Tay1Day

Member
Beardie name(s)
Shenron
Forgive me if this is posted elsewhere, but I cannot find any other threads where anemia is treated with Baytril.

I got my girl Shenron from my sister in 2021. In that time, I have learned a lot. We gradually went on a diet with assistance from her vet because, as an adult BD, she was being given too many bugs. She has lost 41 grams since I first got her, and is currently 531 grams. She's still a big girl, but we're working on it.

Shenron started showing signs of illness about a month ago. She became lethargic and would not eat anything besides super worms. Her tongue and gums became extremely pale. I started using worms to trick her into eating her greens. She is on a calcium with/without D3 and vitamin regimen (vitamins once a week, calcium with and without D3 the rest of the week, not combined with vitamins.)

I took Shenron to an exotics vet this past Monday (it's Friday now). It took a while because they only have one exotics vet in their office and he was extremely booked up, but I got her in as soon as I knew something was wrong. They ran a fecal and a basic blood panel. She has some pinworms, but not a high amount. She is, however, anemic. The vet advised it may be due to an infection, but did not indicate what kind and did not seem to stress any urgency in her current situation. He said she was a "fine specimen" and well cared for, and otherwise healthy. She is approx. 9 years old.

Her vet gave her a dose of wormer but did not send me home with any. Her vet also prescribed her Baytril. He did not have the liquid, so he told me to quarter the 22mg chewable tablets, mix with a small amount of water, and administer via syringe every other day. He also suggested to feed her Kaytee baby bird hand feeding formula, as she is not currently eating much due to her lethargy. As BD's are omnivores, I reached out to a reptile specialist for a second opinion and she advised to give her Critical Care Omnivore formula instead, so I have been creating a slurry of that plus collard greens/dandelion greens + a small amount of her calcium.

The vet she is seeing does not seem super knowledgeable about BD's - he gave me a LOT of dated husbandry and care advice that I will not be following. We are re-testing her blood at the same clinic Sept 15th, but I will be taking her elsewhere for treatment if her red blood cell count is still low. In the meantime, I will be bringing her to a different exotics vet who seems to be more qualified to treating reptiles for yet another opinion and a full blood panel with organ function.

Temps and husbandry info are all on my profile, but to my understanding, she is all good there. Since her calcium and phos levels were good, the vet advised that her husbandry is not the issue. I just need to know if this treatment plan sounds solid to you guys. Has anyone else had a dragon bounce back from anemia? What was the cause and treatment plan?

I know a lot about these guys, but I am not a vet and I don't see anything online about treating anemia as an infection with Baytril, and I am scared that if this is not the correct plan, she will suffer for longer and won't recover.

I am bringing her to the other vet next week. It was the soonest we could be seen.

Money is no object. She is my everything and I will do anything it takes to get her better, even if it means opening up a line of credit and maxing a card out. I don't care. I just want to help her. Seeing her so sick and lethargic breaks my heart.

Thank you all in advance. I sincerely hope I am doing the right thing for her. I'm doing everything I possibly can, and I am being extremely careful with the advice I take.
 

KarrieRee

BD.org Sicko
Beardie name(s)
Hiccup he is 6 and Blaze is 5
Forgive me if this is posted elsewhere, but I cannot find any other threads where anemia is treated with Baytril.

I got my girl Shenron from my sister in 2021. In that time, I have learned a lot. We gradually went on a diet with assistance from her vet because, as an adult BD, she was being given too many bugs. She has lost 41 grams since I first got her, and is currently 531 grams. She's still a big girl, but we're working on it.

Shenron started showing signs of illness about a month ago. She became lethargic and would not eat anything besides super worms. Her tongue and gums became extremely pale. I started using worms to trick her into eating her greens. She is on a calcium with/without D3 and vitamin regimen (vitamins once a week, calcium with and without D3 the rest of the week, not combined with vitamins.)

I took Shenron to an exotics vet this past Monday (it's Friday now). It took a while because they only have one exotics vet in their office and he was extremely booked up, but I got her in as soon as I knew something was wrong. They ran a fecal and a basic blood panel. She has some pinworms, but not a high amount. She is, however, anemic. The vet advised it may be due to an infection, but did not indicate what kind and did not seem to stress any urgency in her current situation. He said she was a "fine specimen" and well cared for, and otherwise healthy. She is approx. 9 years old.

Her vet gave her a dose of wormer but did not send me home with any. Her vet also prescribed her Baytril. He did not have the liquid, so he told me to quarter the 22mg chewable tablets, mix with a small amount of water, and administer via syringe every other day. He also suggested to feed her Kaytee baby bird hand feeding formula, as she is not currently eating much due to her lethargy. As BD's are omnivores, I reached out to a reptile specialist for a second opinion and she advised to give her Critical Care Omnivore formula instead, so I have been creating a slurry of that plus collard greens/dandelion greens + a small amount of her calcium.

The vet she is seeing does not seem super knowledgeable about BD's - he gave me a LOT of dated husbandry and care advice that I will not be following. We are re-testing her blood at the same clinic Sept 15th, but I will be taking her elsewhere for treatment if her red blood cell count is still low. In the meantime, I will be bringing her to a different exotics vet who seems to be more qualified to treating reptiles for yet another opinion and a full blood panel with organ function.

Temps and husbandry info are all on my profile, but to my understanding, she is all good there. Since her calcium and phos levels were good, the vet advised that her husbandry is not the issue. I just need to know if this treatment plan sounds solid to you guys. Has anyone else had a dragon bounce back from anemia? What was the cause and treatment plan?

I know a lot about these guys, but I am not a vet and I don't see anything online about treating anemia as an infection with Baytril, and I am scared that if this is not the correct plan, she will suffer for longer and won't recover.

I am bringing her to the other vet next week. It was the soonest we could be seen.

Money is no object. She is my everything and I will do anything it takes to get her better, even if it means opening up a line of credit and maxing a card out. I don't care. I just want to help her. Seeing her so sick and lethargic breaks my heart.

Thank you all in advance. I sincerely hope I am doing the right thing for her. I'm doing everything I possibly can, and I am being extremely careful with the advice I take.
Omnivore is good - if you have the blood test please post and we can have Tracie look at them and she can help you there- I would lower the uvb down to 13 inches directly above the basking decor
@Drache613
 

Tay1Day

Member
Original Poster
Beardie name(s)
Shenron
Omnivore is good - if you have the blood test please post and we can have Tracie look at them and she can help you there- I would lower the uvb down to 13 inches directly above the basking decor
@Drache613
Thank you for responding! I can lift her platform closer to basking/UVB. Her basking is on a dimmer, so I can regulate the temp with that. I was told that for Arcadia inside the enclosure, it should be 16-20 inches above your dragon but I will try getting her closer to it. I am having issues attaching a photo so here are her results:
GLU: 178 mg/dL
URIC: 3.0 mg/dL
PHOS: 4.6 mg/dL (a vet tech friend of mine said this may be a little high - I need confirmation on that)
AST: 41 U/L
CA: 10.6 mg/dL
 

KarrieRee

BD.org Sicko
Beardie name(s)
Hiccup he is 6 and Blaze is 5
Thank you for responding! I can lift her platform closer to basking/UVB. I was told that for Arcadia inside the enclosure, it should be 16-20 inches above your dragon but I will try getting her closer to it. I am having issues attaching a photo so here are her results:
GLU: 178 mg/dL
URIC: 3.0 mg/dL
PHOS: 4.6 mg/dL (a vet tech friend of mine said this may be a little high - I need confirmation on that)
AST: 41 U/L
CA: 10.6 mg/dL
For a 14% bulb that distance is ok but 12% bulbs 12-15 - if she's having mobility issues please lower it to 13 watch how she does
 

Tay1Day

Member
Original Poster
Beardie name(s)
Shenron
For a 14% bulb that distance is ok but 12% bulbs 12-15 - if she's having mobility issues please lower it to 13 watch how she does
Ok! I have it on picture wire so I can easily lower the UVB as well - it is as 12% so I am definitely too far from her, and was given the wrong info. She is currently able to get to her platform easily, but she is lethargic and I don't want her to have to work too hard to get up there, I will lower it when I get home from work.
 

Tay1Day

Member
Original Poster
Beardie name(s)
Shenron
For a 14% bulb that distance is ok but 12% bulbs 12-15 - if she's having mobility issues please lower it to 13 watch how she does
I just had my husband measure the distance from her back to UVB and it's roughly 13 inches - her basking slate is affixed via aquarium safe sealant to a magnetic ledge that I recently flipped over about 2 months ago, causing the distance to be a bit closer because the bottom side is now taller. I measured when the basking area was lower to the ground - so her UVB distance has been good, and I just didn't re-check my measurements because I didn't think they changed when I flipped her ledge...I'm not sure what else to do for her :/
 

KarrieRee

BD.org Sicko
Beardie name(s)
Hiccup he is 6 and Blaze is 5
I just had my husband measure the distance from her back to UVB and it's roughly 13 inches - her basking slate is affixed via aquarium safe sealant to a magnetic ledge that I recently flipped over about 2 months ago, causing the distance to be a bit closer because the bottom side is now taller. I measured when the basking area was lower to the ground - so her UVB distance has been good, and I just didn't re-check my measurements because I didn't think they changed when I flipped her ledge...I'm not sure what else to do for her :/
Ok how old is the bulb
 

Tay1Day

Member
Original Poster
Beardie name(s)
Shenron
I recommend 10-11 months
Noted - I'll hold off on replacing until we're closer to 10 months. That saves us some money lol. But yeah, her UVB is reasonably new. I have a few UVB test cards from Arcadia that help you ensure that it's still producing sufficient UVB - is that reliable, or should I buy a solarmeter?
 

KarrieRee

BD.org Sicko
Beardie name(s)
Hiccup he is 6 and Blaze is 5
Noted - I'll hold off on replacing until we're closer to 10 months. That saves us some money lol. But yeah, her UVB is reasonably new. I have a few UVB test cards from Arcadia that help you ensure that it's still producing sufficient UVB - is that reliable, or should I buy a solarmeter?
Solar meters are the best
 

Drache613

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
Hello,

Thanks for posting the blood work.
As far as the phosphorus levels, they aren't too bad but it should probably be a little lower. The
calcium to phosphorus ratios should be around 2:1 or 3:1 for a better balance in the blood. Insects
are naturally high in phosphorus but you can use some silkworms or hornworms which are lower in
phosphorus.
The Uric acid levels look good also. The AST levels are a little elevated but you should be able to
bring them down. The liver has regenerative properties so hopefully it can heal up with a good diet
& supplementation.
I haven't really heard much of using Baytril for anemia. Unless there was an infection which was present
that the Baytril would treat.
The Solar Meters are definitely the best. Those UVB test cards are ok, but not nearly as accurate as
the Solar Meters. As Karrie has suggested, try to get the UVB light a little closer to her, for helping her
get stronger UVB exposure.

Tracie
 

Tay1Day

Member
Original Poster
Beardie name(s)
Shenron
Hello,

Thanks for posting the blood work.
As far as the phosphorus levels, they aren't too bad but it should probably be a little lower. The
calcium to phosphorus ratios should be around 2:1 or 3:1 for a better balance in the blood. Insects
are naturally high in phosphorus but you can use some silkworms or hornworms which are lower in
phosphorus.
The Uric acid levels look good also. The AST levels are a little elevated but you should be able to
bring them down. The liver has regenerative properties so hopefully it can heal up with a good diet
& supplementation.
I haven't really heard much of using Baytril for anemia. Unless there was an infection which was present
that the Baytril would treat.
The Solar Meters are definitely the best. Those UVB test cards are ok, but not nearly as accurate as
the Solar Meters. As Karrie has suggested, try to get the UVB light a little closer to her, for helping her
get stronger UVB exposure.

Tracie
Thank you so much! She’s currently 13 inches away from her UVB - do you think she should be closer? It’s an Arcadia T5 12%
 

Drache613

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
Hello,

Great, the 13 inches should be just fine for her. Is she liking the lighting adjustments, or can you
tell yet?
Keep us posted on her. I hope she starts doing better.

Tracie
 

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