Adopted Beardy Circling and Off Balance

[tom229]

Hello all,

I have been interested in bearded dragons for some time. I decided instead of purchasing a new one I would see if there was one I could adopt. I ended up getting a good little guy named Steve who was days away from being abandoned.

His behavior worries me though. He is about 3-4 years old (the guy didnt know.. in fact the guys not even 100% sure steve is a boy). Basically all he does is sleep. When I wake him up and get him under the heat lamp he pops to life. But then all he does is circles... always counter clockwise. Whether in his cage or out... he circles. If he runs straight for a bit its very off balanced. He seems to always have his head tilted to the left.. always. I looked up videos of other beardys and he just doesnt move like them at all.. something is off.

Im wondering:
First off.. he's really small.. only about 15" with tail. The guy who had him before never fed him vegetables or fruit.. only super worms occasionally dusted with calcium and never gut loaded. He didn't have an under tank heater (we live in alberta.. its gets to -35C at night sometimes) and didnt have a basking log for him.

Im really worried about him. I'm worried his previous owners uninformed care might be the cause of this.
I'm wondering is it possible he's malnourished or something? Did he have a night that was too cold and got brain damage? Anyone ever hear of this off balance, circling behaviour before?

 

[protiemama]

So sorry Steve is having troubles. I'm no expert but it sounds like a calcium defency (sp) to me. Do you have a uvb bulb and if so what kind. Did he get any uvb before you got him? Also what are his temps and how are you taking them? Are you dusting his food w/t calcium, and what does he eat for you? I know I seem nosie but these are two very important things in figuring out his trouble. If you get his temp readings from one of these stick on type thermometer the readings could be as much as 20 degrees off. :shock:
I hope Tracie of Vickie sees your post soon this is really a prob for their expertise. Post all the info you can think of and a picture of Steve and his viv if you can the more info they have the better they can help you.
I'll check back with you in the morning. I'm in TN and it is getting late here.

Sandy H

 

[tom229]

So sorry Steve is having troubles. I'm no expert but it sounds like a calcium defency (sp) to me. Do you have a uvb bulb and if so what kind. Did he get any uvb before you got him? Also what are his temps and how are you taking them? Are you dusting his food w/t calcium, and what does he eat for you? I know I seem nosie but these are two very important things in figuring out his trouble. If you get his temp readings from one of these stick on type thermometer the readings could be as much as 20 degrees off. :shock:
I hope Tracie of Vickie sees your post soon this is really a prob for their expertise. Post all the info you can think of and a picture of Steve and his viv if you can the more info they have the better they can help you.
I'll check back with you in the morning. I'm in TN and it is getting late here.

Sandy H

No... absolutely nose away Sandy. I'm really worried about him so I'll take any advice I can get.
I actually took some pictures and video today coincidently. Also I got the images of his habitat for you:

Here is a good video of his spinning. Im a little ashamed I giggled a bit at the end. He was trying to run towards me so badly and was just circling backwards. I look at it now and its actually kind of sad.
http://www.bensonit.com/steve/vid00005.avi

I think this picture shows a good example of the sideways head I'm talking about. Always to the left.
http://www.bensonit.com/steve/img00059.jpg

This is the cold side of his habitat. You can see the salad I just put in there moments ago. He is sleeping so I cant tell if he'll eat it or not. So far he has never had a vegetable in his 3-4 year life:
http://www.bensonit.com/steve/img00062.jpg

And this is the warm side. You can see him sleeping in the corner. Sleeping is all this guy ever does.
http://www.bensonit.com/steve/img00063.jpg

I do have a UVB bulb. It's an ExoTerra Repti-Glo 8.0 UVB 15W 18". This bulb came with him and indications suggest he was using it before. I know the guy that had him before me worked from home so would let him roam the office most of the day. Exactly how much UVB rays the dragon was getting I do not know. I leave it on all day while I'm at work. But I've only had him 3 days.

I have been dusting his food with calcium. I've had him for 3 days. The first day he was fed by his owner so was not hungry. I read some bad things about superworms (mostly their ability to bite) so I went out looking for mealworms. The local pet store didnt have any mealworms but had King Mealworms. I bought them later finding out they are really the same family as superworms and not mealworms at all. Regardless I have ordered him some mealworms from the internet and have to feed him something until they arrive. Regardless I have gotten him to eat aprox 12 King Mealworms today that were lightly dusted in calcium (they don't seem to dust very well). I have two temperature guages stuck to the sides of the tank. I'm sorry to hear these arent accurate but I kind of figured anyways. The cold side reads 70F. The warm side, with heat lamp on reads 100F... but only if the heat lamp is above it. When the heat lamp is in front of it it read around 80F.

What kind of thermometer should I buy to get more accurate readings? There was a digital one in the pet store with some kind of probe on a wire. Is that better?

Thanks very much again for your time.

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

Usually head tilting can be caused by several things such as dehydration, malnutrition, hypocalcemia, hypoglycemia, viral or bacterial infection, or head trauma.
I am guessing it will most likely be dehydration or hypocalcemia (low calcium) which could be due to inadequate UVB exposure.
There is a good chance that he did not change the Reptiglo 8 flourescent tube bulb for a long time, & they need to be changed every 5 months. So if you can find out how old it is that would help. If he doesn't know, you will need to get a new one because chances are it is way way too old. The best flourescent tube bulb is the Reptisun 10 flourescent tube bulb. You can get one for around $20 at:
http://www.petmountain.com
Your basking light, is it a bright white light? It will need to be placed directly beside the UVB tube.
You can get a digital probe or a temp gun to check the temperatures & they will be much more accurate than the stick on types you have. You can get the digital probe acurite brand from walmart, or from:
http://www.reptilesupply.com
If you want a temp gun you can get one from:
http://www.reptileuv.com

The mealies are not very nutritious I hate to say. Supers don't bite really but they have tiny pinchers. However, once they grab them they crush their heads when chewing anyway & they wont bite them. As long as he is 15-16 inches, he can have superworms.
So, you will need to limit the mealies because they are too fatty to be used as a sole staple. Crickets, superworms, roaches, phoenix worms, hornworms, silkworms, or butterworms are all good feeders. Mealies & waxworms can be used as treats, but not for everyday staples. Too much fat can contribute to fatty liver disease.
I have used superworms for years, with no problems at all.

Tracie

 

[mischa]

Also check for mites, when my beardie was small he did the same thing, turns out when I bought him he had mites! Treated them and the circling and off balanced running stopped.

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

Yeah mites probably made him slightly anemic. Was he badly infested?

Tracie

 

[mischa]

He had a mild cause of theses little red mites, but I got rid of them easily with repti-mite!

 

[protiemama]

Tom- I see you are in expert hands now. Tracie confirmed what I was thinking.
I'd order some Phoenix worms for him. They are a bit expensive but loaded with calcium and dragons just love them. Sometimes Petsmart or Petco has them. You can get some that way till your shipment arrives.
You probably need to give him a bath. I bet the poor little guy has never had a bath in his life! :shock: Just use baby bath warm water up to his armpits. Make sure he has a towel or washcloth in the bottom to grip.
If your weather is deacent you could take him outside and hold him in the sun. That will get him some uvb until your bulb gets in. Good luck

Sandy H

 

[Sherrydrgn]

If it was a calcium deficiency, I don't think it would be running around in circles. I think it would just sit tight. Although, the heat cushions joints so maybe thats why he does it when he's under the heat. Hmmm VET i say asap

 

[beardlover]

I do have a UVB bulb. It's an ExoTerra Repti-Glo 8.0 UVB 15W 18". This bulb came with him and indications suggest he was using it before. I know the guy that had him before me worked from home so would let him roam the office most of the day. Exactly how much UVB rays the dragon was getting I do not know. I leave it on all day while I'm at work. But I've only had him 3 days.



What kind of thermometer should I buy to get more accurate readings? There was a digital one in the pet store with some kind of probe on a wire. Is that better?

How old is your bulb? They need to be swaped out about every 6 months. Just because the light turns on doesn't mean it's giving out UVB.
The digital with probe works great, most/some also will give you a humidity reading. You can also use a temp. gun to get an accurate reading.

 

[Drache613]

Hello!

Any updates for us today, how is he doing? Has he eaten anything today?
Please let us know how he is doing.

Tracie

 

[tom229]

Yes I am in good hands. I would like to thank everyone for their help. I have been meticulously researching this issue, of which there is very limited information... surprisingly.

From your great help, and other sites, I have determined this could be several hypocalcemia, dehydration, malnutrition, mites, inner ear infection, or even a brain tumor.

From his history I would assume this is either dehydration, since I never see him drink, malnutrition, since he's never had vegetables, or hypocalcemia since he may have had limited UVB exposure in the past. I can check for mites when I get home, inner ear infections are reported to be very rare, and we will just hope it's not a brain tumor.

I'm going out tonight to get him a healthy dose of vegetables, some phoenix worms (petland has them set aside for me), and a Reptisun bulb... if I can find one. I plan on keeping his UVB light on 24/7 (he sleeps all day whether its on or not).

If I can manage to get him to try vegetables this should.. hopefully.. correct the calcium issue, or the malnutrition.

My followup questions are:
What is the best calcium suppliment to use? I believe right now I am use Fluker's calium with D3 and beta cerotine.
How do I correct dehydration? I don't see him drink at all.
Is there anything I can do for an ear infection? Can I give him anti-bacterial drops that are meant for a human?

Thanks again.
By the way... the heat lamp is a bright white light and I will purchase a better thermometer tonight to check his temps.

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

Yes, it could be a tumor, or menningitis possibly, but, they are very rare. Really, inner ear infections are quite rare too.
So I will agree, it would have to be one of the other possibilities. It is more feasible.
Try correcting the lighting, & work on the nutrition & we will continue to monitor him.
The Flukers calcium with D3 is fine, as long as it does not have any phosphorus in it. It has beta carotene in it also? So is this a vitamin with calcium in it? Or a straight calcium with D3?
I would still turn the UVB light off overnight. Low lighting coupled with a flourescent tube UVB can hurt his eyes. Light will disturb his sleep though.
A 12 hour light cycle will be good enough right now. A halogen bulb is a great basking light & it is very bright & it gets hot, also.
I hope you were able to find the Reptisun 10. If not, you can get it from here:
http://www.petmountain.com/category/286/1/reptile-fluorescent-bulbs.html

Please keep us posted. I hope he is feeling better soon.

Tracie

 

[beardlover]

For the dehydration issue...

Start giving him baths. Can be in the tub or in a tupperware container or similar tub. Luke warm water (as if for a baby or small child) up to about his armpits. Beardies take in water through their vent so as long as the water covers his vent it will be fine. About 15-20 minutes a day. And remember, accidents only take a second, never leave your beardie alone in the tub!

Good luck with everything!

 

[Freeie]

You can bathe a beardie in luke warm water up to their armpits for 20 mins this keeps them hydrated. Everyone does this diffrently I give all my beardies baths everyday time frames are diffrent. Babys get them everyday for 10 mins due to the higher basking temps. Older ones get 20 mins soaking time 3 days a week. The older ones get a bath every morning intill they poo which isnt long usually 2 to 5 mins.They poo in the water that means they dont poo in their vivs if your lucky. If you think he is dehydrated you can also use clear gatoraid and water. I used really warm water and added the gatoraid in to cool it off intill luke warm. I did it about 1/2 n 1/2 im not realy sure if you do it in 100% or not i just guessed. But after you bathe them in that you will need to give them a good wash off.