Coccidia /Albon not working

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Re: Coccidia /Albon not working

Postby hill202 » Sun Aug 13, 2017 12:55 am

In regards to the fecals, I know that there is more to it than what I am doing but the correlation between what I am seeing on the fecal and her behavior is very easy to see.

High count = head down, not eating, low energy, eventual blood in stools.
Low count = the direct opposite of the above

King, you are probably correct in that I'm either not getting things properly decontaminated or this med can't cure it alone.( although there are hundreds of success stories online)

Because of the duration of this issue, I may have created a "super" bug.

I talked with the Vet yesterday. She said there was nothing else she could do. She advised that I should take her to the "Specialist" that she has been speaking with about it. This person is at Auburn University...3hrs away.

If this is the person that she has been consulting, how is me taking her there going to change anything? They confirmed coccidia in the fecal test that they did.

I wonder if I could try to get better pics of the fecals and email them to someone.
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Re: Coccidia /Albon not working

Postby kingofnobbys » Sun Aug 13, 2017 2:27 am

Image

This version is less vague to use , if your beardie is 50g simply read off the dose in ml (cc) .

I also read at the manufacturer's website the shelf life is 5 years .... the use by date should be imprinted on the bottle somewhere too .
If it is indeed 3 years past it's use by date , this is a concern. (Should never have sent it to you.)


I have a friend / ex-colleague who I used work with who has retrained as a pharmacist , I've asked him about the implications of using your med after the use by date , he says the effectiveness will be degraded (the effective ingredient breaks down).
Last edited by kingofnobbys on Sun Aug 13, 2017 3:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
CBDs: Puff ( RIP 10Dec2015 (3.2 years old (aneurism)) ,Rex (RIP 16Mar2017 at 4.6 yrs old (unexplained death)) , both adopted at 6wks old..Toothless & Peppa : (5 wks old 19dec2015).
Eastern BT Skinks : George & Mildred (born Sept 2010).
Eastern Water Skinks : Lucky (wild juvenile), rescued from a cat.Taken by a SI and far too soon, 9mths with us. RIP 21Jul2010.Wriggles - (rescued injured), small lizard thought she was a big lizard, 7-8 yrs old, died in her sleep, RIP 2Feb2016.)
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Re: Coccidia /Albon not working

Postby kingofnobbys » Sun Aug 13, 2017 3:05 am

hill202 wrote:In regards to the fecals, I know that there is more to it than what I am doing but the correlation between what I am seeing on the fecal and her behavior is very easy to see.

High count = head down, not eating, low energy, eventual blood in stools.
Low count = the direct opposite of the above

King, you are probably correct in that I'm either not getting things properly decontaminated or this med can't cure it alone.( although there are hundreds of success stories online)

Because of the duration of this issue, I may have created a "super" bug.

I talked with the Vet yesterday. She said there was nothing else she could do. She advised that I should take her to the "Specialist" that she has been speaking with about it. This person is at Auburn University...3hrs away.

If this is the person that she has been consulting, how is me taking her there going to change anything? They confirmed coccidia in the fecal test that they did.

I wonder if I could try to get better pics of the fecals and email them to someone.


May be able to teleconsult (by Skype) and sending him your samples.
CBDs: Puff ( RIP 10Dec2015 (3.2 years old (aneurism)) ,Rex (RIP 16Mar2017 at 4.6 yrs old (unexplained death)) , both adopted at 6wks old..Toothless & Peppa : (5 wks old 19dec2015).
Eastern BT Skinks : George & Mildred (born Sept 2010).
Eastern Water Skinks : Lucky (wild juvenile), rescued from a cat.Taken by a SI and far too soon, 9mths with us. RIP 21Jul2010.Wriggles - (rescued injured), small lizard thought she was a big lizard, 7-8 yrs old, died in her sleep, RIP 2Feb2016.)
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Re: Coccidia /Albon not working

Postby AHBD » Sun Aug 13, 2017 3:51 am

There are articles that I can't post here for some reason [ error code ] but they all say that medicines are good for long after the expiration date. Please just Google " Drug expiration dates, do they mean anything ? " by Harvard Health as well as " The myth of expiration dates "

Maybe certain meds. last longer or certain ones degrade more quickly but it seems that most are still good far beyond the expiration date.

I do hope your baby can pull through...she [ and you ] have been through a lot. But I wonder if she is getting enough uvb and if this is possibly affecting her immune system since she's still in the huge tank and can't always get up by the lights ?
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Re: Coccidia /Albon not working

Postby kingofnobbys » Sun Aug 13, 2017 4:34 am

AHBD wrote:There are articles that I can't post here for some reason [ error code ] but they all say that medicines are good for long after the expiration date. Please just Google " Drug expiration dates, do they mean anything ? " by Harvard Health as well as " The myth of expiration dates "

Maybe certain meds. last longer or certain ones degrade more quickly but it seems that most are still good far beyond the expiration date.

I do hope your baby can pull through...she [ and you ] have been through a lot. But I wonder if she is getting enough uvb and if this is possibly affecting her immune system since she's still in the huge tank and can't always get up by the lights ?


All well and good , but it comes down to how chemically stable the active ingredient is, usually the reactivity of the active ingredient with oxygen (in the air) is the limiting factor.
Image
The phenoxy group is unstable.
CBDs: Puff ( RIP 10Dec2015 (3.2 years old (aneurism)) ,Rex (RIP 16Mar2017 at 4.6 yrs old (unexplained death)) , both adopted at 6wks old..Toothless & Peppa : (5 wks old 19dec2015).
Eastern BT Skinks : George & Mildred (born Sept 2010).
Eastern Water Skinks : Lucky (wild juvenile), rescued from a cat.Taken by a SI and far too soon, 9mths with us. RIP 21Jul2010.Wriggles - (rescued injured), small lizard thought she was a big lizard, 7-8 yrs old, died in her sleep, RIP 2Feb2016.)
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Re: Coccidia /Albon not working

Postby hill202 » Sun Aug 13, 2017 5:21 am

Well, when I'm wrong, I'm wrong and this time I'm glad I am.

Today's fecal did not look like anything like I expected. I saw the less that I have seen in...forever.
I had to really look to find any. This photo is an example of how little there is. It shows one coccidia and nothing else around. it is at 400x. My hands were not steady enough this morning, to get a pic of 1000x.

Remember yesterday, you could see more of it.

[Click image to enlarge]
Last edited by hill202 on Sun Aug 13, 2017 5:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Coccidia /Albon not working

Postby hill202 » Sun Aug 13, 2017 5:25 am

Here is another example at 400x. There are less than 7 in this pic. My reference material states that the circles with the dark outlines are air bubbles. They are meaningless.

Its not a great pic, you have to be real steady and I've had 2 cups of coffee.

[Click image to enlarge]
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Re: Coccidia /Albon not working

Postby traildrifterphalanx » Sun Aug 13, 2017 5:25 am

That's great news!
Just be sure to clean and clean again so she doesn't reinfect herself. Now we just need to get her feeling better. She took her last dose, correct? She's probably feeling pretty lousy after this whole ordeal, poor little girl.
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Re: Coccidia /Albon not working

Postby hill202 » Sun Aug 13, 2017 5:29 am

In summary, I now think her behavior yesterday was from the med. Again, that's the less that I have seen yet.

I really appreciate you guys following along. These posts help me to think things through.

This thread really does have it's ups and downs though.

Yes last dose yesterday, in a week she is due 1 more dose. You are right, time to clean.

Thanks
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Re: Coccidia /Albon not working

Postby AHBD » Sun Aug 13, 2017 5:32 am

Yes, really good to hear ! Expiration date doesn't seem to be a factor. Still consider putting her in a smaller tank set up.
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Re: Coccidia /Albon not working

Postby kingofnobbys » Sun Aug 13, 2017 5:40 am

AHBD wrote:Yes, really good to hear ! Expiration date doesn't seem to be a factor. Still consider putting her in a smaller tank set up.


Yep .... maybe the vendor this bottle was bought from buys in bulk bottles , and rebottles it into smaller bottles to resell , and simply photocopied a use sheet (which had the date on) to go with the med each time , and has never updated the sheet they send out. I hope.

Should be packed date as well as use by date on each ORIGINAL (from manufacturer) bottle if no this is what the vendor has been doing.
CBDs: Puff ( RIP 10Dec2015 (3.2 years old (aneurism)) ,Rex (RIP 16Mar2017 at 4.6 yrs old (unexplained death)) , both adopted at 6wks old..Toothless & Peppa : (5 wks old 19dec2015).
Eastern BT Skinks : George & Mildred (born Sept 2010).
Eastern Water Skinks : Lucky (wild juvenile), rescued from a cat.Taken by a SI and far too soon, 9mths with us. RIP 21Jul2010.Wriggles - (rescued injured), small lizard thought she was a big lizard, 7-8 yrs old, died in her sleep, RIP 2Feb2016.)
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Re: Coccidia /Albon not working

Postby hill202 » Sun Aug 13, 2017 7:57 am

That shelf is her favorite spot. I had other ways for her to get up and down from but I have them out for cleaning purposes. She has climbed up and down a lot. I have the shelf 10 inches from the light. For the past week or so she has not been able to get up to it. I got rid of that bark plank mess and made a ramp for her. I put a temp box for her to jump on, if she were to try and jump down. The paper towel will help her "stick" the landing.

[Click image to enlarge]
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Re: Coccidia /Albon not working

Postby AHBD » Sun Aug 13, 2017 8:34 am

That looks good. How is she doing today in general ? Eating anything ?
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Re: Coccidia /Albon not working

Postby kingofnobbys » Sun Aug 13, 2017 8:46 am

hill202 wrote:That shelf is her favorite spot. I had other ways for her to get up and down from but I have them out for cleaning purposes. She has climbed up and down a lot. I have the shelf 10 inches from the light. For the past week or so she has not been able to get up to it. I got rid of that bark plank mess and made a ramp for her. I put a temp box for her to jump on, if she were to try and jump down. The paper towel will help her "stick" the landing.

[Click image to enlarge]


Make sure the paper ontop the box is taped down else if she jumps onto with enough horizontal momentum the paper will slid off the top of the box like she's landed on very slick ice.
CBDs: Puff ( RIP 10Dec2015 (3.2 years old (aneurism)) ,Rex (RIP 16Mar2017 at 4.6 yrs old (unexplained death)) , both adopted at 6wks old..Toothless & Peppa : (5 wks old 19dec2015).
Eastern BT Skinks : George & Mildred (born Sept 2010).
Eastern Water Skinks : Lucky (wild juvenile), rescued from a cat.Taken by a SI and far too soon, 9mths with us. RIP 21Jul2010.Wriggles - (rescued injured), small lizard thought she was a big lizard, 7-8 yrs old, died in her sleep, RIP 2Feb2016.)
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Re: Coccidia /Albon not working

Postby hill202 » Sun Aug 13, 2017 11:15 am

AHBD wrote:That looks good. How is she doing today in general ? Eating anything ?


4 wax worms, one had an injection of her calcium med in it. That's it. :(

She is not energetic but she is not hanging her head like she was. She has had more probiotic today.
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