Drache613

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
Hello,

That is terrific news then, I am very happy for you both!
If she has a mild infection then the Baytril should clear it up pretty quickly. I hope Shenron is feeling
better & gets her appetite back soon also.
Do you have a copy of the blood test you could post? The uric acid levels most of the time should be
3-4mg/dl for normal function. If the levels are low that can indicate a vitamin or mineral deficiency, or
dehydration. In some cases, low kidney function can be a precursor for gout, yes. In later stages, the
uric acid levels are high, which indicates compromised kidneys & or renal failure in some cases.
Gout or septic arthritis are usually caused by a lot of the same issues & often go hand in hand together.
Let us know how she is doing.

Tracie
 

Tay1Day

Member
Original Poster
Beardie name(s)
Shenron
Hello,

That is terrific news then, I am very happy for you both!
If she has a mild infection then the Baytril should clear it up pretty quickly. I hope Shenron is feeling
better & gets her appetite back soon also.
Do you have a copy of the blood test you could post? The uric acid levels most of the time should be
3-4mg/dl for normal function. If the levels are low that can indicate a vitamin or mineral deficiency, or
dehydration. In some cases, low kidney function can be a precursor for gout, yes. In later stages, the
uric acid levels are high, which indicates compromised kidneys & or renal failure in some cases.
Gout or septic arthritis are usually caused by a lot of the same issues & often go hand in hand together.
Let us know how she is doing.

Tracie
Hi Tracie,
I was told the uric levels were okay but I don’t know what the blood work said specifically.
Awaiting my copy of her blood work. I emailed them for it on Thursday so hopefully I get it back soon, I’ll post once I have it!
 

Drache613

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
Hello,

Great, thanks. I will definitely look them over once you post them.
How is she doing today?

Tracie
 

Tay1Day

Member
Original Poster
Beardie name(s)
Shenron
Hello,

Great, thanks. I will definitely look them over once you post them.
How is she doing today?

Tracie
Tracie,
I hope these show up well. She’s doing okay, she has her ups and downs. She’s moving around more but still only taking critical care. No interest in salads and will only eat super worms. She’s not interested in her BSFL or her silkworms. She has two subcutaneous antibiotics left before she’s done with them. Not sure when they’ll want her back in for a recheck. Let me know what you think of her results. I’ve shared with another herp vet and he said he was concerned about the elevated basophils, but that everything else looked okay.
 

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Drache613

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
Hello!

Yes thanks, I was able to see the blood tests. It is hard when they have good & bad days but hopefully
soon she will have more good than bad! The antibiotics might be upsetting her system also. The basophils
are a little high. That can indicate some thyroid issues, meaning it isn't producing quite enough thyroid
hormone. That could be one reason why she isn't real active right now.
The AST (liver enzymes), calcium, & Uric acid (kidney readings) are all good. Overall the report isn't bad
at all.
Keep trying with the other insects & salads/greens, hopefully she will start eating more soon.

Tracie
 

Tay1Day

Member
Original Poster
Beardie name(s)
Shenron
Hello!

Yes thanks, I was able to see the blood tests. It is hard when they have good & bad days but hopefully
soon she will have more good than bad! The antibiotics might be upsetting her system also. The basophils
are a little high. That can indicate some thyroid issues, meaning it isn't producing quite enough thyroid
hormone. That could be one reason why she isn't real active right now.
The AST (liver enzymes), calcium, & Uric acid (kidney readings) are all good. Overall the report isn't bad
at all.
Keep trying with the other insects & salads/greens, hopefully she will start eating more soon.

Tracie
Thank you for the insight, Tracie. I'll talk to her vet about potential hypothyroidism. How is that generally treated? I see that iodine supplements can be used for that, either orally or intravenously.
Her energy levels lately have been much lower than before, but I suspect that's from her antibiotics. She has no interest in food and barely moves/holds her head up. I'm really concerned. I am continuing critical care at night if I see that she has not touched her salad or is not interested in bugs. I'm at a loss, and it's so hard to see her so lethargic and lifeless. She cuddled up with me last night after lights off, and seemed a little perkier but she tends to perk up out of her enclosure - likely because she feels the need to be more alert I guess? I just want to help her.
 

Drache613

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
Hello,

Yes, antibiotics tend to make them more tired & affects their appetites, too.
There isn't a lot of documentation but you could give rich sources of iodine such as organic kelp,
which is very safe. I would hesitate giving straight thyroid medication without a confirmation on
low thyroid output. I can do more research on the levels to see what else might be able to be done,
should the output be somewhat low.
If you were to use straight iodine, it should be used with care so it doesn't cause dysfunction instead.
There are varying percentages of Iodine, too. Reptiles are sensitive so less is better.
Keep us posted on her!

Tracie
 

Tay1Day

Member
Original Poster
Beardie name(s)
Shenron
Hello,

Yes, antibiotics tend to make them more tired & affects their appetites, too.
There isn't a lot of documentation but you could give rich sources of iodine such as organic kelp,
which is very safe. I would hesitate giving straight thyroid medication without a confirmation on
low thyroid output. I can do more research on the levels to see what else might be able to be done,
should the output be somewhat low.
If you were to use straight iodine, it should be used with care so it doesn't cause dysfunction instead.
There are varying percentages of Iodine, too. Reptiles are sensitive so less is better.
Keep us posted on her!

Tracie
Tracie,
Thank you! Bringing her back in tomorrow to figure out what's up with her. I appreciate all of your help :)
 

Drache613

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
Hello,

You are very welcome. Let us know how things go at the vet visit. I hope she is feeling better.
It may take some time to get levels up, but keep at it.

Tracie
 

Tay1Day

Member
Original Poster
Beardie name(s)
Shenron
Hello,

You are very welcome. Let us know how things go at the vet visit. I hope she is feeling better.
It may take some time to get levels up, but keep at it.

Tracie
Hi Tracie,
I have an update, and it's not what I wanted to hear.
We finally had X-Rays done, and the third vet found that her abdomen is absolutely full of fluid or fecal matter. It's so severe that her lungs are being pushed up under her armpits - they're supposed to span down her ribcage, but they're only taking up about 1/5 of her abdomen.
In his physical exam, he said he felt a lot of poop and food in her belly.
We are hoping her abdomen is just full of poop at this time, but she poops regularly so I am fearing it is fluid or blood from an organ leak.
He said the only way to be sure is either to do a CT scan, which can cost over $1,000, or we can do exploratory surgery. Due to her age, the vet is not comfortable with performing surgery, so even if it is an organ leak, the option of repairing it is sadly not on the table. He also ran another full blood panel to see if any of her values have improved. I'll know in a day or two.
He sent us home with Cisapride in hopes of kicking her digestive tract into high gear. Before I got her in 2021, she was being kept in sand, so I am hoping with all hope that she is just severely impacted. She does, however, poop normally so I am not sure this is the case, unless her "new" poop is somehow sneaking over the impaction and passing that way. I am not sure how their digestive systems work, so I don't know if this is a possibility.
At this time, she is only being hand fed and is rejecting all salad and bugs. She isn't eating super worms, which are her favorites. It's breaking my heart.
I appreciate all of your advice and help. Right now, we are going to follow through with her Cisapride and monitor her for quality of life. I fear I may be faced with that impossible decision in the coming months, so I am spending as much time with her as I possibly can.
 

Drache613

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
Hello,

Oh bless her, I am sorry to hear about the results. How is she looking, does she have any darkness
to her beard at all?
I am not sure why she would be impacted, what type of foods are you giving, that could cause some
type of impaction problems?
I hope the Cisapride helps out, for the infection in her system. She isn't eating on her own then? You
could also give some manuka honey or raw unpasteurized honey for her a few drops a couple of times
per week to help boost her system some. Be sure to keep her warmer overnight to help too.
Keep us posted on her & her condition.

Tracie
 

Tay1Day

Member
Original Poster
Beardie name(s)
Shenron
Hello,

Oh bless her, I am sorry to hear about the results. How is she looking, does she have any darkness
to her beard at all?
I am not sure why she would be impacted, what type of foods are you giving, that could cause some
type of impaction problems?
I hope the Cisapride helps out, for the infection in her system. She isn't eating on her own then? You
could also give some manuka honey or raw unpasteurized honey for her a few drops a couple of times
per week to help boost her system some. Be sure to keep her warmer overnight to help too.
Keep us posted on her & her condition.

Tracie
Tracie,
She looks fine. No signs of stress - no darkness to her coloration or beard, and no stress marks. She is just incredibly lethargic. She sleeps in basking all day.
So I got her in 2021. When I got her, the enclosure she came in was too small (60 gal aquarium) and she was in sand. Her basking area did not reach optimal temps and she came with an old T8, which I am unsure of how long it had been used. In her x-rays, her bone density looked spectacular somehow. She looked perfectly healthy that way. I am hoping with every hope that she ingested sand back then and became impacted, which slowly built up over time. I really hope it isn't fluid. She does poop fairly regularly, and her poops are always pretty large, but I'm hoping she just has some backed up that isn't coming out. Once we are done with the cisapride, we are going to do an ultrasound to see if we can determine if it's free fluid or poop. If it's fluid, her vet said he is willing to drain it non surgically (using a needle guided by ultrasound to draw it out) which would require sedation.
Her bloodwork came back and everything is normal now. No infection. Slightly elevated red blood cell but within normal range, the vet indicated that could mean dehydration. Her second vet also said previously that her kidney function was a little low, but not alarmingly so.
When she was healthy, she ate collard greens, mustard greens, carrot tops, arugula, squash, bell pepper, occasional cucumber. For bugs, she had BSFL, discoids, and crickets - occasional super worm as a treat, horn worm maybe once every month or two as a treat and for hydration. As of now, we are on the collard green/critical care slurry. The vet said she was so full that it's not surprising she does not want to eat. There's simply no room for food. She also is not moving around as much because her lungs are so compressed. She drinks her bath water, and I try to keep her hydrated.
New vet advised to soak her in warm water for 30 minutes twice a week. I am afraid to palpate or massage her too much because she must be so uncomfortable.
I am just at a loss. I tried to do everything right for her and this hit us out of no where. I don't even know how long she's been like this - she has always been pretty large and pancake-ey, and I am discovering that it's not even natural body mass. It's the poop or fluid building up in her abdomen. I just wish I did x-rays a long time ago, but none of her vets thought it would be necessary.
 

Drache613

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
Hello,

How is your girl doing? Bless her, I am not sure why this would have happened. There are increasing
numbers of cases like this, meaning, illness, etc hitting out of the blue.
Wow, so the bloodwork came back normal now? I'm happy to hear that the Cisapride helped out for the
infection. Are they going to do an ultrasound on her to try & determine what the fluids might be?
Has she been tested for Adenovirus?
You can try giving some liquid or powdered milk thistle. Perhaps her liver might be having a little trouble,
even if the blood values are somewhat normal.
Do you have a copy of the blood test you could post?
I'm sure that has to be frustrating not knowing what is going on. Keep trying with her, & be sure to keep
her warm enough at night right now. Let us know how she is doing.

Tracie
 

Tay1Day

Member
Original Poster
Beardie name(s)
Shenron
Hello,

How is your girl doing? Bless her, I am not sure why this would have happened. There are increasing
numbers of cases like this, meaning, illness, etc hitting out of the blue.
Wow, so the bloodwork came back normal now? I'm happy to hear that the Cisapride helped out for the
infection. Are they going to do an ultrasound on her to try & determine what the fluids might be?
Has she been tested for Adenovirus?
You can try giving some liquid or powdered milk thistle. Perhaps her liver might be having a little trouble,
even if the blood values are somewhat normal.
Do you have a copy of the blood test you could post?
I'm sure that has to be frustrating not knowing what is going on. Keep trying with her, & be sure to keep
her warm enough at night right now. Let us know how she is doing.

Tracie
Tracie,
She seems to be going downhill. The Cisapride, I believe, is to help her with her digestion. The vet said it's like a gastroprokinetic agent. I think the subcutaneous antibiotics helped the infection.
I don't have a copy of her newest blood values, the vet just called me and told me everything has improved.
We are going to see if the Cisapride helps get things moving. I think if nothing has changed by Wednesday, we will schedule an ultrasound and see if they can drain the fluid.
She has been avoiding her basking area and sleeping in her hide a lot. I'm not home during the day so i can't move her, but I do watch her on my camera and ask my husband to move her when I notice that she is hiding more. I am worried she might be wanting to brumate, but I don't think she is healthy enough to do so. I'm at a loss.
She is not eating on her own at all and has become much more lethargic. I don't know if the Cisapride is causing this or what the deal is.
I just soaked her for 30 mins in warm water, and i am now holding her and drying her off. I had to put a washcloth under her chin so she wouldn't drown. She is just so weak and sad.
I don't know what to do.
 

Drache613

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
Hello,

Oh no, I hate to hear that. Is her beard dark?
I would probably stop giving medications right now
& focus on getting her system boosted up some.
Or they recommend keeping her on the cisapride
for now? Medications definitely can cause marked
lethargy & lack of appetite.
At the moment, I wouldn't let her brumate since she
isn't 100% right now. It's positive that the vet had
mentioned the values had improved so that is a
great sign.
Keep trying with her, she is hanging in there. Are
you able to get some food into her since she isn't
eating on her own?

Let us know how she is doing.
Tracie
 

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