Brumation or Gravid??

[clyde612]

Hi there!

Clyde's behavior has been changing and I am at a dilema for what to do.

Important info:
Lighting is good (new t5 UVB10.0 mounted inside and 100W basking lamp)
Temps are good (95-100 basking, around/below 80 on cool side)
New enclosure since about 2 weeks ago (120 gal)
Probably female
12 months old

So he has been digging in the corner of his hide (which is on the hot side) in the morning probably about 30 minutes after lights go on. He will crawl in there and dig for like 10 minutes and then basically sleep all day long. Sometimes in the evening he will go get on his log on the cool side of the tank and sleep there, only to crawl back into the bigger hide in the morning. He is not basking and hasn't pooped for over a week now, about 8 days. Yesterday I put him under the basking lamp and he stayed there basking (mouth opened at one point so warm enough to digest and all; not too warm either about 95-103) until he fell asleep. And the day before that I gave him a warm bath. He got 3 roaches yesterday but none today or the day before yesterday. I've offered salad every day but no interest. Due to the lack of basking I have been feeding him less. He will still eat roaches, but it takes him longer to become interested, and I can't get him to eat his salads (for about the last few days). I was told to lay off the feeding a bit so he hasn't been fed today, also because he is napping in the hide. I'm worried about him not getting enough food but I don't want to stress his digestive system. The digging in the morning is pretty intense and wakes me up but only lasts about 15 minutes and that's it for the whole day––I'm also worried he could be gravid. I read somewhere that is he had eggs that he would be eating a lot and be restless, which is not the case. Currently he is getting 13 hours of daylight and 11 hours of night. If it's possible he is gravid I want to do everything possible to avoid egg binding, should I be worried about making him a lay box? He has blankets to go under in his hide for now. Should I get an ultrasound?

So I feel like I could go two routes and I'm conflicted.

1. Assume he might be gravid:
make a lay box
keep checking for eggs and feeding roaches and calcium
try to get him to bask

or

2. Assume it's brumation:
lessen daytime hours
feed less
allow him to sleep without basking
hydrate ocationally

If I am to assume he is brumating I will really need some direction. How long should he go without being fed? What should I change the light times too? How slowly should I adjust light time differences? How often should I feed him? Should I make him wake up to be fed? Should I make him bask after feeding him? How often to I need to hydrate him (he's bad at drinking on his own)? Should I take him to the vet to rule out parasites?

Anyways I would really appreciate some more direction and opinions. I'm in the middle of finals right now so the earliest I could take him to a vet for tests is Monday (not what I wanted to do on his first birthday ).

 

[CooperDragon]

The behavior you're describing sounds pretty consistent with brumation. If that's the case, then he will slow his metabolism and not require much food. The other side of that is he won't burn much energy or lose much weight. This is normal for them. I would log his weight when he's awake so you can track it over time and make sure it stays fairly stable (as a trend, small day to day fluctuations are normal). Offer some water or small amount of food if he wants it, but it's OK if he isn't interested.

As far as egg laying goes, I could probably help determine gender if you can post some clear photos of him facing away with tail arched up. At a year old this should be pretty straightforward in most cases. Fool Proof way to Sex your bearded dragon I'd figure this out as the first step and go from there.

 

[clyde612]

I actually have sexed him and he’s female. When I got him I named him Clyde and I just still consider him a little boy lol.

I should sex him again though to be sure because last time I did it he was a baby.

 

[clyde612]

So on Friday he got up, basked, ran around, ate, basked again, and pooped. Since late Friday morning he has been in his hide asleep and has not come out at all. I woke him up briefly yesterday morning just to make sure he was okay.

Today is his first birthday <3 and I'm just letting him sleep rn since it seems like that is what he needs to do.

Where can I get a good guide on all of the dos and don'ts of brumation? I'm worried waking him up too often would mess up him metabolism but I want to make sure I am hydrating him and feeding him enough still. And I need to figure out how often to take him weight.

He hasn't eaten or drank (or woken up by himself) since Friday morning.

Also: I got a little poop sample that's in my fridge in case I wanted to take it to the vet to rule out parasites. Should I do that?

 

[KarrieRee]

poop sample must be w/ in 24 hrs -- info on brumation Behavior - Brumation in Bearded Dragons

 

[clyde612]

Thanks! He did eat 3 roaches on Friday morning. He basked after but not for long and he has been asleep since. So it’s been about 4 days and I just read in the link you sent about food rotting in their stomachs? How long does that take to happen? I’ll give him a bath tomorrow to warm him up for more digesting and hopefully a bowel movement. How worried should I be about food rotting in his stomach and causing an infection?

He seemed hungry but should I not feed him if he is going into full brumation?

 

[KarrieRee]

Thanks! He did eat 3 roaches on Friday morning. He basked after but not for long and he has been asleep since. So it’s been about 4 days and I just read in the link you sent about food rotting in their stomachs? How long does that take to happen? I’ll give him a bath tomorrow to warm him up for more digesting and hopefully a bowel movement. How worried should I be about food rotting in his stomach and causing an infection?

He seemed hungry but should I not feed him if he is going into full brumation?

They wont eat if they are in full brumation - they are in a deep sleep - I will have AHBD answer the question about the rotting food in the stomach I am curious to know as well as I am not sure about that --
@AHBD

 

[AHBD]

While it is best if their stomach is closer to empty at brumation time it's not always the way it goes. My dragons have gone in to brumation after eating and no harm has ever come of it. I don't know of any experiences that can prove the theory that dragons are dying if they have eaten before but it does make sense not to feed them very much if you notice brumation type behavior. I would not be worried , your dragon should be fine and you can leave the light schedule as usual.

 

[CooperDragon]

I've found that they just don't show much interest in eating when they go into brumation. I've offered an occasional snack and sometimes my guy will eat a bit of squash or drink some water, but it's never much. He does eventually poop, it's just at much longer intervals (usually weeks rather than daily). I've seen no ill effects from him having a little bit of food in his system, it just moves through more slowly. Aside from taking weight measurements and offering occasional water or snack, I pretty much let him be until he seems ready to wake back up. They don't seem to need much of anything while in brumation. Do keep an eye on weight though, as that's one of the few indicators you'll have that everything is OK - stable weight over time. I typically see only about 5% body weight loss over a few months in most years. They then tend to lose a bit more when they go into the hyperactive phase after brumation, then gain it back when they slow down and start eating regularly again. This is just based off of my observations of one dragon though.

 

[clyde612]

Okay, thanks for the info! He only started full brumation on Friday and I weighed him today and he was 490 grams. Seems a bit heavy for his size but he’s not over weight so maybe my scale is off? I woke him up for a bath and now i’m giving him window time which he seems to be enjoying? I was going to put him back if he tried to nap but he is awake now, I wanted to see how interested he was in food and he was quite interested in the roaches and ate them up quick.

Why does he have an appetite if he’s been brumating? Are some just that way?

Anyways I’m wondering if I should feed him a little more or cap it at 2 roaches. He still hasn’t pooped out the 3 roaches from Friday morning.

Lastly, his hide is on the warm side because that’s where it has always been. His body is still coolish to the touch sleeping in his hide but the top of the hide is his basking spot. Do I need to move his hide to the cool side? I don’t want to stress him out by rearranging the tank.

 

[clyde612]

I tried offering kale, no interest but that is typical unless it’s copped up with zucchini. And then I tried offering green beans which he LOVES and he was also very interested. I’m confused on if i should be feeding him since he’s hungry. If I hadn’t of woken him up today he wouldn’t have eaten.

 

[clyde612]

Since he has an appetite, how often should I wake him up for bathing so that he can digest/poop? Should I be worried about his appetite being high? He does not stop sleeping unless I wake him up.

 

[KarrieRee]

Since he has an appetite, how often should I wake him up for bathing so that he can digest/poop? Should I be worried about his appetite being high? He does not stop sleeping unless I wake him up.

Is he not waking up on his own to eat? If he isn't then don't feed him- how long has been this way? Sleeping?

 

[clyde612]

Is he not waking up on his own to eat? If he isn't then don't feed him- how long has been this way? Sleeping?

He has been sleeping without waking up on his own for 8 days now. I woke him up on Wednesday for a bath and water and he had a strong appetite so I let him eat. I didn't try to force him, you can see in the photos that he was very interested in green beans.

 

[KarrieRee]

He has been sleeping without waking up on his own for 8 days now. I woke him up on Wednesday for a bath and water and he had a strong appetite so I let him eat. I didn't try to force him, you can see in the photos that he was very interested in green beans.

Interesting see if he comes out on his own - what does he do after he eats does he go and basks?