Anemia and Baytril

[Tay1Day]

Hello,

Great, the 13 inches should be just fine for her. Is she liking the lighting adjustments, or can you
tell yet?
Keep us posted on her. I hope she starts doing better.

Tracie

She’s been at 13 inches for a few months now, I had this magnetic ledge that was 16 inches away but I flipped it which pushed her up a few inches because the bottom part was lower and I never Re measured because it seemed like the same distance but it wasn’t. She does seem to be doing a little better today, her tongue and gums are still really pale and she’s not interested in food so I’m hand feeding critical care omnivore and greens slurry. She made her first poop today which was kind of solid. It wasn’t watery, it just wasn’t all together which I expected with her hand feeding diet. I did use a super worm to trick her into eating collard greens and some dandelion greens yesterday. With her anemia, I’m afraid of the possibility of GNT which I’ll have her new vet test her for. Just feeling discouraged because I felt like her first vet was good but I’m concerned that his treatment plan wasn’t solid.

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

Hopefully the lighting placement will help out some for her.
How much iron does the critical care/omnivore care have, it should specify on the label?
You could add some kelp for her to help with iron levels, or a little bit of blackstrap molasses a few
times per week. At least you have been able to get a decent amount of food & nutrition into her
without too much trouble.
Let us know how things are going for her!

Tracie

 

[Tay1Day]

Hello,

Hopefully the lighting placement will help out some for her.
How much iron does the critical care/omnivore care have, it should specify on the label?
You could add some kelp for her to help with iron levels, or a little bit of blackstrap molasses a few
times per week. At least you have been able to get a decent amount of food & nutrition into her
without too much trouble.
Let us know how things are going for her!

Tracie

Tracie,
I just reviewed the back of the package and I do not see any value for iron Do you have any recs on dragon safe kelp that I can add to her hand feeding regimen, and do you know how often she should be getting it? I can't believe I overlooked the iron with an anemic dragon. I've been so stressed for her.
I will be scheduling a full blood panel and X-ray with a second vet, as she is showing some signs of GNT that were overlooked by her prior vet and I really won't be able to sleep until I can at least rule that out. Anemia, lethargy, and lack of interest in food - it is really stressing me out. It's only been a week but I was hoping to see signs of improvement. Her first vet said it could be a slow process with her bouncing back.
I also checked her over after the exam last Monday and noticed a single damaged scale under her tail. Her vet advised her anemia could be caused by an infection - could all of this have stemmed from scale rot? It's improved drastically with the antibiotics she's on.

 

[Tay1Day]

Hello,

Hopefully the lighting placement will help out some for her.
How much iron does the critical care/omnivore care have, it should specify on the label?
You could add some kelp for her to help with iron levels, or a little bit of blackstrap molasses a few
times per week. At least you have been able to get a decent amount of food & nutrition into her
without too much trouble.
Let us know how things are going for her!

Tracie

Hi again, sorry for over-messaging!
I have scheduled an appointment for next week with her current vet to run a full blood panel and an X-ray. I can't schedule sooner, as we have a hurricane headed our way and Monday is Labor Day so their offices are closed until the storm clears up and the holiday passes. Would you also suggest an endoscopy?
I do not intend to allow her current vet to treat her further, but I would like to get her imaging and testing done through them because it is less expensive, and I will be bringing her results to another vet to get a second opinion on diagnosis and treatment.

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

Where in Florida are you located? I hope the storm fizzles out. We have lived in Florida, so, I know
the feeling.
An endoscopy would be helpful but it is somewhat invasive. If the vet is trained it should go pretty
smoothly. How is she doing today? Has she eaten much yet?
As long as the kelp is organic, it should be safe for reptile ingestion. I can try to check in my medical
books to see if there is a little more information on that.
You can also use a liquid mineral for her that has iron in it. She would only need a drop or two a few
times weekly. If you could find a liquid iron formula, it would be concentrated & probably easy to give.
You don't want to give too much though as that can cause constipation. That's why I had mentioned
natural sources like kelp or blackstrap molasses.
Let us know how she is doing.

Tracie

 

[Tay1Day]

Hello,

Where in Florida are you located? I hope the storm fizzles out. We have lived in Florida, so, I know
the feeling.
An endoscopy would be helpful but it is somewhat invasive. If the vet is trained it should go pretty
smoothly. How is she doing today? Has she eaten much yet?
As long as the kelp is organic, it should be safe for reptile ingestion. I can try to check in my medical
books to see if there is a little more information on that.
You can also use a liquid mineral for her that has iron in it. She would only need a drop or two a few
times weekly. If you could find a liquid iron formula, it would be concentrated & probably easy to give.
You don't want to give too much though as that can cause constipation. That's why I had mentioned
natural sources like kelp or blackstrap molasses.
Let us know how she is doing.

Tracie

Hi Tracie,
I seriously appreciate all of the advice. She’s still not eating on her own and is very lethargic. She spends every day sleeping in basking. I took her outside yesterday and she was a little perkier. Whenever I bring her out of her enclosure and hold her and watch tv with her or sit in the sun, she seems a bit better but I think it’s just because she wants to be alert when she isn’t safely in her little home. I’m going to ask her new vet next week what she suggests I do in terms of testing once we see her blood work back. I guess a full panel is step one. I’ll look into ways to get iron into her. Thank you so much!
PS. I’m in Sarasota, currently not in an evac zone and our power lines are under ground so I’m hoping we don’t lose power on top of everything else but if we do, should I not give her the antibiotic if she doesn’t have heat and uvb?

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

Ok, Sarasota, that should hopefully be safe there. If you do lose power, I wouldn't give any medication
so it doesn't upset her system by not being at the proper temperatures. Unless you can get her outdoors
for a good portion of the day.
I hope she is feeling better. No problem at all. Were you still looking at getting some kelp? I agree, the
full blood panel should be very helpful, initially.
Is her beard normal color & not dark at all? They do love to be held & love attention also. Keep us posted
on how she is doing!

Tracie

 

[Tay1Day]

Hello,

Ok, Sarasota, that should hopefully be safe there. If you do lose power, I wouldn't give any medication
so it doesn't upset her system by not being at the proper temperatures. Unless you can get her outdoors
for a good portion of the day.
I hope she is feeling better. No problem at all. Were you still looking at getting some kelp? I agree, the
full blood panel should be very helpful, initially.
Is her beard normal color & not dark at all? They do love to be held & love attention also. Keep us posted
on how she is doing!

Tracie

We're good in Sarasota! Just wasn't sure if it would make a turn like it sometimes does.
She actually seems perkier right now so I am cautiously optimistic.
I found an iron supplement (drops) for cats and dogs called Ourea Liquid Iron https://www.amazon.com/Liquid-Iron-...f=sr_1_1?keywords=Ourea&qid=1693405042&sr=8-1 it's pet friendly but caramel flavored. I am not sure if she can have this, so I did not order it. It seems like a lot of sugar for a dragon. Would you suggest maybe just a natural human friendly supplement? There are so many options for getting iron in her that I just can't figure out the best course of action.
I normally bring her outside with me on my screened patio so she can get some natural UVB. She black bearded for the second time since I got her in 2021 the other day while we were outside, but it wasn't super dark and as soon as I moved her from a pillow to be on my chest, she lightened back up.
She generally still seems very calm but a new symptom came up yesterday that I was worried about. She was gulping (not stretching her beard) and after a couple of gulps, she either would burp or dry heave from what it sounded like. She did this for about 20 minutes and then it stopped. My stepdaughter caught it on video. I'll post it from my phone in a moment. She hasn't done it since so I am wondering if she got air bubbles from the meds or critical care and was just releasing it, but it was still concerning.
She also pooped again, and continued to try to poop a second time but only a little bit came out.
Otherwise, she is as sweet and cuddly as ever. Just very lethargic.

 

[Tay1Day]

Hello,

Ok, Sarasota, that should hopefully be safe there. If you do lose power, I wouldn't give any medication
so it doesn't upset her system by not being at the proper temperatures. Unless you can get her outdoors
for a good portion of the day.
I hope she is feeling better. No problem at all. Were you still looking at getting some kelp? I agree, the
full blood panel should be very helpful, initially.
Is her beard normal color & not dark at all? They do love to be held & love attention also. Keep us posted
on how she is doing!

Tracie

This is the video I took of her, can’t find the one my stepdaughter took. I let her soak in about half an inch of warm water and cleaned her underside with water because she had run through her poop. I watched her the whole time and she didn’t drink any or get her nose under water. Please forgive my husbands burping in the background -.- she has since stopped doing this.

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

How is she doing? I hope you didn't get hit too hard by the hurricane!
She isn't doing the irregular breathing, etc right now? Perhaps she is a bit stressed?
Her colors look good, no black beard etc. Did you get any medication into her?

Let us know how she is doing.
Tracie

 

[Tay1Day]

Hello,

How is she doing? I hope you didn't get hit too hard by the hurricane!
She isn't doing the irregular breathing, etc right now? Perhaps she is a bit stressed?
Her colors look good, no black beard etc. Did you get any medication into her?

Let us know how she is doing.
Tracie

Yeah she’s breathing fine! We just got some rain and a little wind but nothing crazy.
I checked her for stress marks too and she’s all yellow. Breathing totally normal again.
Med day is today (every other day) so I’m going to give her meds in a couple hours once she’s had two hours of heat.
She actually perked up a bit over the last couple of days so I’m feeling good about this but I’m still getting a second opinion and a full panel just to rule any issues out. She’s not back to herself 100% but she’s sleeping less and holding her body up a lot better since Tuesday.
Thank you for checking in on us

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

That is good news, they can sure stress us to death!
At least you didn't get too much of the hit from the Hurricane. We went through Wilma when we lived
in Key West.....so, I know the feeling.
At least she has good color & seems to be feeling a little better right now. Keep us posted on her.

Tracie

 

[Tay1Day]

Hello,

That is good news, they can sure stress us to death!
At least you didn't get too much of the hit from the Hurricane. We went through Wilma when we lived
in Key West.....so, I know the feeling.
At least she has good color & seems to be feeling a little better right now. Keep us posted on her.

Tracie

Hi Tracie,
We just had our second blood panel done. Full reptile panel, and it will be sent to a lab instead of being done in house. I will have the results in a day or two.
She said she can fairly confidently rule out GNT because glucose levels were good and she didn't feel a mass or polyps in her abdomen, but if she still shows as anemic in her new blood work we will dig deeper and do more tests - an infusion is a possibility but she wants to see the results first.
New vet was super knowledgeable and I regret not seeing her first, I just didn't know how her first vet was going to be with her.
She agrees with the feeding formula I have concocted (lol) based on suggestions from this page and from my boss's niece (reptile specialist) and said she otherwise is super healthy.
In terms of Shenron, she has perked up significantly and doesn't sleep as much as she did so I am hoping between the Baytril and critical care, she is improving.
I will have her bloodwork back soon and will continue to update. Thank you so much for your help and advice.

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

Thanks, I will await the bloodtest results, that will be nice
to look over it. I'm glad that the vet is being helpful & seems
to be caring also. That is hard to find.
I agree, an infusion should be the last resort really. Hopefully
her system will recover & start increasing iron levels on her
own. Keep her hydrated while she is on the Baytril. The
critical care is very helpful for helping with weight gain & for
maintaining nutritional status.
That is absolutely terrific news her glucose levels were back
down or more normal which definitely decreases the suspicion
of GNT & they didn't find or see any tumors, etc.
I know you have to be relieved now!

Keep us posted on things.

Tracie

 

[Tay1Day]

Hello,

Thanks, I will await the bloodtest results, that will be nice
to look over it. I'm glad that the vet is being helpful & seems
to be caring also. That is hard to find.
I agree, an infusion should be the last resort really. Hopefully
her system will recover & start increasing iron levels on her
own. Keep her hydrated while she is on the Baytril. The
critical care is very helpful for helping with weight gain & for
maintaining nutritional status.
That is absolutely terrific news her glucose levels were back
down or more normal which definitely decreases the suspicion
of GNT & they didn't find or see any tumors, etc.
I know you have to be relieved now!

Keep us posted on things.

Tracie

Tracie,
I have some awesome news! Blood work came back yesterday. Here's what I've learned:
- She is no longer anemic!
- Her organ function is great. Kidney function is a little low but the vet was not concerned, she would have been more worried if it was high.
- She does have a slightly elevated WBC count - it's around 55, and the vet said over 75 can confirm an infection, so she may have a mild infection or inflammation.
- Calcium-phos ratio is good. Glucose levels are extremely low, within healthy range, and she said she can now confidently rule out GNT.
- Physically, her teeth, mouth, and throat show no signs of infection or inflammation.
- She wasn't too concerned about the damaged/rotten scale on her tail. She said it should come off with her next shed.
- She sent us home with antibiotic injections, to be administered every 72 hours.
- Since the baytril, Shenron has perked up and is sleeping much less than she previously was. She is still lethargic and not showing much interest in food, so I am continuing to hand feed her. She is pooping regularly, but I purchased probiotics for her to mix into her hand feeding slurry.

My question now, and this is something I forgot to ask her vet, is if she could possibly have gout or arthritis? I am wondering if that's the source of the inflammation. Her joints don't look swollen, but I'm not sure how it presents in reptiles. Would that show up in some way in her bloodwork?

It was just a thought that came up for me. I do see a lot of older beardies suffering from gout and arthritis, and we don't use loose substrate (I use the Zen mat - I may switch to bio-active once we get everything under control,) so it's definitely something I am concerned about, but her vet didn't mention it. I think she is waiting for us to finish her antibiotic injections to determine what another cause may be.