First dragon is a rescue with problems. Please help!

[Nadialy]

I've had him for about 2 weeks now, and I am so glad I found this website. I just posted a little introduction for him here: viewtopic.php?f=44&t=155327

Age and Size
He is 18'', and the pet store I had look at him said that he might still be a juvenile around 2 years old, or reaching that age.

Problems
Diarrhea: He made a nice solid poop every day for the first week. Then he did not poop for 2 days, and the last two days he has had shapeless liquidy mush for poop. I don't know why this is. Can he get sick from eating dead crickets? Sometimes he does not eat them immediately and they die, and then he eats them. The greens I give him are fresh. Could he get diarrhea from not eating enough greens? The diarrhea especially worries me because he does not eat his veggies or drink any water.

Possible Yellow Fungus: I noticed yellow around his eyes and on a spot on his back. I took him to the vet I work with and tried to get him to look at him, but he said he is a dog/cat vet, and doesn't know about reptiles. I am currently a student living away from home, and the internship at the vet's office does not pay me, so after making all of these purchases for the dragon (especially the tank and MegaRay bulb), I really don't have any money to take him to a vet that will charge me, at least not until more scholarship money comes in, and that is a while from now. I was hoping somebody could look at the pictures I got of him and tell me what it looks like to you. I am currently putting lamisil on this yellow spot on his back (that's why it looks wet), but I have not been putting it in around his eyes because I don't want to accidentally hurt him without even really knowing whether he has yellow fungus or not. Here are some pictures below of the spots which I took while he was basking. I can take more if you like.

**Those two pictures are actually quite big, but the website makes them smaller. You can see their full size if you right click them and then click "View Image".**

Does not eat his greens: From reading around this website, I know he is not the only one who has this problem. I have tried wetting them and hand feeding them to him. Neither make him more interested, and I don't think he trusts me enough to eat from my hand. I feed him 10-15 crickets a day and 2-3 super-worms. I have provided him with collard greens, mustard greens, turnip greens, spinach (before I read that this was bad for him), prune, peach, and red peppers. He hasn't eaten a bite voluntarily since his first day. On his first day in my house, he ate half a handful of spinach, 1/4th of a peach, 20 crickets, and 10 super-worms. I figure he must have been starving, but he has not eaten any veggies or fruit since that first day. I still have the veggies available to him, but not as many as I would put out before, because he doesn't eat them anyway. I am currently feeding the crickets greens and hoping he gets his stuff by eating them. I also sneak veggies into his mouth when he basks under the heat lamp with his mouth open. He swallows them, but then doesn't want to open his mouth again for more, and 2-3 leaves a day just doesn't seem enough. Is there anything else that I can do?

Does not drink water: I've tried wetting his greens but he does not eat them, and I have tried spraying around his tank, but he doesn't lick it off the walls. His skin is wrinkly around his back and sides of the belly when he stands, so I don't know if this means he is dehydrated. I've been giving him a bath almost every day (because he gets poop all over himself, especially since he has diarrhea.), but he doesn't drink the bath water. Do they absorb it through their skin? Should i sneak water into his mouth while he basks, or is that too much?

Seems 'upset' and bad-tempered: He does not like it when I handle him at all and has tried to bite me before, and run off of my hand when i pick him up. I am slow and patient with him and try to support his belly but he doesn't seem to want me near him. Is he grouchy because he is not getting enough uvb, or he's sick? Could I be holding him wrong? Do they need time to warm up to you?

Enclosure Information
Tank: After the first week when I realized a 45 gallon tank would not be large enough, I got him a used 65 gallon tank off craigslist which I cleaned with vinegar. He seems happier with it and doesn't do his 'glass dance' as much as he used to.

Substrate: I initially had him on calcium sand, but he would eat the sand, and would walk all over his poop and kick it around until he mixed it in with his sand. Within several days the sand was fouled and smelled terrible. I took the sand away and he is now on the bare glass. He still mushes his poop around so I have to give him a bath after every BM, but at least his tank is easier to clean. I have my eyes open right now for branches or rocks that I may find around which I can insert into his tank, but I have found none so far.

Lamps: I bought him a T-Rex heating/lighting lamp, and a UVB lamp which was dead on arrival. As soon as I found out that the UVB lamp I ordered didn't work, I ordered a MegaRay UVB lamp instead because I heard those were very good (it still has not been shipped!). I put his 45 gallon tank in the balcony so that he can get indirect sunlight for 3 hours a day. I don't know if this is enough to make D3 while waiting (possibly up to a month) for his new UVB. I wish I could have him out there more, but it's been around the 60s in the morning, and that seems too cold, and I have work in the afternoons and feel nervous about leaving him alone outside. Any advice on this would be appreciated, since I just don't know.

If there is any more information that I can provide, please ask. I am trying to do my best for him, but I didn't know ANYTHING about bearded dragons before I got him, so I have really limited knowledge, and I am starting to think my resources are too limited as well (especially when it comes to that possible fungus) to give him the proper care/attention/TLC that he needs.

Please respond =)

 

[Beardednoob]

I would place something like paper towel or newspaper for a temporary substrate, just so he has some footing. Reptile carpet works well, natural stone tiles are good also. Personally I wouldn't keep him on sand, great for removing it. :wink:

Definitely continue to bath him too. I do not see anything that resembles fungus/mold on him, yellow mold leave little question that it is there. How are you monitoring his temps?
I would take him outside for some sun for 2 hours a day weather permitting. He should be getting his UV.

My first step would be to get him a fecal test. He has indications of parasites (diarrhea, loss of appetite etc..)
Does he have any enclosure decor/hide?

 

[Kate221]

Doesn't look like Yellow fungus to me but what do I know?! lol Definitely use some form of substrate so he won't slide all over the place!! I know a lot of people on here use shelf liner, some use tile, I use repticarpet and when I have to toss it out I use newspaper until I can get more!!

Keep giving him baths, it helps with shedding and he may randomly drink it one day. My Enya decided one day that it may taste good, and since then she's drank from her bath like a horse!! I mist her and Loki every other day and they lick it off of their lips....I mist until they stop licking it, I havn't noticed a problem with humidity, it's just nice to see them drink water!!

Most people on here use Reptisun 10.0 uvb bulbs, they're great!! Next time you order a UVB consider ordering one of those instead of the megaray!!

Try to hold him at night, when he's really sleepy instead of during the day when he's most active and will run from you. That's how most people get their little hyper babies used to being handled!! He probably isn't used to being held and loved, try it before bed, when he's tired and won't run or try to bite. He may sleep on you,...it's the sweetest thing ever. :love5: When I first started, I would get a towel, put it on my chest and lay the beardie on top of the towel, then wrap them up like a burrito. Loki wouldn't be still unless it was fairly dim in the room and later at night, around 9 or 10pm. Every night now I just get him out and he sleeps on my chest for a while. It's so sweet to know that they trust you that much.

It sounds like you're doing good so far, Don't give up on him yet, Lots of people on here started with rescues just like you. It's a learning process, everyone on here is super helpful and will be more than happy to help you with any questions you have!! Good luck and thanks for taking that baby in, it sounds like he will be in good hands!!

 

[Nadialy]

I would place something like paper towel or newspaper for a temporary substrate, just so he has some footing. Reptile carpet works well, natural stone tiles are good also. Personally I wouldn't keep him on sand, great for removing it. :wink:

Definitely continue to bath him too. I do not see anything that resembles fungus/mold on him, yellow mold leave little question that it is there. How are you monitoring his temps?
I would take him outside for some sun for 2 hours a day weather permitting. He should be getting his UV.

My first step would be to get him a fecal test. He has indications of parasites (diarrhea, loss of appetite etc..)
Does he have any enclosure decor/hide?

I have a little color thermometer which is not too accurate. It says that his tank is around 80-85 on the cool end, and over 100 on the heated end, although I cannot tell how much. It feels very warm but not HOT to my touch when I touch the bottom of the tank. Does it matter that he is not usually in DIRECT sunlight outside? Can he still get his UV this way?

Good idea with the fecal test. I can perform my own since we have the equipment where I work at the vet's office, so next thursday when I go to work, I'll go ahead and do that.

He currently has no hide, except that I drape a blanket over the non-lighted end of his tank. He can't reach the blanket, but it keeps my cats from looking in on him. I've got a little log in there right now but nothing else. I've been keeping my eyes open for more, and just put the papertowels in as well.

Also, Thank you for your suggestions Kate221. I'll continue to give him baths, and I'll try your handling suggestions, thanks. =)

 

[Nadialy]

I would place something like paper towel or newspaper for a temporary substrate, just so he has some footing. Reptile carpet works well, natural stone tiles are good also. Personally I wouldn't keep him on sand, great for removing it. :wink:

Definitely continue to bath him too. I do not see anything that resembles fungus/mold on him, yellow mold leave little question that it is there. How are you monitoring his temps?
I would take him outside for some sun for 2 hours a day weather permitting. He should be getting his UV.

My first step would be to get him a fecal test. He has indications of parasites (diarrhea, loss of appetite etc..)
Does he have any enclosure decor/hide?

I have a little color thermometer which is not too accurate. It says that his tank is around 80-85 on the cool end, and over 100 on the heated end, although I cannot tell how much. It feels very warm but not HOT to my touch when I touch the bottom of the tank. Does it matter that he is not usually in DIRECT sunlight outside? Can he still get his UV this way?

Good idea with the fecal test. I can perform my own since we have the equipment where I work at the vet's office, so next thursday when I go to work, I'll go ahead and do that.

He currently has no hide, except that I drape a blanket over the non-lighted end of his tank. He can't reach the blanket, but it keeps my cats from looking in on him. I've got a little log in there right now but nothing else. I've been keeping my eyes open for more, and just put the papertowels in as well.

Also, Thank you for your suggestions Kate221. I'll continue to give him baths, and I'll try your handling suggestions, thanks. =)

Oh, and here are some pictures of him I took today:

 

[Beardednoob]

He should get direct sunlight. I would get a digital w/ probe thermometer, Walmart you can get the Acurite digital thermometer x2 w/ 1 probe and built in hygrometer for around 12$.

Let us know how the fecal test turns out.
Is he eating better?

 

[Nadialy]

He should get direct sunlight. I would get a digital w/ probe thermometer, Walmart you can get the Acurite digital thermometer x2 w/ 1 probe and built in hygrometer for around 12$.

Let us know how the fecal test turns out.
Is he eating better?

I'll look for the thermometer next time I'm there. He eats fine as far as I know, but only crickets and super-worms. He ignores all sorts of veggies. I've tried spinach (before I heard that it wasn't good for him), collard greens, turnip greens, mustard greens, red peppers, prune, and peach. How many crickets and super-worms should he eat a day if he doesn't eat his veggies?

 

[Beardednoob]

This really depends on a few different things, first off the pet store claiming her was a "juvenile" at "2 years" is wrong if a dragon is 2 years old it is an adult full grown but, if the dragon is a juvenile it is under 1 year old. Juveniles and adults get fed very differently as a juvenile is growing and needs more proteins from insects, adults require less insects and more salad. If he is under weight and is 2 years for a bit he may only want insects, ensure in either case you are dusting his food/feeders with multivitamins and calcium (for your instance calcium with D3). Has he been weighed yet? A digital scale is accurate were analog scales give false readings (generally). I would track his weight, and watch his fat pockets, superworms are fairly high in fat.

you are right on the spinach, however there is a misconception that spinach is toxic, it isn't. What the issue is with spinach is that it is very high in oxalates. Oxalates attach to calcium and render it unable to be metabolized during digestion, high amounts of spinach can cause MBD because of this.

Has he smelled the greens being offered? You can spice up a salad with things like strawberries, blueberries etc.. cut up small enough that they are not very easily picked out one by one.

To reiterate though, track weighed and also track length, if the dragon is growing in length it might be a sign that he is younger then 2 years.

If he isn't eating salad I would bath 3-4 times a week in 93-96°F shoulder height water for 10-15 minutes.

 

[Nadialy]

This really depends on a few different things, first off the pet store claiming her was a "juvenile" at "2 years" is wrong if a dragon is 2 years old it is an adult full grown but, if the dragon is a juvenile it is under 1 year old. Juveniles and adults get fed very differently as a juvenile is growing and needs more proteins from insects, adults require less insects and more salad. If he is under weight and is 2 years for a bit he may only want insects, ensure in either case you are dusting his food/feeders with multivitamins and calcium (for your instance calcium with D3). Has he been weighed yet? A digital scale is accurate were analog scales give false readings (generally). I would track his weight, and watch his fat pockets, superworms are fairly high in fat.

you are right on the spinach, however there is a misconception that spinach is toxic, it isn't. What the issue is with spinach is that it is very high in oxalates. Oxalates attach to calcium and render it unable to be metabolized during digestion, high amounts of spinach can cause MBD because of this.

Has he smelled the greens being offered? You can spice up a salad with things like strawberries, blueberries etc.. cut up small enough that they are not very easily picked out one by one.

To reiterate though, track weighed and also track length, if the dragon is growing in length it might be a sign that he is younger then 2 years.

If he isn't eating salad I would bath 3-4 times a week in 93-96°F shoulder height water for 10-15 minutes.

He has not been weighed yet, and my scale (a human scale) isn't sensitive enough to pick him up. I'm not sure how I would go about weighing him. I'll offer him some strawberries tomorrow mixed in with his greens. He doesn't seem to be growing long-wise... he is already 18''. I am actually more often than 4 times a week to clean the poop off his tail and feet. I think I've been bathing him in too-deep a water though, because I had him in a Tupperware container large enough for him to float in. I'll get a shallower one next time, and maybe he will drink. I haven't seen him drink once, and I'm getting nervous that he is getting dehydrated =(.

 

[Beardednoob]

Just being in the bath can offer some hydration. They can and will absorb small quantities of water through their vent.
You can use a digital kitchen scale that will weigh up to 800g or over.

 

[Nadialy]

Just being in the bath can offer some hydration. They can and will absorb small quantities of water through their vent.
You can use a digital kitchen scale that will weigh up to 800g or over.

Oh yes, of course! I'll see if I can borrow one. This will be great to see if he's eating enough.

Great news!!!! He ate some collard greens today! I stuck some wet collard greens into his mouth while he was basking, and I guess he liked them because he went over and ate some right after that. It feels like progress!

 

[Beardednoob]

Just being in the bath can offer some hydration. They can and will absorb small quantities of water through their vent.
You can use a digital kitchen scale that will weigh up to 800g or over.

Oh yes, of course! I'll see if I can borrow one. This will be great to see if he's eating enough.

Great news!!!! He ate some collard greens today! I stuck some wet collard greens into his mouth while he was basking, and I guess he liked them because he went over and ate some right after that. It feels like progress!

That is great news! How is the setup coming along?

 

[Nadialy]

Just being in the bath can offer some hydration. They can and will absorb small quantities of water through their vent.
You can use a digital kitchen scale that will weigh up to 800g or over.

Oh yes, of course! I'll see if I can borrow one. This will be great to see if he's eating enough.

Great news!!!! He ate some collard greens today! I stuck some wet collard greens into his mouth while he was basking, and I guess he liked them because he went over and ate some right after that. It feels like progress!

That is great news! How is the setup coming along?

Honestly, it's coming along pretty slowly. That UVB lamp shipment is probably going to take its time. On the bright side, his calcium supplements came in and I have his cage lined with ripped up paper towels.

The yellow spot on his back seems to be getting worse, but I don't want to be paranoid. I think I'm going to start taking a picture of it every day to see whether or not it actually is getting worse or whether its just in my head. If it gets worse even though I'm putting lamisil on it... is it then more likely to be a bacterial infection?

 

[Nadialy]

This really depends on a few different things, first off the pet store claiming her was a "juvenile" at "2 years" is wrong if a dragon is 2 years old it is an adult full grown but, if the dragon is a juvenile it is under 1 year old. Juveniles and adults get fed very differently as a juvenile is growing and needs more proteins from insects, adults require less insects and more salad. If he is under weight and is 2 years for a bit he may only want insects, ensure in either case you are dusting his food/feeders with multivitamins and calcium (for your instance calcium with D3). Has he been weighed yet? A digital scale is accurate were analog scales give false readings (generally). I would track his weight, and watch his fat pockets, superworms are fairly high in fat.

you are right on the spinach, however there is a misconception that spinach is toxic, it isn't. What the issue is with spinach is that it is very high in oxalates. Oxalates attach to calcium and render it unable to be metabolized during digestion, high amounts of spinach can cause MBD because of this.

Has he smelled the greens being offered? You can spice up a salad with things like strawberries, blueberries etc.. cut up small enough that they are not very easily picked out one by one.

To reiterate though, track weighed and also track length, if the dragon is growing in length it might be a sign that he is younger then 2 years.

If he isn't eating salad I would bath 3-4 times a week in 93-96°F shoulder height water for 10-15 minutes.

Thank you so much for that suggestion! The grocery store didn't have strawberries so I got him some blueberries and he was ALL ABOUT THAT. Right after hand feeding him 2 halves, he willingly took two huge chunks of collard greens. I guess he just didn't like prunes or peaches, which is fine with me... I'm just glad he's eating something.

 

[Beardednoob]

This really depends on a few different things, first off the pet store claiming her was a "juvenile" at "2 years" is wrong if a dragon is 2 years old it is an adult full grown but, if the dragon is a juvenile it is under 1 year old. Juveniles and adults get fed very differently as a juvenile is growing and needs more proteins from insects, adults require less insects and more salad. If he is under weight and is 2 years for a bit he may only want insects, ensure in either case you are dusting his food/feeders with multivitamins and calcium (for your instance calcium with D3). Has he been weighed yet? A digital scale is accurate were analog scales give false readings (generally). I would track his weight, and watch his fat pockets, superworms are fairly high in fat.

you are right on the spinach, however there is a misconception that spinach is toxic, it isn't. What the issue is with spinach is that it is very high in oxalates. Oxalates attach to calcium and render it unable to be metabolized during digestion, high amounts of spinach can cause MBD because of this.

Has he smelled the greens being offered? You can spice up a salad with things like strawberries, blueberries etc.. cut up small enough that they are not very easily picked out one by one.

To reiterate though, track weighed and also track length, if the dragon is growing in length it might be a sign that he is younger then 2 years.

If he isn't eating salad I would bath 3-4 times a week in 93-96°F shoulder height water for 10-15 minutes.

Thank you so much for that suggestion! The grocery store didn't have strawberries so I got him some blueberries and he was ALL ABOUT THAT. Right after hand feeding him 2 halves, he willingly took two huge chunks of collard greens. I guess he just didn't like prunes or peaches, which is fine with me... I'm just glad he's eating something.

This is great! I am very happy he is eating greens. You are more then welcome, I am very happy to help.
Just out of curiosity can you post a good clear image of the spot on his back?
Have you seen his colors lighten up yet?