ANOTHER SERIOUS HEALTH PROBLEM WITH MING......

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Denise Bushnell (RIP)

Juvie Member
Retired Moderator
As some of you may know, since I’m sure that many of you read my post a couple of months ago, warning about the damage that can be caused by retained shed, Ming had to have about a inch and a half of his tail amputated back in April, due to the end of his tail becoming necrotic because of lack of circulation, which was caused by retained shed on the end of his tail. His tailed healed beautifully, and he has been doing fine. In fact, he actually shed about the last 4 inches of his tail about 2 weeks ago, including the end of it, where it was amputated, and it all came off in one solid piece. I was very pleased to see that he had made a full recovery, and was doing so well.

He's been very active, has been eating like a little pig, and seemed to have made a complete recovery. However, I did notice that some of the new scales on the top of the end of his tail, on one side were completely black, in an area which was about half the size of a dime. Although he did have a few discolored scales, they didn’t seem to bother him at all, and the other new, surrounding scales had normal coloration, so I assumed that these scales might have been from scarring, due to the amputation. Since he's been growing, shedding, and gaining weight, I assumed that all was well.

About 3 weeks ago, I had gone out for the evening, and came home to have my husband tell me that Ming had been mouthing at his tail. Each time my husband saw him do it, he would knock on the glass on the front of his tank, and scold him for it, and he would stop. He did it 3 times in total. When my husband told me, I took him out of his tank and checked out his tail to see if I could see anything that may have been making him uncomfortable, but everything was fine, and although I did find one small red mark on the underside of his tail, he hadn't broken the skin anywhere. I assumed that he probably just had an itch or something that was annoying him. Since then, there have been no more episodes, up until this past Thursday night.

My husband and I were watching a movie, and about 10:00 , I glanced over at his tank, to see whether or not he was sleeping, and saw that both he and his tank were covered with spatters of blood, and he was bleeding very badly from his tail. I immediately removed him from his tank, and took him into the kitchen, where the lighting was better, so I could see exactly what he’d done to himself. I was horrified to find that he had badly mutilated about the last inch of his tail again, and he was bleeding very badly. The end of his tail had been ripped open in several places, and he had nearly bitten it off! I immediately got some sterile gauze, and put pressure on the end of his tail to slow the bleeding, and once the bleeding had almost completely stopped, I dipped the entire end of his tail in Betadyne, applied a large amount of Neosporin to it, and, covered the entire end of his tail with a thick bandage, so that he couldn’t harm himself anymore, or start it bleeding gain. I then tried to contact his vet, but he has no emergency service after hours, so I spent most of the night in a chair, or on the couch next to his tank, awake, and checking on him frequently, to make sure that the bleeding hadn't started up again.

I called Dr. Horn first thing Friday morning, and was told to bring him right over, so that he could check him out. Upon removing the bandage, the wounds were still seeping blood, and you could see that he'd nearly torn the end of his tail completely off. Dr. Horn had no choice but to amputate another 2-1/2 inches of his tail, since the end of it was mangled and torn up far too badly to be stitched. He had the surgery on Friday afternoon, to the tune of another $268.00, on top of the nearly $400 that I spent the last time....

He was released from the hospital around suppertime, and was sent home with both an antibiotic to prevent infection, and medication for pain. He's been sleeping and quiet since coming home but both Dr. Horn and myself are completely in the dark about what is going on. During the surgery, Dr. Horn could find no abnormalities with the end of his tail.... no sign of any internal infection, no mites, no fungous infection on the end of his tail....nothing whatever to indicate why he did this.

Have any of you ever had this happen? Especially any of you who have had to deal with having their beardie’s tail either partly or fully amputated?

His vet seems to think that he may be having some sort of a neurological problem, which is causing him pain or discomfort in his tail, which may be why he did this, but we have no way of knowing for sure. Dr. Horn plans to contact some of his colleagues, who specialize in reptiles, at the University of Pennsylvania's Veterinary Hospital over the weekend, to see if any of them can shed any light as to what may have caused him to do this.

I spoke to Tracie and Vicky, two of our forum’s other moderators, concerning what happened, and they suggested that possibly he may have a pinched nerve, or some sort of a circulatory problem which is causing either pain or another type of strange sensation in his tail. I plan to bring both of these things up with his vet on Monday, but whether or not one of these things will be the case is anybody’s guess.

While it is possible that something physical caused him to do this, it is also possible, according to his vet, that it may be something psychological, in which case there’s no way to tell whether or not it will happen again.

I didn’t get Ming until he was 13 months old, and he had been given up by his other family, due to the fact that they had bought both him and his brother, and were keeping them in the same tank, and, when they reached sexual maturity, they began to fight, as most sexually mature male beardies housed together will. His first family elected to only keep one of them, and Ming was returned to Pet Shop where he was originally purchased, to be rehomed. Because of this, there is no way to know if he has ever suffered some sort of psychological trauma that may be causing this to happen now, when he is nearly 6 years old. So, for now, even once the end of his tail heals, it will remain bandaged to ensure that he never does this again, unless we do eventually find some sort of physical reason for his having mutilated himself the way that he did.

If any of you have any ideas concerning any other sort of physical abnormality or condition which may have caused him to do this, please let me know.....and please keep him in your prayers. At this point we need all the help that we can get! I will keep all of you posed on his progress......
 

fresnowitte

BD.org Sicko
Oh Denise you must be so beside yourself trying to figure this out.
I'm sorry I have no ideas to add as to why he might be doing this but....I did want you to know that Ming is in my prayers. Best of luck at the Vet's on Monday hopefully Dr. Horn's colleagues can shed some light.
 

Mistyck

Extreme Poster
After reading the story, it occurred to me that he could be having "phantom pains". I know when humans have a limb amputated they can still sometimes feel the limb and it "aches". I know that happens to me. I have a finger that I no longer have the (from the first knuckle up), and sometimes the missing part itches, but it's not there.

Maybe this could be something to discuss with the vets also.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phantom_pain
 

keschete

Sub-Adult Member
I am so sorry for your poor baby. I am not sure about this issue with reptiles, but with Sugar Gliders and some other exotics, if they have any pain they will self mutilate.

I have a male Sugar Glider who has given me many hours of worry because he self mutilates if he even gets constipated. It started when he was neutered, he was an older adult that I had rescued. I actually had to make an E collar for him with some plastic notebook cover and some dr scholls foot pad stuff (to line the neck park of the e collar) and some surgical silk tape.

Here is a picture....could you possibly do that with your dragon until the tail heals? It's just a thought. It would prevent the self mutilation....pm me if you want specific instructions on making an e collar.

ecollar2.jpg
 

fresnowitte

BD.org Sicko
Mistyck":b65fb said:
it occurred to me that he could be having "phantom pains". I know when humans have a limb amputated they can still sometimes feel the limb and it "aches".
I was just thinking that same thing.
 

Goonie

BD.org Sicko
Retired Moderator
Oh geez! I have no advice to offer, but I wish you and Ming the best and that he will stop biting his tail from this day forward.

Hugs from me and Pookie.
 

sweetiepie9

BD.org Sicko
Retired Moderator
Oh Denise, I'm so sorry to hear about Ming and his tail. Poor baby, I wish I could help. Lonzo had a good chunk of his tail amputated in the spring, too; he had started an infection in his tail and about 1 1/2" was already black, but he healed up fine, so far, and hasn't tried to bite his tail. I hope your vet can help you find out what the problem is. Keep us posted on how he's managing.

Take care,
Deborah
 

Denise Bushnell (RIP)

Juvie Member
Retired Moderator
Original Poster
Well, it's now just a little after midnight on Monday morning, so I thought I would post and give everyone an update on Ming.

Both Saturday and yesterday, he seemed to be doing fairly well, although I think that he's much more uncomfortable from the surgery this time around, probably because of the thickness of his tail where his incision was made. So far he's leaving the bandage alone, and he hasn't started mouthing any other body parts....Thank God!

He's spent most of the last two days sleeping in the little fur lined bed that I bought him, covered with a light handtowel, although he did get up a couple of times to move to his rock to bask. I'm thankful that Dr. Horn sent him home with pain medication, because I think he feels better after I give it to him, and he goes right to sleep.

He would only eat 4 crickets today, and a bit of raw apple, and I had to hand feed him those, so I know that he's definitely not feeling very well. Also, he's being very "off" with me when I check on him, and doesn't want to be held, and that is definitely not Ming....usually he'll do everything but stand on his head to get me to take him out of his tank. Basically, he just wants to sleep and be left alone, which I guess is understandable, if he's in pain.

I did manage to get some fruit juice and some beef broth into him a little while ago, after giving him his meds, so at least I know that he's well hydrated, which is probably a good thing, considering the amount of blood that he lost. It just breaks my heart to see him like this....he's usually such a happy and social little guy when he's feeling well. I love all 3 of my beardies, but Ming has a special place in my heart, and I just can't stand seeing him in pain.... I have to change his bandage tomorrow afternoon, and I'm not looking forward to that at all.
I just hope that the gauze isn't stuck fast to the incision.
Dr. Horn said that I can bring him into the office, if I want, and he'll do it, but since I'm perfectly capable of doing it myself, I can't see putting him through the stress of the car ride, unless, of course, I don't like the way it looks, in which case I will take him immediately, to be checked out.

I want to thank all of you for your concern and prayers for Ming, and also for all the moral support you've shown me. I really don't think I'd be able to handle this as well as I have been without having all of you to talk to. I especially want to thank Diane, Tracie, and Vicky, who have been putting up with my phone calls for the last 4 days, at all hours of the night. I don't think I could do this without you guys. I'd also like to thank Mistyck for the link that she posted concerning "phantom pain". That certainly could be a possibility, since the first amputation was not not very long ago, and I printed out the article to give to Dr. Horn at my first opportunity.

I will continue to keep all of you posted on Ming's progress, and please continue to keep him in your prayers....

Hugs to All of You...
 

sara24354

Sub-Adult Member
Denise,
I am so sorry to hear about Ming!!!!!!!!!!Snuggle him for me when you can and tell him that Alf Freckles,Timmy and I wish him a speedy recovery. I wish I knew something that would help,but I don't! I know that phantom pain has been mentioned,my dad went through that,he had a leg amputated and even after several years would sit and bounce his leg(they took it from the knee down,)there was times he would bounce his thigh and when asked what was wrong he would say think me crazy,but the bottom of my leg hurts/itches whichever was bugging him. Much love and prayers to you and Ming,we're thinking of you.
 

Mistyck

Extreme Poster
Denise Bushnell":453f0 said:
I want to thank all of you for your concern and prayers for Ming, and also for all the moral support you've shown me. I really don't think I'd be able to handle this as well as I have been without having all of you to talk to. I especially want to thank Diane, Tracie, and Vicky, who have been putting up with my phone calls for the last 4 days, at all hours of the night. I don't think I could do this without you guys. I'd also like to thank Mistyck for the link that she posted concerning "phantom pain". That certainly could be a possibility, since the first amputation was not not very long ago, and I printed out the article to give to Dr. Horn at my first opportunity.

Denise,

You show everyone else so much support on this board, so it's only right that we show you support.

I hope that the link I posted about the phantom pains helps you and your vet figure things out. If it's not neurological it might just be that the tail itself was itching because of the operation and healing.

Let us know how his progress goes!
 

Jiffy

BD.org Addict
I really hope that Ming is doing better!
Poor guy, he has had it rough with his tail. And I feel for you too, having to go thru that.
Thanks for the update on Ming and let us know how he continues to do.
 
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