Are these symptoms of a dieing or sick bearded dragon?!!!!?

[A7X899]

My bearded dragon will only eat one worm a day if I am lucky. Today we had to force feed him. He cant even reach it. He cant hold his head up to drink or eat. He is very sleepy. His eyes are always closed. When he gets off his log he falls off. When he moves he cant lift himself up and he wiggles across the sand. Everything like light is good. I don't have a clue and i am really worries. Please can someone help me.

 

[Jiffy]

Please give us as much info as you can about your set up and beardies diet.
Temps, uv light brand, food, supplements, etc.

 

[Delshara]

It sounds a bit like the issue might be with your beardie's lights, maybe with temps, or parasites. Especially if he/she isn't getting enough calcium on top of that. All compact and coil bulbs are bad bulbs for UVB, and unfortunately I can speak from experience on this.

 

[Embee]

Hello,

I'm sorry to hear your dragon isn't doing well. I don't usually post the "big list" of questions because I understand it can be overwhelming, but truly, your dragon sounds in a bad way. The more detailed information we have on your dragon, his routine and his set up will allow us to help you all the better. In looking at his symptoms, the more quickly you can provide this information, the better.


How old is your dragon?
How long have you had your dragon?
How long is your dragon?
What is the sex of your dragon?
What size enclosure do you have your dragon in?
What type substrate do you have on the bottom of your tank?
Do you use UVB lights?
If so, Is it a coil, compact, fluorescent tube, or Mercury Vapor bulb?
What is the brand name and number of your bulb? Wattage (if MVB)?
How old is your UVB bulb?
How close can your dragon get to the UVB?
Do you use a separate basking bulb? What kind and what is the wattage?
What are the basking temps?
What is the cool side temp?
Do you take the temps with a stick on thermometer, a digital thermometer with a wire and a probe end or a temp gun?
Where exactly are you taking your basking temps?
Do you use a heat rock or heat pad?
What do you feed your dragon? Please be specific.
How often do you feed and what time do you feed (morning, afternoon, night)?
Do you gutload (feed) your crickets, worms, etc?
Do you use vitamin or calcium supplements? What brand(s)? How many days a week do you use each of them?
Is your dragon having regular bowel movements (poops)?
Do you bath your dragon? How often?
Do you mist your dragon or offer water other than in the bath?
Does your dragon share an enclosure with another dragon?
Have you gotten a vet check and fecal done?

Thank you,
Em

 

[A7X899]

How old is your dragon? 2 and a half years old
How long have you had your dragon? 2 and a half years
How long is your dragon? 18 inches
What is the sex of your dragon? male
What size enclosure do you have your dragon in? 50 gallons
What type substrate do you have on the bottom of your tank? ground English walnut shells
Do you use UVB lights?we use a uv, i don't know about uvb
If so, Is it a coil, compact, fluorescent tube, or Mercury Vapor bulb? fluorescent tube
What is the brand name and number of your bulb? Wattage (if MVB)?
How old is your UVB bulb? about 3 months
How close can your dragon get to the UVB? its right above his cage and he is near 6 windows
Do you use a separate basking bulb? What kind and what is the wattage? no. 75 watts
What are the basking temps? around 95 degrees maybe 100 but usually 95
What is the cool side temp? around 86 degrees
Do you take the temps with a stick on thermometer, a digital thermometer with a wire and a probe end or a temp gun? i have thermometer in his cage at both ends
Where exactly are you taking your basking temps? right next to his basking spot
Do you use a heat rock or heat pad? neither.
What do you feed your dragon? Please be specific. we feed him repcal, which he hasn't eaten in 2 weeks. he wont eat it. super worms. one a day. all he will eat at the moment.
How often do you feed and what time do you feed (morning, afternoon, night)? morning and mid afternoon. i try my best, but he just wont eat that much
Do you gutload (feed) your crickets, worms, etc? no
Do you use vitamin or calcium supplements? What brand(s)? How many days a week do you use each of them? repcal. he wont eat any though
Is your dragon having regular bowel movements (poops)? yes. Last poop though was really liquidly little poop, lot of liquid
Do you bath your dragon? How often? yes. Once a week
Do you mist your dragon or offer water other than in the bath? yes every other day and big bowl he can crawl into
Does your dragon share an enclosure with another dragon? no
Have you gotten a vet check and fecal done? no. not yet


Hope that helps with you helping me. I have a herp appointment for monday

 

[Embee]

How old is your dragon? 2 and a half years old
How long have you had your dragon? 2 and a half years
How long is your dragon? 18 inches
What is the sex of your dragon? male
What size enclosure do you have your dragon in? 50 gallons
What type substrate do you have on the bottom of your tank? ground English walnut shells
Do you use UVB lights?we use a uv, i don't know about uvb
If so, Is it a coil, compact, fluorescent tube, or Mercury Vapor bulb? fluorescent tube
What is the brand name and number of your bulb? Wattage (if MVB)?
How old is your UVB bulb? about 3 months
How close can your dragon get to the UVB? its right above his cage and he is near 6 windows
Do you use a separate basking bulb? What kind and what is the wattage? no. 75 watts
What are the basking temps? around 95 degrees maybe 100 but usually 95
What is the cool side temp? around 86 degrees
Do you take the temps with a stick on thermometer, a digital thermometer with a wire and a probe end or a temp gun? i have thermometer in his cage at both ends
Where exactly are you taking your basking temps? right next to his basking spot
Do you use a heat rock or heat pad? neither.
What do you feed your dragon? Please be specific. we feed him repcal, which he hasn't eaten in 2 weeks. he wont eat it. super worms. one a day. all he will eat at the moment.
How often do you feed and what time do you feed (morning, afternoon, night)? morning and mid afternoon. i try my best, but he just wont eat that much
Do you gutload (feed) your crickets, worms, etc? no
Do you use vitamin or calcium supplements? What brand(s)? How many days a week do you use each of them? repcal. he wont eat any though
Is your dragon having regular bowel movements (poops)? yes. Last poop though was really liquidly little poop, lot of liquid
Do you bath your dragon? How often? yes. Once a week
Do you mist your dragon or offer water other than in the bath? yes every other day and big bowl he can crawl into
Does your dragon share an enclosure with another dragon? no
Have you gotten a vet check and fecal done? no. not yet

Hope that helps with you helping me. I have a herp appointment for monday

(bold mine) I've "bolded" some things that I'm going to address. Thank you so much for working through that list. It helps a ton.

First and foremost, the fluorescent tube. It would be MOST helpful to know the brand and model of the tube, as there are some out there causing issues for dragons (ReptiGlo 10.0, ESU 7%, and others). If you look at the tube itself, you will likely find a brand name and model number. Let us know as soon as you can on that.

The other thing I would be concerned about is temps/hydration. You mention that you are gauging temps "beside" the basking spot, and they are coming up 95-100. This could also be an issue. If the temps beside the basking spot are 95-100, the temps directly under the light are higher, possibly too high as a dragon of that age, as an adult should be getting temps of 90-100 directly on the basking surface. Too high of temps can cause dehydration and lethargy which could certainly lead to lack of appetite. I would up the baths to daily while he is not feeling well/eating, and once feeling well, 2-4 times per week is best, a good 15 minute soak in baby warm water, up to shoulders. Misting is ok for supplemental water but beardies will take most of their water in at the vent. So, it is important to know what going on directly under the bulb. Either a digital with probe thermometer or temp gun can be helpful in getting exact basking temps. (WalMart and Lowe's carry a good, inexpensive digital with probe by Acu-Rite for around $12). It also has a built in hygrometer for gauging humidity which is nice.

As to food, you mention you feed supers and Rep-Cal, but is your dragon getting any fresh veggies and fruit? Also, when you say the poop is runny, do you mean the poop itself is very liquid like, or is it well formed, but encased in lots of liquid? Sometimes runny poop is a sign of parasites, so good that you're getting him into the vet on Monday. You'll definitely want to take a stool sample along. For now, I'd suspend any force feeding, and the supers. In trying to get some food into him, you can try a little jarred chicken baby food, mixed with a bit of water. Place some on his nose, and see if he'll lick it... this can sometimes be a good way of getting some quick protein in when they are not readily accepting the bugs. If it comes to it, I'll get you some advice as to how to syringe feed, k? Also, before his appetite went down, about how many bugs was he eating per week? And how often were you offering at that time?

The only other thing I would caution about is the substrate. The shells being a loose substrate can present an impaction risk to your dragon. Further, they tend to harbor more bacteria than solid substrates. My best advice for right now, while your dragon is ailing, would be to remove the shells, and put in some clean paper towel for now, while he is feeling poorly. Later, you might consider slate, tile or repti-carpet... or keep with the towels if you like.

Ok, I'll leave you with that for now. Please let me know when you are able to discern the exact basking temps, about the food and most importantly, the brand and model of your UVB light, and we'll take it from there.

The best and hang in there!

Em

 

[Embee]

I've got a PM into Diane (moderator, "diamc") for you.

Hang in there,
Em

 

[diamc]

Hi there, sorry to hear that your beardie isn't doing well. Before you can help you figure out what might be going on, we need you to answer all the questions that have been posted so far. Type of thermometer, brand of UVB, etc. Any detailed you can give us will be helpful. From what we know so far, I would say that he either has metabolic bone disease or he is impacted from the walnut shells, so the sooner you can get back to us, the better.

 

[A7X899]

they aren't shells. it is ground up like sand. And he would hunt at least two dozen crickets twice a week. now he wont eat any. He would eat 7-8 worms every other day. he wont eat lettuce or any thing else in that matter. it says repti-glow 8.0 33% uv 8% uvb . 15 watts. his poop was solid with lots of liquid. the thermometers are ones i bought at petsmart. one sticks to the side of the glass, the other one is on the ground. I really appreciate your help this means a lot to me. i am so worried. thank you

 

[diamc]

Thanks for sharing a little more info. Is the UVB a strip fluorescent or a coil/compact bulb? How close is he to this bulb? Has he been closing his eyes?

It's actually crushed walnut shells and are sharp like pieces of glass even though you can't see them. When ingested they can tear up their insides when they try to pass them. Would be much safer to use a solid substrate.

Unfortunately those thermometers don't give good readings, can actually be off as much as 20 degrees either way. The only 2 ways to get accurate readings are with either a temperature gun or digital thermometer with a long wire & probe end. Here's a digital with probe that you can get at Walmart for about $12.00, the Accurite brand, you can get both the basking & cool side temps at the same time & it also has a humidity readout. They have them in the store where the outdoor plastic thermometers are sold. It works very well.

What you do is lay the probe so that it is resting on (actually touching) the basking log or rock and place the thermometer part way over on the bottom of the cool side, you wait about 45 min for the temp to stop rising, then the "out" reading is for the basking & the "in" reading is for the cool side.

What size tank are you using & are you using a basking bulb, if so, what is the wattage?

Here's a site that shows the best greens/veggies to feed: http://www.beautifuldragons.503xtreme.com/Nutrition.html Lettuce really doesn't have any nutritional value and can cause runny poops.

We know you are worried and we really want to help get him straightened out.

 

[A7X899]

it is a fluorescent bulb. it is a 50 gallon tank. on the ground he is 13 inches away. on his log he is 8 inches away. yes he keeps his eyes shut most of the time. Oww. really?!?!? thats terrible. what would you recommend for a solid bottom? i am using a basking bulb. 75 watts

 

[AprilMayJune]

You can use paper towel or newspaper for now. You could look into getting slate or ceramic (textured) tiles and have them cut to fit your tank. They are easy to clean, helps file down your beardie's nails, bacteria doesn't mutiply like in the various sands and if you don't break them are permanent and don't need to be replaced continuously.

That UVB that you have isn't a bad one so no big worries there.

Measure temps correctly and let us know what they're at. Ideally 100-110*F is good for basking and 70-80*F for cool side ambient temps are good.

 

[diamc]

Ok, that's good that it's the Repti-Glo 8.0 fluorescent. Make sure the basking bulb is a white one and that it is placed alongside the UVB so that he can get both benefits at the same time. If it is a colored basking bulb, those are very hard on the eyes and beardies actually do much better with bright white bulbs.

His eyes may be irritated from the walnut shells, he actually may have gotten some in his eyes. Another issue with a loose substrate is that it breeds bacteria, impossible to clean all their poop debris up so some remains behind causing bacteria to forum. Solid substrates would be slate tile, NON-adhesive shelf liner, reptile carpet or even paper towels.

I suggest you get a good thermometer right away. You also might find that the cool side is actually a little too cool if you don't have a bulb on that side. Let me know when you get your thermometer and I can help you make adjustments if needed.

 

[Embee]

Hey there,

Thanks for getting some more detailed information in to us. It really helps! You've received some excellent advice and I haven't anything more to add at this point, but want you to know that we're all pulling for your dragon.

Indeed, I'll be most interested to see how the temps work out with the probe. It can really make such a huge difference when you know the exact basking temps. I'll check back in tomorrow and see how things are going.

The best,
Em

P.S. Thanks, Diane.

 

[A7X899]

i am going to try to get to wal-mart as soon as i can but for now i am using my little one right underneath the lamp. its red, the light. it was the only 75 watt they had. 100 cooks him, he usually crawls under his log, but i am worried that since he has no energy he wont move out of the heat, and he will bake.