Do YOU think Beardies Can Love You?

[CaptainVimes]

The essential error of the Cannon-Bard theory was to consider the existence of an initial "center" for emotions (the thalamus). Soon enough, though, in 1937, the neuroanatomist James Papez would demonstrate that emotion is not a function of any specific brain center but of a circuit that involves four basic structures, interconnected through several nervous bundles : the hypothalamus with its mamillary bodies, the anterior thalamic nucleus, the cingulate gyrus and the hippocampus. This circuit (Papez circuit), acting in an harmonic fashion, is responsible for the central functions of emotion (affect), as well as for its peripheral expressions (symptoms).

So, there we go. The hypothalamus alone IS NOT responsible for HUMAN emotions.

With regard to whether a reptile has little or no hypothalamus I have yet to discover, but this document shows that emotions IN HUMANS are not just processed by the hypothalamus.

Found what I was looking for. At long last.

Yes, you are correct that it is a scientific fact that reptiles cannot "love" their owner...

Although some signs of affection can be perceived in birds, the limbic system only began to evolve, in fact, after the first mammals, being practically non-existent in reptiles, amphibians and all other preceding species.

My input will be continued in the next post....

 

[CaptainVimes]

So yes, I have managed to prove that you were partially correct in your original statement. OK so you said it was just the hypothalamus, but I'm not pedantic, so I will take your original statement as truth.

The only reason WHY I sat for literally THREE WHOLE HOURS researching into this, was because I wanted to know FOR MYSELF whether or not you were indeed right in the first place.

I admit that my initial reply really was very rude, but YET AGAIN, I went into defensive mode. Something that I am not proud of doing, but it does happen on occasion. (twice in this forum in a matter of three weeks, so I am going to sort myself out after this)

I have already explained before that I am not very well, to another member in PM. I have to admit that I am REALLY REALLY POORLY, I am severely physically disabled and I would say "somewhat" Mentally disabled, but over these past couple of weeks, I seem to have gotten rather poorly indeed. (I am hoping that it is due to one of my many medications, and not a new symptom)

The only way I can think of, to protect this forum from my mental disability, is to leave. However, I already have grown an affection to this place, and I would hate to have to leave because I have been rather stupid in my actions on two occasions.

I have decided from now on, that I will steer clear of this sort of post, which, until I butted in was a very nice and friendly debate between the "scientific" and the "fantastical" members.

So, from now on, I will give my advice IF IT IS ASKED FOR, or if it is specifically something I have experienced and so can give CONSTRUCTIVE AND FRIENDLY ADVICE... and I will kindly ask advice from other members when I have any queries with regard to Dexter.

Any other posts, where members are freely allowed to express their opinion, I will "steer clear of them with a 10ft barge pole". (an English expression, which may well have travelled "across the pond")

I feel absolutely awful right now, because first impressions last, I KNOW I will have given the impression that I am an absolute "Female dog" (of any variety you so wish) I have run my own forum (which is broken at present ) for 6 years now, and I have always managed to stay friendly, un-opinionated and polite. I will now practice those self inflicted rules upon myself in this forum.

HOWEVER, because of my actions, if anyone should wish that I leave straight away, then I will completely understand and will take my leave and try to get my advice from the reptiles forum. (You think I'm bad, you should spend a week there, and dare to do anything other than the norm and still be alive by teatime)

I will now take my leave and await the instructions of other members.

Kindest regards

CV.

 

[Germ]

OK ~ I lied! ~ I will reply ...

My goodness, you did go all out, didn't you :wink: .

First I would like to say that I am sorry to hear of your illness & situation. While not bedridden, I am a Cancer survivor & can empathize to a certain extent about the meds, being ill, being confined, mentality, etc.

I can only speak for myself, but am almost sure that the majority will agree. No one wants to see you leave. Diversity is the crux of most forums, I have not taken any serious offense & as far as first impressions go, I am quite impressed by your determination & quest to find the truth about what you believe in. A really good thing in my books.

As for how you originally went about it, sh!t happens and we have all gotten carried away at some point or another, about some thing or another. No Biggy.

I have gotten to know many good people over the years on these forums & in my personal life through debates & downright confrontations. Just because our views differed & in the process of clearing it up, a kind of camaraderie quite often develops once a better understanding of each other is established.

Once again, I for one do not wish to see you leave or stop posting. Inquisitive, resourceful people can quite often be hard to find.

I have no wish to be your enemy, your debate opponent periodically maybe, but not your enemy. If not friends, at least 'Tolerable Aquaintences' .

I would also like to thank you for all your in depth research, which did open my eyes to several things that I was not aware, or was unsure of.

We are all here, well most of us anyway, to share & learn from our experiences. I am always learning more or something new/different about these creatures, that is a big part of my enjoyment of my animals & the hobby. Oh and on my vocabulary too, I had to look up 'Pendantic' :lol: .
See you on the Forums

Germain

 

[PumpkinJelly]

Germain -Yay you're back! Way to keep the peace. I like it!

CaptainVimes - (I read your post earlier but I didn't have time to reply! Sorry!) But anyway, I did learn a lot from you, and like Germain said, I would hate to see you go, since you're a really good learning aspect of this thread! Not to copy what Germain said, but I too admired the way that once you set your mind to something, you're on top of it and you want to learn everything about it! That's a quality I'd like to have (I tend to procrastinate on things, such as keeping up on a topic, and then I forget to do things. LOL!) Everyone has their "moments". Don't get upset about it, we're all happy to hear what you have to say! (By the way, sorry about your condition. I, on the other hand, do not believe you're mentally disabled or anything like that. You definitely have that argumentative side like everyone else. From what I can see, what you said is what everyone does. Everyone gets out of hand, so don't sweat it. (Sorry if I'm confusing at all, I'm rushing because I have things to do and I'm sort of sputtering out whatever my mind tells my fingers to type!! )

Germain & CaptainVimes: You two are very intelligent, from what I have read from you guys. Keep it up!

 

[CaptainVimes]

:lol: "PJ", I'm far from intelligent, I just know how to use google (errr... Not saying that you DON'T, err.. Anyone got a spade to dig me out of this hole? :lol: )

Germain, Thank you for being so kind as to forgive me for my initial approach.

I am glad that my three hours of research has actually been useful.

I am still going to believe, for my own "therapeutic value", that Dexter "loves me back".

Prior to finding Dexter and adopting him. I constantly pined for a dog, as I had to give my "best friend" away in the beginning of 2004, because the Biological Father of my children forged my signature and sold the family home right from underneath me.

The only place I could find that would accept "DSS tenants", (people living on benefits) was a tiny house, where the landlord stipulated "strictly no pets".  I had no choice but to sign up, I couldn't make my then - very young children homeless, just to keep my dog.

Ever since that very sad day that I signed her over to the shelter, and they wouldn't even let me say goodbye, I have pined for a dog. There has been a dog-shaped hole in my heart.  Simon has continually said no to a dog ever since 2006. (he would have to walk it, clean up after it, do all the "husbandry" that would be required with a dog, as I wouldn't be able to do anything, but "love it")

When I brought Dexter home on 15th December, in 24 hours of him living here, he filled that hole.  To me, he is my "ickle scaly puppy dog".

He's fast asleep on me, as I'm typing this. (I just love his pyjamas! (sleeping colours))

Maybe this is something he wouldn't do if he wasn't "comfortable with me", or trusting of me, maybe?

Whatever, like I said... I love him "to the ends of the Earth" and back, I am going to continue, to make myself believe, that he returns that love unconditionally.

I've undone my cardigan, laid him on my fat belly, and then done the cardigan back up, last button no higher than his "middle"... He has now, three times - wiggled his little body in a backwards shuffling motion, to go further down into my cardigan! so cute! :lol:

 

[Germ]

G.

 

[PicosParent]

I am so happy that everyone is staying and understands each other better That and the sun shining and we got Pico's new home all done makes for an awesome day!!! CaptVimes I am sorry for your health issues and will keep you in my prayers. Germain, thank you SO much for the private message suggestion of green beans!!! Pico, Muttly (my poodle/bichon mix dog) and I were sitting on the floor by the sliding glass door enjoying the sun and I tried to feed him one....no luck Well I gave it to Muttly and he gobbled it down so the next one I held out, Pico ate before the dog could LOL and going back and forth; one for Muttly, one for Pico, I got him to eat 12 partially thawed frozen green beans!!! So, do you think I can reintroduce the rest of the veggies or is it best to stick with the green beans for a few days? I am just happy to have those in his belly The littlest things in life make me feel like dancing!!!! Thanks everyone for all the good info and CaptV, it takes a big person to admit they were wrong in an action or behavior so hats off to you!!! You have certainly earned my respect And Germain certainly has too in his response to you Way to go folks!!!! Beardie loving people ROCK!!!!
Pumpkin this has been one interesting thread in many ways


s

 

[PumpkinJelly]

PicosParent: Aw! That's cute. Feeding Green Beans to the two Do they really like green beans? is that a good staple? If it is I'd like to try it with my two.

Germain: I like the smiley

CaptainVimes: WE WANT YOU BACK! (I am sorry about your situation as well. I wish you only the best)

 

[Valerie]

Well darn, I had something to say but I don't it will compare to what has been said about if beardies love us or not. But since I had thought about it last night and it is on mind I will say it anyway.
I wonder if animals have their own way of loving us. What I mean is that people believe dogs and cats have the capacity to love us. In yet,in one of the opinions is that our beardies know who feeds them, 'likes us," becomes familiar with us, is used to a habit and etc. But is that not like dogs and cats?
I don't believe any animal can love us like a human to a human. But I beleive animals can love us in a animal way which is love but not to highest degree as humans to humans.

Example, I don't think my beardie would give up her life for mine { of course, I don't know if my hubby would either} :roll: Things like this but I do know my beardie would perfer to be with me then anyone else but so does my dog and our cat.
I know my beardie looks to me for food so does my cat and dog, my beardie seems to be happy when she sees me and watches me. So does my dog and cat. There are a lot of similarities.
But at the same time my children know who feeds them and like to be with me but we share a different love.
I think Sizzle, my beardie loves me but in her animal special way. I do like the unconditional way she loves me compared to the human members of my family, like I said it is a different love.
Does this make sense? :?

 

[Germ]

like I said it is a different love.
Does this make sense? :?

It makes a lot of sense, it's all interpretation. I know my BDs depend on me & have their own little ways of showing what I interpret as appreciation. Whatever works for you.

@PP ~ As far as the Green Beans thing goes, I'm glad it worked for you so far anyway, I generally feed them for a day or 2, then introduce half & half of the regular staple & beans, then back to their regular diet. But I would allow them to thaw completely first. Just running them under the tap for a few seconds seems to work quite well.

@PJ ~ I replied to PP about her having problems with getting Pico back into eating it's greens. I had found that when mine would go off their greens for a few days, that if I introduced green beans, almost invariably, if they weren't prepping for Brumation, that they would eat them and re-spark their interest in greens. As far as using it as a staple food, I wouldn't. While green beans have a little calcium in them, they are mostly moisture & moderately high in oxalates. But as a periodic change up or treat along with the above mentioned method of 'Tricking' them to take to the greens again, which generally seems to work very well, they are great. Otherwise, there are much better choices out there for staple foods.

@PP ~ Here's one for your dancing ...

Have a good one folks,
Germain

 

[PumpkinJelly]

Germain - Fiz and KD (my Beardies) haven't been eating their greens, actually, so it's a coincidence that you mentioned this to Pico. I'm going to try and give them a green bean. I've been giving them their regulars (collard green, mustard green, squash, and shredded carrot as a treat) but they have been leaving them untouched (KD has been eating a piece or two of his salads, but other than that, ignores them completely). Fiz used to chow down on his salad, practically inhaling it like a vacuum, but now he uses his bowl as a climbing toy and acts like there's no food in there whatsoever. Fiz has a soft side for carrots, though. He'll eat those no matter what, but since they're only okay as a treat, he can't have them all of the time. KD absolutely LOVES squash, but Fiz ignores it. It's so weird how they both like different things. I even once shredded half a baby carrot, and then mixed it up with a small bowl of collards and left it in Fiz's tank as his meal. When I came back, every single shred of carrot had been licked off, and every single collard green piece was still there. They're so tricky! I'm going to try the green bean trick!

 

[diamc]

So great to see that this thread did a complete turn around, thanks all. Happy New Year!

 

[PumpkinJelly]

Germain:

YOU SIR, ARE A MIRACLE WORKER!

I could not believe my eyes when I put a small piece of green bean in front of Fiz's face, and he ate it! I was ready to start dancing! He ate about three pieces, and KD ate 5 (KD will eat anything if it tastes good and looks yummy!) I'm going to give Fiz some shredded carrot as a treat to praise him for eating something other than crickets!

I left a two pieces in each of their side of the tank, and Fiz's are untouched (of course, my stubborn tiny boy) and KD's are gone (of course, my easygoing big boy).

 

[PicosParent]

So great to see that this thread did a complete turn around, thanks all. Happy New Year!

Me too!!!!!!!! And Happy New Year to you as well

I love my dancing banana Germain, Thanks!!! Pumpkin can borrow it now to dance as she too said she wants to dance
Pumpkin I had put a comment the other day on here about Pico not eating his veggies and asked that people send me a private message about what to do.
Germain, I had run them under warm water so they were pretty much all thawed. He has never touched any frozen veggies if I try to warm them so I do rinse them in warm water and cup them in my hand. I guess using Muttly as a competitor for food works well too LOL

 

[PumpkinJelly]

Pico: I must've skipped your post about the veggies. Sorry! But I just happened to have some fresh green beans in my fridge, so I split one green bean up and divided the pieces between Fiz and KD. I'm going to give them a small salad of green beans tomorrow morning (Just half a green bean each) to spark their appetites for the next salad. Yes! I was ready to do the banana dance!

Diamc: Yes, I'm very pleased, too. A little while ago I was like "If things don't calm down soon a moderator is going to shut down the thread or something!" But luckily everyone resolved their conflicts

Germ: LOVE THE DANCIN' BANANA!