Advice for increasing chances of survival?

[Lambtor]

I really appreciate the link to the ponazuril. I was worried I wouldn't be able to get it without a vet prescribing it. If he does miraculously pull through, I'll use this instead of the Albon.

On that note... I'd be shocked if he made it through the night. He's started black bearding w/black tail tip and he just seems a lot weaker today. I'm preparing for the worst now, but I'm still trying to keep him alive. He got 1 ml of ReptaBoost and 1 ml of Critical care today + BeneBac. He's not really interested in oral fluids anymore.

I did get a picture of his poop. It also didn't smell like digested food at all.

The actual poop wasn't quite so yellow; lighting just made it look so.

 

[AHBD]

Your pic didn't show, here's how to post :
https://www.beardeddragon.org/useruploads/ Then use the XIMG to upload them

Can you post a few pics of Jub Jub as well ? Is this vet the same one that originally gave him all these meds. ? If so, too bad he/she doesn't seem to realize how sick your dragon is because of their unauthorized medicating with this terrible drug that hardly any vet would use on a reptile in this day + age. Trying to cover their tracks now by saying it's parasites causing this horrible situation..

 

[AHBD]

It's going to be odd looking like that because all he's eating is the Critcal Care if I remember correctly. His poo is going to be way off because of his condition, that can be expected.

 

[Lambtor]

Got it. I made a typo on the img code, it should show now.

Here's what he looks like now. Apologies for the blurriness on the second picture. I have already disturbed him a bunch of times this afternoon/evening and I was rushing to get him back in the terrarium.

 

[AHBD]

Aw I'm sorry, you could have left him in the tank for a picture. Poor guy does look very ill but there's still hope.

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

UGH, poor guy, he does not feel well at all!
Do try to get some pedialyte into him, for rehydration. He is very dehydrated from all of the
meds that have been given. Also, you can try to detox him with parsley, cilantro & kale mixed
up with some activated charcoal. It can help to bind toxins & flush them out of the system.
I simply don't understand why this vet is still insisting on medicating? Can they not see how ill
he is because of overmedicating? How unbelievably frustrating...this whole thing is the vet's
fault!
As long as he gets some heating/basking & UVB in, it's ok to let him to go to the cooler end so
he doesn't get overheated.
I hope he is feeling better real soon. Getting fluids into him is crucial right now.

Let us know how he is doing.
Tracie

 

[Lambtor]

He's still with us this morning, though his condition has not improved. I was able to get a little Benebac and about 1ml of Critical Care into him this morning. He's still lapping up food when I get it in his lips, but I can tell he really doesn't want to eat. He's also trying to find the coolest spots in his terrarium and doesn't want to bask at all. He's a tough little guy, but I feel like it's only a matter of time now. I think he's probably rather dehydrated now, but he's not willingly drinking and I'm afraid to force oral liquids. I don't know if another trip to the vet for fluids is a great idea for him in his condition, or even a fool's errand at this point. I wish I had better news.

 

[AHBD]

You might try for another dose of sub-q fluids. It's up to you and I really for you, such a tough thing to go through.

 

[Lambtor]

Made a tech appointment to get him more fluids this evening after I make it home from work. Hopefully he's still hanging on by then.

 

[EllenD]

This is just awful, what is wrong with this vet? Unreal. As AHBD said, she probably Googled "Ivermectin for Bearded Dragons" and realized the horrible mistake she made, now she's trying to cover her butt by saying it's parasites, when in fact the Ivermectin poisoning is what caused the rise in his parasite loads. She has to know that you know that he was 100% fine when you first brought him in for a routine fecal test to be done...sign...he is very dehydrated, so I'm glad you made an appointment for sub-q fluids, seriously, you need to ask the Tech about you giving him the Sub-Q injections at home daily. It's easy, and I've not every heard of a vet that wouldn't agree to give you pre-filled syringes to take home with you, as the stress of the vet trip is not good for him at all, it would be much better if you could just give him the Sub-Q fluid injections at home. It's very easy to do and would take 10 minutes for you to learn how to do from the Tech.

Don't lose hope here, the last Dragon with Ivermectin poisoning we had lived, and she was in just as bad a shape as your guy is now, it was all about forcing daily sub-q fluids and any Critical Care you can get in him, along with a dose of Activate Charcoal and parsley as Tracie suggested to help flush remaining toxins out of her system. She pulled through, your guy can too, but you really need to force fluids daily, because that's his main issue right now, that's why he doesn't want to bask and has no energy, and a daily subcutaneous fluid injection would do wonders for him, if he could get an injection daily he would more than likely make a quick turn-around.

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

Oh poor thing, he is still hanging on but definitely not feeling well! Keep trying to get
foods into him to help keep his strength up.
I would opt for subcutaneous fluids, but absolutely nothing else! No meds, no nothing.
I don't know what is wrong with that vet, but I am quite sure by now, she realizes that
the meds are the culprit but the damage is done.
The hydration is the most important part because the Ivermectin has zapped his system
& the only thing that will help is to flush it out as best as possible.
We are all pulling for him. Let us know how he is doing.

Tracie

 

[AHBD]

How's he doing tonight ? And I agree with + was thinking the same as Ellen, see if you can do the sub-q at home. The vet can show you how.

 

[Lambtor]

He's actually just perked up again a tiny bit, after coming back from getting fluids. He's currently in his basking area again (went there willingly!) and holding his head up, albeit with his eyes closed mostly. He's actually opening them a teeeeeensy bit more than he has been, but it is his normal bedtime now so I don't expect him to be super alert anyway. He was actually pretty resistant to his second feeding this evening so I was only able to get about .5 additional ml of ensure/reptaboost mixture into him.

The vet tech offered to show me how to do his fluids as I was checking out, so I think next time I go in (probably Saturday?) they're going to walk me through it. I actually don't do very well with needles and he's so little, so I'm not sure how well I'll handle it but I gotta try.

While I was at work, I think he probably spent most of his time chilling in his water dish trying to stay cool. While in there he pooped-- probably the most normal looking poop I have seen in days:

He's still got a black beard, but I think it's at least partially due to the stress of me taking him to the vet again and then shoving syringes of food in his mouth. I guess we'll just take it day by day.

 

[EllenD]

This is a good thing, the fluids are obviously helping him pretty directly, so this is a very positive sign that he's got a very good chance of pulling through this, but as you already stated, you've got to just learn to do the injections at home, as definitely the stress of the trip to the vet is counterproductive to his recovery. If you can simply give him the sub-q injection at home daily then I have no doubt he'll pull through this, as his appetite will pick up the more fluid you get in him, and the more he basks under his UVB. It's a tiny, tiny little needle, and you're not injecting much at all, it takes only seconds to inject, and it's very easy. It's not painful to them either, it's such a small needle, and doing it at home will remove most of the stress of the situation. The less you have to move him the better. You can do it!

And as Tracie already said and I'm going to reinforce, NO MEDS AT ALL RIGHT NOW! NONE! NOTHING! No antibiotics, no anti-parasitics, nothing!!!! All that will do is put him right back down the spiral he is now starting to come out of, and could likely kill him after only a single dose. Any appetite that he's gaining back will disappear. And besides all of that, any medications right now are totally unnecessary, as he has no bacterial infection at all, and the Coccidia count/load will naturally lower once his immune system is strong again. So he needs no meds at all, nor can his body handle any. And if that vet keeps insisting that his problem is a bacterial infection and he needs the Cipro, or that it's the Coccidia that is causing this, just say "I appreciate your opinion, but I'm choosing to not medicate him right now"....or you can take the meds home and not give them to him, but I wouldn't spend the money on the meds, and in addition, if you did that this vet is going to think that she was correct and the reason he recovered was because of the meds. The other side to this situation is that this vet needs to learn a lesson here so she doesn't poison any other reptiles like she did, and so she doesn't then make them worse by medicating them for infections they don't have or for parasite loads that are only elevated because of the poison she gave them. It's amazing that daily fluids and some Critical Care can correct what she did...

That's the other thing, keep pushing the Critical Care, he needs the nutrition in addition to the fluids. I know he doesn't like it, but he needs it. And usually the more you get in them, the more their natural appetite comes back...

 

[Lambtor]

Unfortunately he's not any better this morning; I think he's actually declined. He really didn't want to take any food this morning, I couldn't get even a full .5ml in him. He feels limp when I hold him, and he can't even grip my shirt well anymore when I put him on my chest. Just a couple days ago he was still wanting to climb up my arms and on to my shoulder when I held him. I'll try to feed him again when I get home.