Beardie not eating

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m7ak

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My beardie hasnt been eating much at all lately. She has hardly ever at any greens or vegies. She also is not deficating regulary anymore. It has been over 7 days since she pooped. I fed her a pinky a while ago and thats when things started to change. I took her to the vet and the vet did a physical and said she looks to be in good health, is very attentive and doesnt appear to have any digestive issues. I did not have a blood test done. What is going on with my dragon. i am concered she might starve?

She is about 7 months old
She is about 14 inches long
i have her in a 55 gal tank that is about 12in wide by 18in tall and 5ft long
her basking area is around 90 degs during the day 70 deg at night
Her cool aera is about 75 to 80
She has been eating crickets and superworms for along time. I always have veggies and greens for her or baby food (that she wont eat). I dust the crickets regularly and feed the crickets greens.
i have her on papertowls and she gets a bath ever few days. i used to have her on sand but is been about 2 months since i changed to papertowls.
 

Embee

Gray-bearded Member
m7ak":29cb8 said:
My beardie hasnt been eating much at all lately. She has hardly ever at any greens or vegies. She also is not deficating regulary anymore. It has been over 7 days since she pooped. I fed her a pinky a while ago and thats when things started to change. I took her to the vet and the vet did a physical and said she looks to be in good health, is very attentive and doesnt appear to have any digestive issues. I did not have a blood test done. What is going on with my dragon. i am concered she might starve?

I'm sorry your beardie isn't feeling well. :( Given the circumstances (the pinkie feeding/problems since), she may very well be impacted. First, you want to reach underneath her and feel down the right side of her belly, from armpit to vent. Are there are any hard lumps that you can feel? If there is a lump, that is the impaction. Two things you can do for impaction that you will want to implement immediately: (1) Mix some unsweetened apple sauce with a bit of olive oil. Dab some on her nose, see if she'll lick it. This mixture can help pass the impaction from the inside. In addition to the "cocktail" you will want to (2) bathe her frequently (at least once a day if not more until she passes the impaction), in baby warm water up to shoulders for 20 or so minutes at a time. While bathing her, continue the arm to vent massage on the right side of her belly, in a downward motion.

her basking area is around 90 degs during the day 70 deg at night

What are you using to gauge basking temps? Are you using a digital with probe or temp gun that allows you to gauge the temps DIRECTLY under the heat bulb? If so, then you will want to get the basking temps up, as your juvenile beardie will be much better able to digest properly at temps of 105-110. A young beardie needs to be a temp of at least 95 degrees in order to digest properly, the higher temps of 105-110 being ideal for thorough digestion.

If you are gauging just the basking "side" of the tank, then likely your temps are higher under the actual heat bulb/on the basking surface. In any case, it would be prudent to find out the EXACT basking temps, and a digital with probe thermometer (or a temp gun) is a must for doing getting accurate information. (WalMart carries an inexpensive probe thermo for about $12. It's made by "Accurite.")

Which UVB type are you using (tube, coil, compact), and which brand (Repti-Glo, ReptiSun, ESU)?

She is about 7 months old
She is about 14 inches long
She has been eating crickets and superworms for along time. I always have veggies and greens for her or baby food (that she wont eat). I dust the crickets regularly and feed the crickets greens.
i have her on papertowls and she gets a bath ever few days. i used to have her on sand but is been about 2 months since i changed to papertowls.

Good that you removed the sand, but know also that certain feeders can cause impaction as well, that is why the rule: no feeders larger than the space between beardies eyes. For future reference, and to avoid impaction in the future: I would encourage you to hold off on superworms until your beardie is at least 16 inches. And I would hold off on pinkies indefinitely, as they are somewhat of a "questionable" feeder for beardeds in general, and especially for young beardeds who are not yet full grown. If your beardie doesn't prefer babyfood, then no worries, as fresh chopped veggies are better, and a more natural source of vegetation.

Here is a link to an excellent food resource list for dragons (do's and don'ts): http://www.beautifuldragons.503xtreme.com/Nutrition.html.

Please let us know about the temps/with what and how you are gauging them, and do please keep us posted on your dear girl there. Lots of support to you... I fully understand what it's like when beardie is not doing well.

Hang in there.

The best,
Em
 

m7ak

Member
Original Poster
I will have to check on the brand of day lamp. i think it is a reptiglo. The UVB lamp is a tube type and also have a night lamp that is almost like a black light that I leave on all the time to help keep the temps up.

I am using a digital thermometer with a probe that hangs about 4 inches below the bulb and about 2 inches off to the side of it on the glass. i am assuming that the temps directly under the day lamp are 5 to 10 degrees warmer???

I will check her belly and give her more frequent baths. As I said though she went to the vet about a month ago the vet said she didnt have any hard substances in her digestive track. This has been going on since before i took here to the vet. She just recently stopped deficating though. I knew the pinky was a bad idea. I kicked myself after i fed it to her. I appreciate your info. If you can think of anything else that might help please let me know.

Thank you for help.
 

m7ak

Member
Original Poster
Also i cant get her to eat any veggies since i got her. What i can i do to make her eat them?
 

Embee

Gray-bearded Member
m7ak":1f9b3 said:
I will have to check on the brand of day lamp. i think it is a reptiglo. The UVB lamp is a tube type and also have a night lamp that is almost like a black light that I leave on all the time to help keep the temps up.

You mention you use the black light for keeping temps up. What are you using as your main source of heat then, for daytime?

If your UVB tube is indeed, a ReptiGlo, I would get the exact name/number as soon as possible, as there is a ReptiGlo tube that has been causing issues for beardies (the 10.0). It has been linked to; lack of appetite, slow growth, poor UVB emissions/D3 synthesis/calcium processing, and eye issues. Please see this post for more information: viewtopic.php?f=34&t=101703&p=793076&hilit=ReptiGlo+10.0#p793076.

I am using a digital thermometer with a probe that hangs about 4 inches below the bulb and about 2 inches off to the side of it on the glass. i am assuming that the temps directly under the day lamp are 5 to 10 degrees warmer???

Great that you have a digital with probe, however in order to use it to beardie's best advantage, you will want to remove the probe from the glass and place it DIRECTLY onto the basking surface/under the basking light, and LEAVE IT IN PLACE FOR 45 MINUTES... then read temp. Let me know what you find out. I wonder if possibly the temps are a bit too high. In any case, this is the only way to truly know what is going on for beardie under the lamp.

I will check her belly and give her more frequent baths. As I said though she went to the vet about a month ago the vet said she didnt have any hard substances in her digestive track. This has been going on since before i took here to the vet. She just recently stopped deficating though. I knew the pinky was a bad idea. I kicked myself after i fed it to her. I appreciate your info. If you can think of anything else that might help please let me know.

Good on the belly check/frequent baths. I noted that you'd taken her to the vet, but assumed the pinkie was given sometime after that. Sorry, my mistake. In any case, as she is not pooping or eating well, there is definitely an issue going on. When was the last time she ate, and what was it that she ate, how much? Could simply be the lack of poop is directly related to the lack of food of course, but let's see if we can get beardie up and eating again. (I've kicked myself a few times on this beardie journey, I must tell you) *sigh* Hang in there!

m7ak":1f9b3 said:
Also i cant get her to eat any veggies since i got her. What i can i do to make her eat them?

There are some tips I can offer you certainly, but right now your biggest concern is getting some protein into her, getting her back up and going/growing, and then you can address the veggies. Seven months is still young, plenty of time to get her eating veggies. Let's for now, concentrate on dealing what's ailing her.

Also, now that I have a more clear picture of your situation, I'd like to re-address the babyfood. It sounded in your first post as if this was a typical offering for her, and I assumed pureed veggies? What kind of babyfood are you offering? One thing that is usually suggested when beardies aren't eating is to get a little chicken babyfood, mixed with some water, and dab a bit on beardies nose, see if beardie will lick it. This can be a way of getting some quick protein into your dragon. And indeed, you'll want to up the baths in any case as during a time when beardie isn't eating well, it's especially important to keep her hydrated.

Let me know what you find out on the temp, the lighting and such. In the meantime, I'm going to get a moderator to come and take a look here, as she could very well notice something I didn't, and offer some more ideas for your girl there.

The best,
Em
 

Embee

Gray-bearded Member
Sounds good. Also, I've put a PM into Diane (diamc/moderator) for you. She may very well have some further insights/advice in helping your dragon.

The best,
Em
 

m7ak

Member
Original Poster
The day bulb i have is a Daylight Blue Reptile Bulb mgfd by Zoo Med Labratories, Inc. 150 watt incandescent, Full spectrum daylight bulb. Also says on box provides UVA wavelenght that stimulates normal feeding behavior in reptiles.

The UVB bulb reads on the bulb "Desert Reptile 7% UVB" dose not state a mfg. I just discovered last night after really looking at the UVB tube that in the fine print on the plastic housing it states " for UVB and UVA light remove lens" I did that so hopefully that will help. Maybe she wasnt getting the correct amount of UVB.

The Night bulb doesnt have any info on it and i threw away the box a while ago. I got it at Petco and it is 60 watt night bulb. Thats all i know abuot it right now. It stays on 24/7.

The Temp on her log is 109 deg. She has no signs of burns or anything. Is it to hot? She normally dosent sit directly under the lamp. She has another log that is about 6 inches off to the side of the direct light that she lays on. As of the last week she has been laying under her rock that is no where near the warm temps. Could she be going into dormancy?

I did the belly message and there is a spot about half way down her belly that is sowewhat solid. I gave her a bath and messged her belly on the right side. I will keep doing that.

The last thing she ate before last night was a few crickets. I think she is eating a couple everyday. She doesnt eat them immediatly it has been taking her awhile to become interested in them. She wont chase them imediatly like she used to, and it is only a couple. She did eat two superworms last night. I know you said i should stay away from the worms but it was the only thing that sparked her interest. I figured some protein is better than none???
 

Embee

Gray-bearded Member
m7ak":e44b4 said:
The day bulb i have is a Daylight Blue Reptile Bulb mgfd by Zoo Med Labratories, Inc. 150 watt incandescent, Full spectrum daylight bulb. Also says on box provides UVA wavelenght that stimulates normal feeding behavior in reptiles.

Indeed, some reptiles can use blue bulbs, however beardies require BRIGHT WHITE LIGHT for basking. You can use a simple household incandescent so long as it provides bright white light and proper temps (105-110 basking, 95-90 mid, 80 cool side). Pet stores of course carry specific basking type bulbs which can also be used, but they tend to be a bit more pricey. I find a good household flood puts out more heat per watt than a regular incandescent.

The UVB bulb reads on the bulb "Desert Reptile 7% UVB" dose not state a mfg. I just discovered last night after really looking at the UVB tube that in the fine print on the plastic housing it states " for UVB and UVA light remove lens" I did that so hopefully that will help. Maybe she wasnt getting the correct amount of UVB.

As to wattage, what is the SIZE of your tank? A 150w bright white incandescent will put out a ton of heat, and so I'm thinking when you switch, you would be able to use a smaller wattage bulb unless your tank is very large (75 gallons or more).

The Desert Reptile 7% is made by ESU, and it has been linked to poor UVB emissions, which fail to stimulate proper appetite in beardies. Typically what happens is that beardie does ok for awhile and the bulb then runs down VERY quickly and fail to offer proper D3 synthesis/calcium procressing. Even more important to note at present is that it has been linked to EYE ISSUES, and in removing the plastic covering this condition can hasten. My best advice is to turn off the UVB light immediately, and permanently. The ESU fixture (I believe) will house a ReptiSun 10.0 tube which is a much more preferable and most importantly SAFE bulb for your dragon. Here is a link to a ReptiSUN 10.0 tube at a VERY good price: http://www.petmountain.com/product/reptile-fluorescent-bulbs/504983/zoo-med-reptisun-10.0-uvb-bulb.html. Beardie is better off withOUT UVB (temporarily) rather than having poor UVB. Just keep a good basking light going (see above). This is a very common scenario I'm afraid as there are simply way too many UVB lights out there that are not only poor in quality, but that can actually harm beardies. We went through a similar time with our beardie, having used a Zilla Desert Series compact light. Out of curiosity, how old is your UVB light? You will need to replace the ReptiSun 10.0 tube, every 5-6 months.

The Night bulb doesnt have any info on it and i threw away the box a while ago. I got it at Petco and it is 60 watt night bulb. Thats all i know abuot it right now. It stays on 24/7.

Ideally, for nighttime heat you would be using ceramic heat emitter (CHE) as it produces heat, but not kind of light, red, black or otherwise. That said, if your room temps do not go below 65 degrees at night, no supplemental heat is needed. If you need extra heat/light during the day, a smaller wattage white bulb is best.

The Temp on her log is 109 deg. She has no signs of burns or anything. Is it to hot? She normally dosent sit directly under the lamp. She has another log that is about 6 inches off to the side of the direct light that she lays on. As of the last week she has been laying under her rock that is no where near the warm temps. Could she be going into dormancy?

At 7 months, she is too young for brumation, and additionally, it's not the time of year for it (you're in the states, no?) so it's important to look to husbandry and see what can be done there.

So you took the temp directly under the lamp then and it was 109? 109 is fine (basking should run 105-110 for juveniles), but being that she tends to stray from it, the heat could probably come down a notch, but not much more. Typically the basking surface would offer a "range" of temps... a large enough surface that she can move around from hot to less hot temps but still being within the range of proper basking temps (100-110). However, my strongest feeling here is that she is avoiding the UVB, with good reason. Our beardie did the very same thing when we were using the compact, hiding most of the day. When we swapped it out for a ReptiSun tube, she was out and about within HOURS of switching the bulb, and her appetite came up incrementally as well. In the meantime, by just turning off the 7% UVB for now, you might very well see her perk up a bit. Keep me posted.

Also, are you using calcium and vitamin supplements?

I did the belly message and there is a spot about half way down her belly that is sowewhat solid. I gave her a bath and messged her belly on the right side. I will keep doing that.

Sounds like a good plan. In any case, as she is struggling in general, the extra hydration should be helpful to her.

The last thing she ate before last night was a few crickets. I think she is eating a couple everyday. She doesnt eat them immediatly it has been taking her awhile to become interested in them. She wont chase them imediatly like she used to, and it is only a couple. She did eat two superworms last night. I know you said i should stay away from the worms but it was the only thing that sparked her interest. I figured some protein is better than none???

Ideally superworms are better suited for dragons over 16 inches. Have you tried placing the chicken baby food on her nose? Being that she WILL eat some, but is sluggish about it, I again would look to the UVB source. It's a rather typical reaction to poor UVB, but of course other things may be at play here. By turning off the UVB light, she may perk up some and then with a new light (the ReptiSun 10.0 tube), you will likely see a turn around. Just keep a good bright white basking bulb burning in the meantime. :)

Lastly, it's never a bad idea to have a fecal done, to rule out parasites. If you can get her to poop, it might be a good opportunity to take a sample to the vet.

Please keep me posted on your dragon, and how the changes affect her behavior. :)

The best,
Em
 

m7ak

Member
Original Poster
My tank is 55 gallon. But it has high sides. I will change the blue lamp to a flood lamp or a bright white incandecent. My UVB light was bought with the dragon at Petco (6-7 months). I will turn the UVB off and get the reptile 10.0 coming. I hope this is the problem or at least a good portion of it. From what you described it might very well be. She was fine for about 5 months and then her behavior changed. She started hiding from the light off and on about 2 weeks ago. Now she hardly comes out from under her rock.

I am using calcuim powder to dust the crickets. I have vitamin pellets and vitamin powder but she doesnt eat the veggies so iam not sure how to get her to consume the vitamins?

I havent tried the chicken baby food yet. I am going to though.

The room temp is ussally about 68 to 70 deg.

What is husbandry?
This is my first Beardie so i am learning a lot as i go. I just hope Phil (my dragon) doesnt suffer much more because of my inexperience. Her name is Phil because we werent sure if she was a he or not. The Vet told me she was female.

Thank you for your help. i really needed it. I have spoke with many people and its apparent the the pet stores dont know anything.

Do you have a direct email? Or do you check the beardie ER posts all the time. I dont want to loose contact with you.
 

Embee

Gray-bearded Member
m7ak":6ad19 said:
My tank is 55 gallon. But it has high sides. I will change the blue lamp to a flood lamp or a bright white incandecent. My UVB light was bought with the dragon at Petco (6-7 months). I will turn the UVB off and get the reptile 10.0 coming. I hope this is the problem or at least a good portion of it. From what you described it might very well be. She was fine for about 5 months and then her behavior changed. She started hiding from the light off and on about 2 weeks ago. Now she hardly comes out from under her rock.

For a 55 gallon, you'll probably want either a 75w or 100w basking bulb... you may have to do some trial error, checking of temps to see what works well. I do hope the UVB is the issue as well... it sounds like a fairly typical scenario. Have you noticed Phil's eyes being closed more than normal?

I am using calcuim powder to dust the crickets. I have vitamin pellets and vitamin powder but she doesnt eat the veggies so iam not sure how to get her to consume the vitamins?

Great that you are dusting with calcium, 5 meals per week is the typical regimen. For vites, you can use a powdered version (like the calcium): http://www.petmountain.com/product/reptile-supplements/105551/rep-cal-ultrafine-calcium-with-vitamin-d3.html... dust 1 - 2 meals per week with vites. (I just use the vitamin powder on the days I don't use calcium).

I havent tried the chicken baby food yet. I am going to though.

Great. Let me know how it's goes.

The room temp is ussally about 68 to 70 deg.

That should be good in getting good consistent tank temps. Like I mentioned above, you might try to 75w, and then the 100w... see which one works best for you.
What is husbandry?

Sorry, just a fancy word for "tank set up." :mrgreen:

This is my first Beardie so i am learning a lot as i go. I just hope Phil (my dragon) doesnt suffer much more because of my inexperience. Her name is Phil because we werent sure if she was a he or not. The Vet told me she was female.

I hear ya. We did a bit of trail and error ourselves (as MANY of us here have done), but the good news is, our beardie is doing VERY well now. She is eating well, thriving and growing again. Your beardie being 14 inches, is a little on the small side, but not overly so (our girl is 9 months and 13 inches). The main thing is to provide an environment where she will be healthy, and you are well on your way to doing that. Beardies have an amazing ability to recover and thrive. Lots of good thoughts and support to you and Phil (GREAT name!).

Here is a link to reputable growth chart for reference: http://www.dachiu.com/beardeddragoncare/growthcharts.html.

Thank you for your help. i really needed it. I have spoke with many people and its apparent the the pet stores dont know anything.

*sigh* It's rather epidemic I'm afraid. Our first enclosure was just plain WRONG from top to bottom, and our beardie certainly let us know it. If it helps, you're far from alone in falling for the "pet store" line. Our second enclosure which thanks to bd.org carries all the "right stuff" cost of 1/2 of the original *much smaller* starter tank. :roll:

Do you have a direct email? Or do you check the beardie ER posts all the time. I dont want to loose contact with you.

You are MOST welcome. :) I check in regularly, but you can also PM me if you like (just hit on my screen name from any post here, and it will connect you to my profile which provides a link to PM). I'm happy to help. :D Rest assured, I will continue to check this thread until Phil is up and running again! :mrgreen:

The best, and please keep me posted on your girl.

Em
 

m7ak

Member
Original Poster
Her eyes are closed often.

How close does the UVB ReptiSun 10.0 need to be to Phil for him to benifit the UVB?
 

Embee

Gray-bearded Member
m7ak":42b81 said:
Her eyes are closed often.

How close does the UVB ReptiSun 10.0 need to be to Phil for him to benifit the UVB?

Ok, I'm not surprised but was hoping maybe it hadn't gotten that far. But if it helps, our dragon was experiencing the same and after a break from the UVB altogether and then the new ReptiSun tube, her eyes recovered fully. It may take some time after you turn off your ESU light for her eyes to be open more regularly, but usually within a few days (up to 7 or so), you'll see improvement. Have you turned out the light then, and has she had any reaction thus far?

For the ReptiSun, you will want Phil to be 6-8 inches from the bulb. If you can (I know the 55 gallon is a bit skinny), align the bulb at the basking end of the tank, with the basking bulb as follows:

___________tube
0 basking bulb

...so that beardie has benefit of both bulbs at once while basking; for optimum calcium procressing/D3 synthesis, digestion, etc. Also, the bright white light of the basking bulb will guard her eyes from the strong UVB rays. This is another reason that a blue bulb can cause issues. It may vary well provide UVA, but it doesn't provide the strength of bright light that helps in shielding beardie's eyes from the UVB, which even with a quality bulb like the ReptiSun, can be harsh.

I wanted to check with you again on the temps, and forgive me if this is rehashing old information/advice, but you are now laying the probe directly under the basking light, and leaving it for 45 minutes, yes? I'm sure you are, but wanted to check just to be safe. I was surprised the temp wasn't higher with a 150w bulb, but I believe the reason is probably because the blue bulbs don't put out as much heat. At any rate, thanks for humoring me. :wink:

The best,
Em
 

Embee

Gray-bearded Member
Hi,

Just thought I'd check in... how is Phil doing today?

I'm going to be off-line for the remainder of the day, but I'll be sure to check back in tomorrow sometime. If you need any immediate help in the meantime, you're welcome to PM Diane (*diamc*). She is familiar with your situation, and I'm sure would be happy to help out in any way she can.

Aside from that, I'll check in tomorrow and see how things are going with Phil, or answer any questions that may have come up between now and then. :)

The best,
Em
 

m7ak

Member
Original Poster
I removed the ESU light yesterday at about 4:45pm and I did not see any reaction all night. She didnt move from under rock. My wife stopped by the house today told me that she was back on her favorite basking log that is not directly under the light (just slightly off to the side). She hasent been on this log for more than a week now. I will know more when I get home after work.

I am replacing the blue light tonight with a hundred watt flood lamp and will see how she takes to it. Ill make sure to check temps again too.

Yes I checked the temp directly under the lamp in her basking area for 45 min. It was 109 deg. Her favorite spot is about 5 inches to the side and about 4 inches higher on another log. The temp there is slightly less.

Ill update in the morning.

Thanks
 
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