head biting

[lemmons]

not sure if this should be here or not but i guess its breeding related... my females got a bite mark on the back of her head where my male likes to bite her, how do i tell if its infected or not? he's pulled a few scales off but theres no bleeding/pus/swelling/redness. i've got some antiseptic ointment but she's not so keen on it - well she doesn't mind me putting it on but not so keen when i try to clean it off to put the next lot on.

 

[diamc]

Hi, is the female gravid now? If so, she shouldn't be housed with the male any longer. When you want to breed them, they should only be housed long enough for the breeding to take place. If allowed to be together constantly, the male will continue to breed her which will affect her total health because she won't be able to eat as much as she wants, bask when she wants or be allowed to just hang out without him harassing her. It will also affect her laying her eggs and she needs to be alone and quiet then. So, if they are still together, I suggest you separate them right away.

As far as taking care of the sore on her head, you can bathe her in a betadine bath, the water should look like weak tea. If the area looks raw, you can apply a triple antibiotic like Neosporin but make sure you don't put her right under the basking light after applying it or it could cause her to burn. Also make sure you don't have a loose substrate or it could get on that area. Watch for yellowish/greenish discharge, redness, swelling, heat and if any of those appear, she should see a vet right away.

 

[lemmons]

theres no discharge redness bleeding heat swelling or anything that would suggest infection, the ointment i have is f10 if you've heard of that? its one i got from the reptile shop. she is pregnant i think but he doesn't seem to be harrassing her at all, i do see him head bob from time to time but that seems more to be at me than her! she's certainally getting enough food and i've not once seen him kick her off the basking site(his preferred basking site is different to hers anyway) or anything like that - he doesn't seem to bother her, she goes and sits on him if anything. i presume i should just put the betadine solution on the sore area? thanks for the advice!

 

[diamc]

This must be what you're using "F10 Barrier Ointment". I've heard of it but never used it. If she doesn't like you applying or removing it, it may sting a little. To use the Betadine, you wouldn't apply it to the sore area but instead bathe her in it, adding enough Betadine so that it looks like weak tea. Then blot her dry and apply a triple antibiotic like Neosporin.

The headbobbing and even her sitting on him are dominance issues which can get worse at any moment. She really should be by herself especially since there is a good chance that she is gravid. How old is she? Do you plan on separating them before she lays her eggs? If not, she may hold back laying them with him around which could cause her to become egg bound which is very serious.

 

[lemmons]

thanks - i'll invest in some betadine. the reptile place said not to remove it because i might be removing new tissue she's putting down herself, which from what i know about human wound care makes sense, but i don't like the idea of leaving old ointment on her! I don't have anywhere i can separate her to. she laid her previous 2 batches with no problems though,and she really doesn't seem stressed by him.

 

[Ethelia]

We cant stress enough how important it is to keep your dragons seperate, especially if they are mating and she becomes gravid.

As diamc has already mentioned as your male has become sexualy mature there is a risk of overbreeding which can seriously damnage your females health.

Dragons nearly always are stressed by their housemates, even if they do not show any outward signs. Her sitting on him is a sign that there are dominance issues.
Other than dragons becoming stressed when living together beardies can and do attack eachother, unfortunatly dragons are not like dogs, who can be taught about naughty aggressive behaviour.
They can live in apparent harmony for months and then one day snap. Once it has happened once, it will happen again and again.
Dragons will think nothing of nipping off a chunk or tail/toe in order to defend their basking spot, its just in their nature.

I dont mean to scare or scold you, but I want you to appriciate what can happen:
In my time keeping dragons I have rescued two dragons who were living in a viv with other dragons.
Dexter was small for her age and was missing a bit of her tail, most of her right arm, most of her right foot and alot of her toes.

Ruben had his leg and arms ripped off at the joints by his clutchmates.

There are cases where dragons show no signs of agression towards eachother, and there isnt too much bullying but it is a risk that is simply not worth taking.
I cannot tell you the amount of times we have read about one beardie not eating well, we advise the owner to seperate and then within a week we get replies saying how much better their dragon is doing.

I would suggest you separate your beardies with a cardboard screen for now until you can figure out a perminant solution.
Your dragons will lead much happier healthier lives apart.

Holly

 

[lemmons]

thanks both for your advice - i want to do the best by chappers and george. they're currently living in a 4foot by 22inch by 22inch viv. my hubby will not allow the house to be taken over by vivariums, but he did let me get a 3foot by 18 inch (deep) by 20 inch (high) viv for the babies. i'm thinking i could maybe put the male in there, i'm just trying to work out how to get the correct heating gradients etc for him/the babies. i've got a ceramic heater for night heat giving them a night temp of 80 degrees and 60watt reflector spot bulbs giving them a basking spot of 31degrees c in their current set up (in the smaller viv i've just heat gunned it at 41 degrees c) and a cool area of 80degrees f (apologies for the mix of c and f but the heat gun will only do c and its not mine to fiddle with!) they both have uv tubes as well. i know obviously i can't put him in there with the babies when they hatch but i'm guessing if he is stressing her without my knowing it then a break will do her good? until he can go in there more permenantly? i'm just worried that because ive not had long to test the heat gradient out i might inadvertantly cook him if i put him in there too soon. and i'm at work all day so i cant check the temp until 6 in the evening (lights go on at 8.30 am). i have got some 40w bulbs as well. the big tank has two 60w but i've just got one in the small viv at the moment. i've only had it all on for a few hours so not sure if it'll have settled yet. but she started digging today so i've put her lay bin in (the big tank that is). i have got one of those vivarium lock things that i use on the big viv in the summer to keep the end open a little to keep the cool end cooler. any advice? would two females cause the same problem?

 

[lemmons]

just realised ethilia you're from the uk as well - so you understand the weather atm if it helps with the heating questions/issues! i got told by someone on here that if i keep them together i will get 3-6 clutches of eggs a year for maybe 6-7 years. is that true? or will they just keep laying and laying?

 

[Poisoned1]

If they keep breeding they keep a laying

 

[Ethelia]

Hi there,
Temperatures come winter time are a real struggle to keep stable with our fluctuating weather. It would be so much easier if we lived somewhere that was perminantly hot or cold so we could get some stability!

And yes, if you keep them together you can expect clutch after clutch after clutch. Imagine if you left a teenage male in a room with nothing to do other than sunbath and... well enjoy the natural things in life.
This may be something to use as a bargaining chip with your husband. Incubation and baby care can really be expensive, and you would be doing in multiple times a year. Not only that but with over breeding you may end up with vet bills for your female.
All of that added up is a very scarey figure. A seperate home for your adult will be a much more financially sound plan.
Not to mention the health risks to both your dragons.

As for the male you cant put him in with the babies. Unfortunatly its highly likely that he would end up seriously hurting one or all of them.
If you intend on selling your babies a much better plan would be to give your spare viv to your male dragon and invest in some rubermaid tubs for your babies. You can then rig up a long long UVB to cover a number of these tubs with your dragons in until you sell them on.
There are quite a few pictures showing breeders set ups that I will tryand hunt down for you.
They are in the "PICS ON VIV THREAD" in Enclosures.

Dragons are notorious for disliking change so I would wait until you have a perminant home figured out for your male before you move him. Numerous moves are likely to make him suffer from relocation stress.

Holly x

 

[lemmons]

don't they naturally have 'seasons'? i've separated them btw, hubby's at home till lunchtime so he can keep an eye on george (male) in smaller tank till then. if it gets too hot he'll just have to move him back. he didnt' seem so impressed with his new surroundings! i don't think chappers has even noticed he's not there anymore, she's too busy digging! i've seen the breeders set ups with the big tub thingys but not really sure how i'd heat them - they all appear to be open to the rest of the room and i just dont know how i'd keep them warm enough. and how high can the babies jump?! the house is already overrun with crickets!! i was planning on selling the babies, was intending to keep george in 'baby' tank until they hatch, then move him back with chappers until i can sell babies, then move him back again. think i might have to destroy the eggs she lays this time, much as i dont want to and feel bad for all her efforts going to waste i can see it being a never ending circle otherwise! hopefully one day i'll have a big enough house to have a proper go at breeding with the right facilities. do you think this will work/be ok?

 

[lemmons]

also is the smaller viv going to be ok for him as a permenant home? is it big enough?

 

[Poisoned1]

They have natural breeding seasons in their homes in Australia...it's not really going to happen at a new home with completely different weather.

The smallest size for a good size viv is 3 ft long, 2 ft high, 2 feet wide.

 

[lemmons]

mine's almost that, do you think it will be ok? what do you think about my heating/lighting set up?

 

[Ethelia]

I think the heating and lighting got a little jumbled in the past posts,
could you write a list of your setup of each tanks?

Holly