:
 

ghr15

Sub-Adult Member
xbluex":5187a said:
ashesc212":5187a said:
zebraflavencs":5187a said:
Okay, but even if current dragons are grandfathered in, all the government would have to do is wait 9-12 years, and all these dragons would have passed away, still making it illegal for any new dragons to be "adopted".
Janie.

Exactly! That's what I've been trying to say.

I can't picture a life without reptiles.

We'll have to start an underground reptile breeding/trading system..
The thing that I really don't understand about this is that the reptile community is in a way saving all these reptiles from different countries...Having them brought over here and then breeding them to establish a group here, we have been making more and more of them so that they hopefully will never be endangered or extinct.
And as for the idea that they will be released and take over the US..its kind of a hilarious thought. If you think about it logically the only ones that would even survive are the giant moniters; tegus, nile moniters, guys like that, then they'd have to find eachother and breed. Even if that happened the babies would have to survive which is very unlikely since most places in the US don't have the right temps/humidity/food that is very important for hatchlings to survive.
I live in one of the hottest places in the US, and I know that if I was to let my beardies go they probably wouldn't make it through the night unless it was during late June to early August. Plus they'd have to keep from being killed by coyotes, wild dogs, birds(crows hawks ect), and the huge chuckwallas that could easily kill any smaller reptile.
Sorry about the rambling lol Sometimes I just don't know when to stop :blob8: :blob5: :banghead:


Well I live 6 hours from new york city and live in Canada I have a male and female beardie. I could Breed them have somone come pick them up and distribute them in the states.

But anyway some people on here seem to not be all there when they say beardies currently owned are ok to have. Well for example my water dragon is almost 8 years old they live 8 to 10 years so he could live another 2 years or simply die at any time at his age. Well I could not imagine how devastated I would be when my water dragon dies if I knew I could never own another one ever again.

One of my beardies is 3 the other is 6 yars old so for people living in the states if they have middle aged or older beardies it means it will only at most be 3 years before they are without beardies entirely. Oh and wild beardies are being affected by cain toads so a ban on breeding them could mean extinction for Pogona Vitticeps. Would any of you like to live in a world where the bearded dragon is an animal you can only read about in books because they are extinct?

It may only be in the states but what happens if other countries see them successfully bannning in the state it may give them ideas and before you know it every country beardies and other reptiles are banned. Many of these animals are not really doing that well in the wild so it could mean total extinction of many species of reptile.
 
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