BD Cant Walk - Gout?

[KhaleeDragon]

I'm not quite sure whether this belongs in the "Beardie ER" section, but this is urgent to me.

*I am a new BD owner*

So about a week ago, I noticed that my bearded dragon's back left foot was slightly swollen. Although I did mentally note it, I thought nothing of it. I had figured that one of her toes might have gotten stuck/twisted in the threads of her repti-carpet, and as a result her foot was swollen. I now know, that this was not the case.

The day after I noticed her swollen foot, I took her outside to get some natural sunlight. After setting her in the grass she started walking around, but it seemed like she was limping or hobbling. I brought her back inside and tried to see which foot was bothering her. I then noticed that she didn't really put weight on her back legs. She would stand on them when she walked, but when she stopped they would splay out behind her. After I noticed this, I did a test with her where I would gently pull, touch, and squeeze her legs and toes. Normally she hates it when I mess with her feet in any way-she would always pull away from me. But this time she was only touchy with her front left leg. I could do anything with her other feet, and she did not care at all. This really got my attention, but I still didn't think it was something urgent. I kept a close eye on her for the following few days, and noticed that her limping/hobbling was getting slightly worse with each day. She was also getting lethargic. I informed my parents about this, but we don't have the time to take her to a vet at the moment (we are in the middle of the process of moving).

Note~ I took my BD (Khaleesi) on a visit up to the new house a few days ago. She did wondrously on the car ride here (it was about 9 hours). We have been here for 3 days now, and will be leaving soon. Since we couldn't bring her cage up, I have her set up in a temporary cat carrier. I have kept all of my husbandry the same. I also keep the flap to the carrier open in case she wants to get away from her lights, since the carrier is too small to have a cool side.

Today was when I noticed that something was really wrong. This morning when I turned on her lights, I saw that she was lying flat on her stomach with both of her front legs behind her (photo below).

She is not putting any weight on any of her legs, and when she wants to move, she slithers like a snake. It almost seems like her legs are paralyzed, but when I pick her up, she will get uncomfortable and somewhat flail her legs in the air. So she can move them (somewhat), but it just seems like they are too weak to use?



Yesterday I took pictures of her feet and legs, although today they seem more swollen than what they were in the pictures.

( ^ front right ^ )

( ^ front left ^ )

Also reference her full body photo (the first picture I posted), although I am not sure if you can see how swollen her legs are in it. I will post better leg pictures and a full body picture tomorrow.



Husbandry

About Khaleesi
I bought Khaleesi from PetSmart on October 24th. She is about 9 months old from when I bought her, and she is 14 inches long.

Lights and Heat
UVB- Exo Terra Repti Glo 10.0 Desert Terrarium Lamp 26W
UVA- All Living Things Reptile Neodymium Basking Bulb
Both UVB and UVA are aprox. 6 inches from basking spot.
Night Light- All Living Things Infrared Spot Bulb (I rarely use this light)
Hot side of tank- 95º-100º
Cool side of tank- 75º-80º
(The temperatures for the hot and cool side, are used from the thermometers in her tank, which is in the original house. As said above, I am visiting the new house we are moving into. I have her set up in a temporary cat carrier, which I know is a lot more closed in than her tank-therefore hotter. But I keep the side flap of the carrier open so she can get away from the heat if she wants.)

Tank Setup

Her tank is a 20 gallon. She has a cream water bowl, a grey food bowl(hidden behind water bowl), a mossy log with hides she can not fit into anymore, a large corner rock with a cave, and a smooth branch from our lemon tree between the log and corner rock. Flooring is repti-carpet.

Carrier Setup
(I will post photo tomorrow)
Flooring is repti-carpet. I have her grey food dish and a small hide/basking spot in the carrier. I do not have a water dish in the carrier, but I make sure to give her a small 2 minute bath every day. I make sure that she drinks a few drops off my finger while she is in the bath as well. (I normally only give her a bath a few times a week, for about 15 minutes. But I want to make sure that she stays hydrated, because she doesn't have a water dish in the carrier.)

Food
Crickets- I feed her once a day, as many as she will eat in 5-10 minutes. She normally will eat between 30-50. The crickets are smaller than the space between her eyes. I dust the crickets with a calcium supplement that includes D3 once week.
Superworms- I started feeding her one superworm a day about a week ago. I cut their head off before I feed them to her.
Greens- Dandelion greens and mustard greens daily. Carrots and mulberry leaves occasionally.(I pick the mulberry leaves from a tree in my backyard.)

Fecal
She goes to the bathroom on a regular basis-once every 1-2 days.

I took a picture of her poo about a week ago because I had noticed a strange orange color to a part of her urate. (is the orange tinge normal by the way?) I will post another picture of her poo next time she goes to the bathroom.

Previous Problems
When I first got khaleesi I did the best research I could on BDs, but the information on how important the UVB light was, went right over my head. At the time I had only thought that it was an "optional" light. And it wasn't until a few months later, that I started noticing twitches in her back legs. I was ignorant as to how this was a sign of MBD, and so I only did light research as to why her legs were twitching. The importance of the UVB light still evaded me and so her twitching went on for about another month. It wasn't until she went full-on-seizure that I realized this was serious. I then did massive research, realized she was getting MBD, and bought a UVB light for her. (could this have caused future problems?)

I have posted all the information that I can think of at the moment. If you have any more information you want to know, please ask.

What is wrong with my bearded dragon? I have done some research but I’m not sure what she has. Could it be MBD again? Could she have hyperglycemia? Could it be hypothiaminosis because her greens are in the fridge too long? Is it also a possibility that her Repti Glo UVB is doing this? (I have read on this site that Repti Glo has been known to cause problems.)

I am very angry with myself that I let it get this far without posting on this site. I am also frustrated that we cant take her to a vet anytime soon. I am really worried about my baby. Please, if you have any answers, suggestions, or questions...post below.

 

[destiny1998]

Hi. I'm sorry she's having issues. You don't need to cut the heads off superworms. I never do and it's an old wife's tail that they eat through the stomach. Those neodymium lights have a coating that bother their eyes. She needs a bright white basking light. I use a halogen flood bulb. She needs a better uvb. I use a reptisun 10.0 tube. The swelling and not moving can be a sign of mbd. How are you taking the temps? Keep putting her in the natural sun hopefully that'll help.

 

[KhaleeDragon]

There is a lot of controversy about super worms. I just want to be rather safe than sorry. When she gets bigger I may stop cutting the heads off, though.

I will talk to my parents and see if we can upgrade her lights. I know I can get a halogen flood bulb from Lowes. But unfortunately the nearest one is an hour and a half away, and I'm not sure my parents will be willing to make such a trip. Do you think there is any other place that may supply halogen floodlights? Or do you think I can just buy an
Exo Terra Intense Basking Spot Light from PetSmart?

Also as for the Reptisun 10.0 tube, the carrier she is in is fabric. So it cannot sit on top of the carrier. So I don't think I will be able to buy this until we get back to original house, which is where her tank is.

As for the temperatures- I take them using the one thermometer in the picture of her tank setup. We bought the one, and we never got a second one. I would just switch the side that the thermometer was on, once every few days. (I know I need the second thermometer, but we just haven't gotten it.)

Also, it is a lot more cloudy here than at the original house. But I am going to set her up in a bird cage and have that sit outside so she can get her natural sunlight.

Thank you so much for the response, destiny.

 

[KhaleeDragon]

Below are better pictures of her legs, as well as pictures of the cat carrier. She also just had a poo, and it has that orange tinge to the urate agian, is this normal?

Also I read somewhere that it could be gout? if it is how do I treat it?

 

[destiny1998]

Hi. Thanks for answering. That intense basking light from pet smart should work. Also you need a better thermometer. A temp gun or a digital with a wire probe are the only ways to get the best accurate readings. When are you going to be home? Can you order the reptisun 10.0 tube before you get home so when you get there you can use it right away? Usually the only way to tell if it's mbd or gout is a blood test. They check the uric acid levels. You can try some black cherry juice. That might help with the swelling.

 

[KhaleeDragon]

I just went to the store and bought the black cherry juice concentrate (photos below) and distilled water for her. I will be heading home within 3 days (hopefully sooner). Also there is a PetSmart that carries the reptisun 10.0 tube, very close to my original house. So as soon as I get home I will go there and buy it.

Also from what I've read, I'm fairly certain its gout. She hasn't had any leg twitches like they normally have when its MBD. Her legs have just been swollen, and she cant walk properly. I think I may have been overloading her with crickets. Also, I have a milliliter syringe-how much of the cherry juice should I give her, and how often?(she is 14 inches long and weighs 170 grams) In the meantime, I will be giving her distilled water. (if she doesn't have gout, I don't think this can hurt her.)

 

[AHBD]

Hi there....I'm fairly certain that this is calcium [ MBD ] related. Her history of no UVB for months during an important growing phase makes it almost certain. Aside from getting the Reptisun bulb, take her out in the sun ASAP, you don't need a bird cage but just set with her in the grass. A bird cage is O.K but the plastic or metal may heat up on the bottom so be careful. She'd probably enjoy the grass more..

 

[Rankins]

The back ankles do look a little puffy. It could be gout, but there might be something else going on as well. Sounds like it could be also be early mbd. Calcium is very important for muscles to work properly. About the only way to know for sure if it is gout is asperation of fluild from the joints. A uric acid blood level could also give the vet an idea if uric acid could be precipitating out into the joints...but it isn't definitive for gout.
Lay off the insects, just offer calcium rich greens. Alfalfa meal can be sprinkled on the greens for protein. Insects proteins break down into uric acid as they are processed. Its hard on the kidneys as well...its a big molocule that can cause renal tubual damage. Alfalfa meal is good for gout and is a plant protein that does not cause uric acid issues.
If your able to get to the vet it is reasonable to take the dragon there. It may need allopurinol if its a gout issue.
(Edit: I agree with AHBD on this, It does sound like MBD....maybe gout as well.)

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

I agree, it sounds more like metabolic bone disease related than direct gout.
Though, it can manifest as pseudo gout which is caused by husbandry & supplementation issues but can be reversed. Whereas visceral gout is full blown gout with renal damage & is unable to be reversed, just treated. A blood test would help in revealing uric acid levels.
I realize that some do use the Reptiglo 10 tube bulb & have not had any issues, but there have been a good number of people who have used them & had dragons develop metabolic bone disease. They are not as strong as the Reptisun 10 tube bulbs or the Arcadia D3 12% tubes, either.
If you can get her in direct sunlight, daily, that should help out. I would also try getting her on some type of liquid calcium, too for getting her levels back up.
When do you anticipate on getting back to your other house so she can be into her tank again?
The Black cherry juice is very good, so go ahead & give 1ml daily for her right now. She should really like the flavor of it too. If it is a slight case of gout, no matter what has caused it, then hopefully you can head it off quickly without having to get her on any meds right now.

Tracie

 

[KhaleeDragon]

Thank you all for the responses.

Generally she seems to be doing a bit better. She can walk and stand up a bit on her front legs. Back legs are still the same though. She also seems to be a bit less lethargic.

@AHBD
I was worried that it had caused future problems... So, if this is the case, should I be giving her more calcium? I will start setting her in the grass, instead, as well.

@Rankins
I only gave her 3 crickets today, and made sure she had a lot of dandelion greens and mustard greens. I will see if I can get some alfalfa meal tomorrow.

@Drache613
When I bought the black cherry liquid I had also gotten some liquid calcium. The only concern that I have with the liquid calcium, is that it has magnesium. I'm not sure if this is alright for her, Since this liquid calcium is intended for human children, not reptiles. I get back to my house in 2 or 3 days.

 

[AHBD]

I don't know if that calcium designed for humans will hurt her, the dosing would be a guess so it may be best not to use it. There are liquid calciums made just for reptiles, Drache sells it on her website. If she's eating, just put your powdered calcium on her food as usual and get her in the sun and get the good uvb bulb as mentioned. That should help out a good deal along with the cherry extract if there's a touch of gout there as well. She will hopefully bounce back, she sure is a sweet little thing.

 

[KhaleeDragon]

@AHBD
I have found a nearby pet store that sells some reptile liquid calcium. In the meantime I will give her the powdered. She has been sitting out in the grass with me for about an hour, now.

Again, thank you all for the amazing help!

 

[AHBD]

O.K, that's great ! Hopefully she'll respond well to the calcium, sun + cherry juice.

 

[Rankins]

A cheap source of calcium is powdered TUMMS. Its just calcium carbonate with some binders, coloring, and flavoring. Just gotta grind it up in a coffee grinder and its ready to use.

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

Well that sounds great she seems to be doing a little better right now. I bet she loves the black cherry juice, too.
I would just use some powdered calcium for her instead of the liquid calcium with magnesium. That may have an effect on absorption.
I'm happy to hear she is standing some now, too. I hope she makes a full recovery. Let us know how she is doing.

Tracie