Dragon - possibly dying - Please help - vet yesterday but..

[wizbee]

Any news?

 

[tatum123]

Hi,
Sorry for not having time to update everyone.
Hubby is sick, daughter is sick and missing school, dragon is sick... wow... sometimes it seems there is never enoughh time!yes
(Plus - I did do one early yesterday am, then hit some stupid key and it all vanished)
Did not have time to do it all over again at that time.

My dragon is still living.
I kept him alive (I am sure) thanks to all of you and your feeding and care advice.
He is not in good shape however.

He is very dehydrated, and possibly has a tumor that may or may not be cancer.
The vet was not sure, and we will have to see if it keeps him from being able to pass a stool.

The mass in in his intestine, and it might be an impaction, however he said it has a hard edge - so we will have to wait and see how this progesses.
He has only eaten organic food all of his life, so I am a bit of a skeptic that it will be cancer - but you never know and I have my fingers crossed.
He did have a stool just after the last time he ate - so I am hoping that this is just a stubborn stool that hates to pass - we can get this one done if that is the case!

The vet was actually increadible with lizards.
He showed me how to "gently" press on his eyes to help me to open the mouth.
I find it a bit cruel - but to me everything sick MUST be babied, and I am doing this only because he HAS TO EAT!
I have been feeding him the baby foods with a syringe.

I want to ask you all how much he needs to eat each day?
I am unsure when it is too much, and also not enough.
I am mixing the green beans, the carrots, squash, and a tiny bit of chicken & applesauce.
I add some pedialyte and also take a small amount of the calcium spray and vitamins and add these as well.

The vet gave him Batril the other day - I knew if I heard the name that I would recognize it!

The new vet gave him some fluids, and K and a steriod, not sure what all else was in the coctail - but it did perk the little guy up for a few hours.
I will be taking him weekly for additonal calcium shots & fluids as needed until he is better.

I will then be asking you all to help me make sure the tank is set up to here he has the best use of his space (will upload images etc)
Sorry - I am still up until 2:00 - 3:00 am each night catching up my store shipping.
I am running on vapors, and always a bit exausted these days.
:wink: Not complaining about people shopping :wink:

Everyone - I am trying to feed him again - please help me make sure that I am feeding him enough - yet not too much.
I am using a 3ml syringe given to me at the vets office -
Any suggestions?

Thanks,
RT

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

Usually the measurement of food is .5ml of food per 50 grams of bodyweight. If you feel he needs a bit more, you can give a little more. Do you know his weight?
What type of impaction do you think it would be if it is impaction? What type of feeders have you been feeding him, is it something that could have impacted him?
Did you get an x-ray?

Keep us posted on him ok? Thanks.
I hope he is feeling better soon.

Tracie

 

[tatum123]

Hi,
No - the vet did not take an xray.
I should have asked for one - but did not think to for some reason - (duh moment)
I think I was just too worried and trying to pay attention to what he was saying to think to ask.

I dont know about the whole impaction thing, I mean he has a what I call meaty area on both sides under his arm that begins about 2 inches down on the side, but both sides feel the same to me, maybe I am missing something - but then again, I am not pushing his insides nearly as deep as the vet did.
I asked him - umm.. doesn't that hurt?
He said no, and then pushed in on his side and said "no more than this does" and I thought to myself, yeah, but if I did that then grabbed ahold of your intenstines or kidneys or whatever - it might hurt hugh?

But then again - I am not a vet so ... I guess he knows better than I do, anyway when I feel of the same area under both of his arms, but a bit down - I feel what I would guess was something like a muscle - but to me they feel just about even on both sides.

As for the impaction, I am sure that if he has one - that it is from the silica sand that I have been keeping him on for 5 years now.
That is what they sold at the pet store for him, and I did not know it was bad.
I will move to newspaper and then to the mat suggested in one of the first posts.
I will also be buying the thermometer suggested earlier - (hopefully I will be able to make a shopping trip in the next day or so)
I always fed him fresh greens, he had gotten to an age where he refused to eat mealworms or crickets, in my stupidity I thought it was normal for them to go vegetarian.

I did notice a runny eye today - I called back and they said that next week, they may possibly give him another shot of batril.

The vet visit for the shot was $63.00 - seems a bit much for a shot, but whatever.
Carni weighed 431g when weighed at the vet.
I just weighed him on my postal scale (after feeding around 1 hour ago) and he weighed 486g.

Thanks for the feeding info, if he is skinny, there is a possiblity that I could feed the poor little guy until he brusts!

He has not had a bm, but I am guessing that his body is so starved that he is absorbing everything he is eating.
I can feel him try to go when he is in the bath, but it is not happening.
Can you feed him something that will help him - go - if he needs to?
Like fish oil, or mineral oil or anything like that - probably a stupid question - but it does not hurt to ask.

Thanks,
RT

 

[wizbee]

Sorry everyone is sick. They are lucky to have you to nurse them all back to health. No question is ever silly. I think applesause helps with bowel movements. Could you post some pictures of the little guy and his set up?

 

[EclpsPrinc]

When I'm concerned about a bowel movement, I mix unsweetened applesauce with a bit of olive oil. It seems to work well.

 

[tatum123]

Hello,
Thanks for the info.
He did have a bm today - and it was slightly runny (probably due to the pedialite) and very green.

Now - anyone have any thoughts on the anatomy of the dragon, I tried to google it, but only came up with one page that showed the dissection, and since things were taken out - I really could not tell if any area should be firm under the on the sides of the dragon.

And as for the feeding based on weight - is this once a day amount of the amount you should give with each feeding?

Thanks,
Rhonda

 

[tatum123]

One more thing - I lost my password and keep having to reset it because now it is random.
Is there a place where I can go and reset my password to one that I can remember?
Thanks,
Rhonda

 

[Drache613]

Hello Rhonda,

Could you post a picture of your dragon so I could see the bumps you are talking about? It could possibly be his fatpads underneath his arm pits though is what I am thinking.
Has he ever had impaction problems? It is possible he could be partially impacted. In adults, it sometimes takes years for it to build up because their intestines are larger than babies & are able to hold more sand material than babies, but, they can still become impacted. It can damage their GI tract to the point to where it affects the absorption rate of nutrients & foods that he is not getting the proper nutrition because of that, if it is impaction.

How is he doing today, have you gotten food into him?
The feeding is total for the day. So your dragon is 431 grams, he can take up to 4 to 5 cc's or ml's of food, daily broken up into several feedings.
Keep us posted. I am glad he went to the bathroom today.

Tracie

 

[tatum123]

Hello,
I think you may be right about the partial impaction.
I fed him (actually over fed him earlier - sincere thanks for the food measurements) and when I was giving him a warm bath, he kept trying to go, but could not.
I let him sit under the light for a hour or two, then went back and gave him another warm bath - same thing - this time I figured that possibly the
warm water running over his back with a little bit, but not alot - just a little water running over him like a hard waterfall might stimulate him to go.
It did, he went a little - again it was runny and soft, however I could tell he was still trying to push something out.

I do think you are correct and that he has some impaction that has built up with some sand over time.
Can anyone tell me how to help him move this one through - or can it be done after it has been there for so long.
I did give him a little applesauce and olive oil, maybe this will help.

I can try to take some images asap, but right now I am dealing with a sick hubby, sick daughter (now with a ear infection) and a sick dragon.
I still have the store to keep up with, and sooo much to do that I cannot keep up.
I will try my level best to get some pics up and uploaded.
You cannot see any visible lumps or bumps.

I think the lump he is talking about is in the very center of his body - just around half way between the neck and vent.
I have been trying to help him move it through, but I do not think it is moving at all.

Thank you so much for all of the advice and help, I am absolutely confident that he would not have made it through the night had it not been for all of the
help that all of the members of this forum had given me to keep him hydrated and fed.
He was just withering away.
He is a bit more perky now, trying to move around in the cage, however I think he has some MBD, strangely he seemed so strong before all of this
happened - the vet said that when they go down, they go down fast - but I really honestly throught he was so very healthy until all at once he was deathly sick.
I guess I was missing signs that I clearly did not know to look for.

I signed up for a different forum the first day this happened, I kept asking for help - but there was little to no activity on that forum.
If I had not found this one, I am not sure what I would have done.

Thanks again everyone - and if you all have any advice on how to get a tough impaction to move on through - I am all ears

Rhonda

 

[wizbee]

Keep up the good work. The warm baths are good along with the applesauce, some try canned pumpkin I think. BTW I am an ebayer too what is your store? Do try for a few pictures.

 

[tatum123]

Hey everyone,
I finally did get a couple of images, one of the dragon - and one more of his belly (just in case)

You can check the image links at:
http://www.glimmeringgems.com/images/Ebay/Random/Carni.jpg
http://www.glimmeringgems.com/images/Ebay/Random/Carni2.jpg

As for my ebay store - the name is Glimmering Gems - I sell a variety of stuff, but my favorite item to sell is Amethyst Stalactites used for making jewelry.
They are so much prettier than they photograph! (technically Glimmering-Gems on ebay)

Carni was just fed, he had a small runny stool, I will check to see if the lump has moved at all when I give him the bath.

Again - I cannot thank everyone enough, he is doing a bit better, now all he needs is to get his bones strong again - I am pretty worried about how limp he seems when he tries to stand and walk.

Thanks,
Rhonda

 

[Drache613]

Hello Rhonda,

Really the best things that you can do are these steps that we have suggested. The warm baths, at least once daily. While he is in the bath, gently massage his belly on the right side, all of the way from his armpit to the vent, gently... Use mineral oil, that would work a little better I believe than olive oil. Mineral oil tends to lubricate the GI tract better than olive oil, that just dissolves into the food, etc.
Do not feed any solid foods, at all right now. Continue with the sugar free applesauce, pumpkin, squash babyfood, & maybe some chicken or turkey babyfood, along with extra fluids, daily.
You can set him up on extra heat overnight too. Use a sock, & fill it with rice & tie the end. Microwave it for a few minutes & then put a towel in between him & the rice sock to keep him from getting too hot. Or, if you have a heating pad, you can put that on low, & put a towel in between him & the heating pad. A little extra heat overnight may help his body metabolize the impaction more quickly.
That is really all you can do. There is one other thing, if you can get him to try & swim around some in the water, exercise is very helpful in getting things to move through. So try that as well.
Let us know how Carni is doing.


Tracie

 

[tatum123]

I do have a heating pad, but it cuts off after every hour, so I will do the rice sock.

I thought about the mineral oil, but was not sure since somewhere I had read a long time ago that you should not get oil on their skin as they absorb much of their water this way, so I just was never sure about adding any sort of oil to their diet, figured in the wild it was not something they would normally ingest.

The vet gave me a list of greens, told me to puree them and feed him this - he said I should not do too much squash because he is low on calcium and this would bind to it. Yesterday I gave him the squash, green beans, chicken and peidalite, and a little applesauce, then a tiny bit of the green pureed.
Tonight I did the greens pureed with pedialite.
Do you all think the squash is better than the greens?
I think there are so many people here that have tons of experience - that I would have to believe you all over the vet.
I know his intentions are good, but I would think the advice from a site where there are hundreds would trump the advice of one.
So please let me know if I should change back to the ones you all listed.

I made him quite the mix. It is a blend of all of the items suggested on the list.
It is quite long, but if you all want me to - I will list them here.



I forgot to ask (I am so totally exausted right now)
Wizbee - what is your ebay store - you know we ebayers like to buy from each other

Thanks,
Rhonda

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

No, the list you are doing, the greens, is perfectly fine. Just as long as it is all soft foods, no crickets, etc, until he passes this. No problem, you are doing great. As for the oil, just use 1-2 drops, daily, that is it. The squash, given in small amounts wont bind calcium as long as you are giving calcium & he is getting other foods, too.
I am sure that the slurry that you mixed up for him is perfectly fine. You will have to load up the slurry in the syringe then put it in a container, & add a couple of drops of mineral oil, then, reload the food into the syringe. How much does he weigh? Go for .5 ml or cc per 50 grams of bodyweight. So, if he weighs 300 grams, he can have up to 3-4 ml's or cc's of food, daily.
That is fine, let us know how the rice sock does for him. He will enjoy the warmth on his belly.

Tracie