BABY BEARDIE LETHARGIC, NOT EATING REGULARLY
- Thread starter klb2sweet
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That's much better! Poor little guy does look wiped out though. No red light at night, if yur house is room temp. at night [ upper 60's ] he'll be fine. Light disturbs sleep. And if you could slide the screen over so it's not obscuring the uvb bulb he'll get better exposure to the uvb rays.
So was he on a parasite med. for 14 days ? If this is the case , please don't go back to that vet. A baby dragon can not take those strong drugs....it's a wonder that he is still eating anything at all. He is very sick from the meds, so please just offer food + oral hydration and no more stressful baths. If he drank from them, then a bath very other day but otherwise this is very stressful to him.
So was he on a parasite med. for 14 days ? If this is the case , please don't go back to that vet. A baby dragon can not take those strong drugs....it's a wonder that he is still eating anything at all. He is very sick from the meds, so please just offer food + oral hydration and no more stressful baths. If he drank from them, then a bath very other day but otherwise this is very stressful to him.
He's not going to perk up or start eating until you get your 10.0 T8 UVB tube UNDERNEATH THE MESH LID!!! Seriously, the mesh blocks 40% of the UVB/UVA light emitted by that T8 strength UVB tube, and unfortunately a T8 UVB tube is the weaker of the two types available (T5 being the much stronger), so #1) You can not afford to have 40% of the UVB light blocked from a T8 strength UVB tube, he's still getting essentially NO UVB light!!! You can poke 4 holes in the mesh and use some of those long, plastic Zip Ties to attach the entire fixture to the underside of the mesh, OR JUST GET RID OF THE MESH LID ALL TOGETHER OR PUSH IT TO THE SIDE AND REST THE UVB TUBE FIXTURE ACROSS THE TANK!!! Be sure to keep both the UVB tube and the bright white basking bulb right alongside each other and both directly over his basking spot. Moving that mesh lid over a bit to give him direct, unobstructed UVB light is not going to effect the temps. AND PLEASE BE SURE THAT BOTH LIGHTS ARE ON FOR AT LEAST 14 HOURS EVERY SINGLE DAY, AND ARE ON FOR AT LEAST 2 HOURS IN THE MORNING BEFORE FEEDING HIM, AND AT LEAST 2 HOURS IN THE EVENING AFTER YOU FEED HIM, SO HE CAN DIGEST HIS FOOD!
I wouldn't expect him to perk up and become active OR gain an appetite and start eating his live insects until you give him 14 hours of unobstructed UVB light, and the UVB tube at no further away from him than 5-6", 4" is better with that T8 UVB tube. I know it seems like such a petty little detail, but you must realize that bearded dragons are desert reptiles that get strong, intense, bright UVB and UVA light all day long every day in their natural environment. This is absolutely crucial to them being able to manufacture their own vitamin D3, which in turn allows them to absorb and process/use any and all nutrition (calories, fat, carbs, protein, etc.) and any vitamins and minerals, including calcium. So quite literally, without him getting 14 hours of unobstructed, direct UVB and UVA light every single day he is not manufacturing any vitamin D3, so in turn he's not been absorbing or processing/using any of the nutrition or vitamins/minerals that you've been giving him or that he's eaten on his own, he just excretes it out. So if he's been absorbing no nutrition, he certainly will be lethargic, weak, and not have any appetite at all.
For now just move the mesh lid off to the side, as AHBD already mentioned, exposing the unobstructed UVB tube to him, and making sure you arrange his tank so that his main basking spot/platform is directly underneath BOTH the unobstructed UVB tube AND the basking bulb (they must be right next to each other), as this is how you duplicate natural sunlight as closely as possible for him, so he gets both UVB and UVA light, along with other essential UV rays, and heat. Also be sure that his main basking spot is putting him with at least 5", as I said 4" is better, UVB tubes don't emit any heat so he won't burn himself, and a Reptisun 10.0 T8 UVB tube will not hurt his eyes or skin, so the closer you can get him to that unobstructed, exposed UVB tube the better. Allow both lights on for 14 hours a day, and about an hour or two after you slide the mesh lid to the side and set up his lighting correctly with the UVB light not being blocked anymore, use your probe thermometer to check the main basking spot surface temperature again, just to make sure it is still between 105-110 degrees...BE SURE TO LET THE LIGHTS IN THE NEW POSITION WITH THE MESH LID PUSHED TO THE SIDE FOR AT LEAST AN HOUR TO LET THE TANK GET TO THE TEMPS IT WILL NOW BE, AND ALSO BE SURE TO ALLOW THE PROBE TO SIT ON THE BASKING SPOT FOR AT LEAST 20-30 MINUTES BEFORE READING IT. If the basking spot surface temperature is no longer between 105-110 degrees, simply lower the basking bulb down a bit, let it sit for another 30 minutes to an hour, then put the probe back on the basking spot for another 20-30 minutes and check it again.
In addition to the fact that the mesh lid has been keeping him from getting adequate UVB light this entire time, you also have to remember that that vet put him on a very, very harsh medication that was not only completely unnecessary and a dangerous decision to make on just a hunch or a guess, unfortunately the vet chose the worst medication possible to give him. It's a horribly strong drug that completely knocks their entire gastrointestinal tract out of whack, depletes all the healthy bacteria that normally lives in their guts, and most harmfully it puts enormous strain on their kidneys. Not to mention that even if he had actually done a fecal test and found a high count of Coccidia, #1) That is not the medication that ANY experienced reptile vet would ever prescribe unless they had done an additional culture and sensitivity and determined that the strain of coccidia that he had was one of the only two strains that respond to a sulfa drug, and #2) Unless the amount of coccidia he found was "to high to count/detect" he should not have given a baby dragon that small any medication for parasites, not if it was a low or moderate level.
So the bottom line is that your little guy was done a great disservice by that vet, had he been an experienced reptile vet he would have asked you about your husbandry BEFORE doing anything else, and the minute you told him what UVB light you had, how it was mounted, and how low his temperatures initially were (and how small a tank he was in) the vet would have immediately known what the problem was and helped you to correct it. But that's not what happened, so unfortunately it is going to take a while for his gastrointestinal system to feel normal again, some probiotics may help him a bit, but I'm willing to bet that a day or so after you get that mesh lid out from under the UVB tube and get him within 4" or so of the unobstructed tube, finally your beardie will be getting adequate and strong enough UVB light for a long enough photoperiod ever day, and he'll perk right up and start eating on his own in a day or so.
I wouldn't expect him to perk up and become active OR gain an appetite and start eating his live insects until you give him 14 hours of unobstructed UVB light, and the UVB tube at no further away from him than 5-6", 4" is better with that T8 UVB tube. I know it seems like such a petty little detail, but you must realize that bearded dragons are desert reptiles that get strong, intense, bright UVB and UVA light all day long every day in their natural environment. This is absolutely crucial to them being able to manufacture their own vitamin D3, which in turn allows them to absorb and process/use any and all nutrition (calories, fat, carbs, protein, etc.) and any vitamins and minerals, including calcium. So quite literally, without him getting 14 hours of unobstructed, direct UVB and UVA light every single day he is not manufacturing any vitamin D3, so in turn he's not been absorbing or processing/using any of the nutrition or vitamins/minerals that you've been giving him or that he's eaten on his own, he just excretes it out. So if he's been absorbing no nutrition, he certainly will be lethargic, weak, and not have any appetite at all.
For now just move the mesh lid off to the side, as AHBD already mentioned, exposing the unobstructed UVB tube to him, and making sure you arrange his tank so that his main basking spot/platform is directly underneath BOTH the unobstructed UVB tube AND the basking bulb (they must be right next to each other), as this is how you duplicate natural sunlight as closely as possible for him, so he gets both UVB and UVA light, along with other essential UV rays, and heat. Also be sure that his main basking spot is putting him with at least 5", as I said 4" is better, UVB tubes don't emit any heat so he won't burn himself, and a Reptisun 10.0 T8 UVB tube will not hurt his eyes or skin, so the closer you can get him to that unobstructed, exposed UVB tube the better. Allow both lights on for 14 hours a day, and about an hour or two after you slide the mesh lid to the side and set up his lighting correctly with the UVB light not being blocked anymore, use your probe thermometer to check the main basking spot surface temperature again, just to make sure it is still between 105-110 degrees...BE SURE TO LET THE LIGHTS IN THE NEW POSITION WITH THE MESH LID PUSHED TO THE SIDE FOR AT LEAST AN HOUR TO LET THE TANK GET TO THE TEMPS IT WILL NOW BE, AND ALSO BE SURE TO ALLOW THE PROBE TO SIT ON THE BASKING SPOT FOR AT LEAST 20-30 MINUTES BEFORE READING IT. If the basking spot surface temperature is no longer between 105-110 degrees, simply lower the basking bulb down a bit, let it sit for another 30 minutes to an hour, then put the probe back on the basking spot for another 20-30 minutes and check it again.
In addition to the fact that the mesh lid has been keeping him from getting adequate UVB light this entire time, you also have to remember that that vet put him on a very, very harsh medication that was not only completely unnecessary and a dangerous decision to make on just a hunch or a guess, unfortunately the vet chose the worst medication possible to give him. It's a horribly strong drug that completely knocks their entire gastrointestinal tract out of whack, depletes all the healthy bacteria that normally lives in their guts, and most harmfully it puts enormous strain on their kidneys. Not to mention that even if he had actually done a fecal test and found a high count of Coccidia, #1) That is not the medication that ANY experienced reptile vet would ever prescribe unless they had done an additional culture and sensitivity and determined that the strain of coccidia that he had was one of the only two strains that respond to a sulfa drug, and #2) Unless the amount of coccidia he found was "to high to count/detect" he should not have given a baby dragon that small any medication for parasites, not if it was a low or moderate level.
So the bottom line is that your little guy was done a great disservice by that vet, had he been an experienced reptile vet he would have asked you about your husbandry BEFORE doing anything else, and the minute you told him what UVB light you had, how it was mounted, and how low his temperatures initially were (and how small a tank he was in) the vet would have immediately known what the problem was and helped you to correct it. But that's not what happened, so unfortunately it is going to take a while for his gastrointestinal system to feel normal again, some probiotics may help him a bit, but I'm willing to bet that a day or so after you get that mesh lid out from under the UVB tube and get him within 4" or so of the unobstructed tube, finally your beardie will be getting adequate and strong enough UVB light for a long enough photoperiod ever day, and he'll perk right up and start eating on his own in a day or so.
klb2sweet":3058qs9o said:
Yes, please do ASAP, I know you didn't realize how much of an impact that mesh makes on the amount of UVB light getting through to your dragon, it seems like such a little, insignificant thing, but in all likelihood the reason your dragon is still not eating and is still lethargic is because he has still not gotten much, if any UVB light yet.
So cut out the mesh from under the entire tube AND REFLECTOR!!! THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT, YOU MUST CUT OUT A LARGE ENOUGH SECTION OF THE MESH TO ALLOW NOT ONLY THE ENTIRE UVB TUBE, BUT ALSO THE METAL REFLECTOR THAT WRAPS AROUND BOTH SIDES OF THE TUBE! So first make sure you know exactly where you want the UVB tube and the basking bulb so that they will always be right alongside and next to each other, and so that both of them will always be directly over his Main Basking Spot/Platform. Once you cut the mesh out that's where the UVB tube will have to be, and you don't want it right against a wall of the tank, neither front or back, but rather you want the UVB tube more in the center of the Hot Side of the tank. That way the reflector won't just reflect the UVB light right into the glass, but rather throughout the tank on both sides. Much better that the basking bulb is the light that is right against the front or back of the tank.And again, be sure that you try to get his Main Basking Spot/Platform up as high as possible so that it's close to the now exposed UVB tube.
Also, just an FYI because I'm not sure whether you know this or not, but you absolutely must replace that T8 UVB tube once every 6 months, as T8 UVB tubes stop emitting any UVB light at 6 months of age (average of at least 13-14 hours a day of being on, as it should be). The tube itself will not be burnt out at 6 months old and it will still turn on and light up, but it's only putting out regular light and no UVB light at all after 6 months. If you ever upgrade your UVB tube and your fixture to a T5 UVB tube (you cannot put a T5 tube into that fixture, it's not rated for the wattage of a T5 tube), the T5 UVB tubes only have to be replaced once a year...
klb2sweet":2gx781sw said:
Sounds good, just be sure that when he is on his main basking spot that the UVB tube itself is within at least 5" or so of him. This is key, because a T8 UVB tube isn't strong enough to get adequate UVB light to him at any further away than that, it just dissipates before reaching him. I'm willing to bet tthat now you will see a change in both his appetite and activity level by tomorrow. Be sure that he gets 14 hours a day of the UVB and the basking light...
Yes, good to have in unobstructed. It can be at least 8" away though, not 5. I've raised over 20 years worth of beardies, never ever had a bulb that close, no need. If + when he gets to feeling better he can easily jump out by climbing the hammock, so you meed to remove that ASAP. Just put the uvb bulb across the top of the aquarium , make sure it has a reflector + the baby will get plenty of uvb.
Looks good...it's amazing how much of a difference adequate UVB light makes with dragons, I know a lot of people come on here and we tell them they need a different UVB light and they just don't take it seriously, but I bet in 90% or more of the posts on here about a new dragon not eating and being lethargic it's due to an inadequate UVB light, or no UVB light at all.
He's darkening himself purposely so that he absorbs more light and heat, that's normal, they all do that when they are under their lights, and they'll brighten up when you take them out of their tanks. So don't worry about his color, though he does look awfully weak...Is he able to get within 6" of the UVB tube? And what are his temperatures right now (I'm pretty sure you already got a probe thermometer, correct)? Has he been eating, or are you syringe feeding him?
Just wanted to give you a friendly reminder that the baths are not necessary + are usually stressful to a weak baby. I never bathed babies, and I raised many, many clutches over a 20 year period, they get all their hydration from water sprayed, dripped on the snout as well as their food when they're eating well.
Him sitting on the rock in the water is stressful, this is adding to his problems. I know even some vets say to soak a weak baby but it generally does more harm than good. And I know it's heartbreaking to see him in this condition but it was mostly caused by the heavy meds. he was on as well as lack of proper light, but mostly from the meds, which can even lead to death in a weak baby. Now that he's off of them + has better lighting he will hopefully do better.
Him sitting on the rock in the water is stressful, this is adding to his problems. I know even some vets say to soak a weak baby but it generally does more harm than good. And I know it's heartbreaking to see him in this condition but it was mostly caused by the heavy meds. he was on as well as lack of proper light, but mostly from the meds, which can even lead to death in a weak baby. Now that he's off of them + has better lighting he will hopefully do better.
He is exactly 6” under the UVB bulb. The temp in that area is 88 degrees. His basking spot is 105.4. His cool area is at 75 degrees. Still hand feeding, but he has eaten a few crickets the last couple of day. Roughly one a day. He is still getting liquid calcium and I sprinkle everything! The picture of the soaking is an old pic. I’m not soaking him any more.
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