Help 3 month old not eating and falling

I'm glad you got the T5 UVB tube finally mounted within the correct distance, 12" is perfect. The reason i was concerned about him having vision issues is if I recall you had the coil UVB over him and it was very close, then I believe you had another light very close, and that is usually what can cause at least temporary vision issues. But if the reptile vet checked that out then that's good news.

As Tracie already mentioned, the liquid calcium is a must when you're first dealing with MBD, as it's absorbed by the body much more readily. As far as the multivitamin goes, you may want to check out Repashy Calcium Plus, I love this multivitamin supplement and have been using it forever, the reason being is that it contains no synthetic vitamins or minerals at all, they are all sourced from natural sources and this not only prevents any vitamin toxicity as often happens with synthetic vitamin supplements, but the vitamins and minerals from all-natural sources are also much more readily absorbed by their bodies.

I'd completely agree with you that Bearded Dragons are certainly not the "Beginner's Reptiles" that they are often labeled as being. I happened to look at my local Petco the other day at the babies they had, killing time while I was waiting for someone to count out some crickets for a friend of mine, and I noticed on the little "information cards" they have under each tank, which describe the average life-span, whether or not they need "specialty lighting", etc. that the information card underneath the baby Bearded Dragons said that their "Level of Care" was labeled as "Easy, Beginner"...Then I looked at other cards under different lizards, snakes, and a Herman's Tortoise, and they have levels that also say "Moderate", "Expert", and "Advanced Care", so according to Petco Bearded Dragons don't even require "Moderate" care or experience. I suppose that's true if you care for them like Petco now does; since they made Zilla their new "House-Brand" last year they have been keeping them on bright white Calcium Sand (little tiny babies no longer than 3-4" on over an inch of Calcium Sand), and they now have an 18" Zilla Desert 50 T8 UVB tube mounted about 4" above the mesh lid to the tank, up in a rack system, and the tube is in that damn Zilla Slimline Fixture with the clear, plastic cover over the tube that is blocking 100% of the UVB light emitted. Not that it would matter if the clear, plastic cover was on the fixture or not, they've got the tube mounted 4" above the mesh lid, so there's no way an unobstructed T8 Zilla tube would deliver any UVB light at all to the poor dragons inside a regular 20 gallon tank that has to be 18" high, then through a mesh lid, then 4" above that...I said something to the aquarium guy that I know there who actually really knows his aquariums, he has literally forgotten more about fish aquariums than I've ever known. So I thought the UVB light issue would make sense to him, which it did, and he was already fully aware of the issue, but said he can't change it, no one in the store can change it now, not even the managers, because of the deal they have with Zilla now. What a bunch of crap.

Anyway, the point I was making is that Bearded Dragons are universally excepted as "The perfect beginner reptile pet for kids and people who have never owned a reptile before", and I have no idea why. In my opinion NO desert reptile is going to be a good "beginner" reptile, or a good first reptile for a young child to take care of, simply due to their very specific and lighting requirements. Why not suggest a Leopard Gecko as a first reptile for a child? They are extremely easy and straight-forward to take care of, they can eat pretty much any live feeder insects, they only require minimal UVB/UVA lighting, and their temperature requirements are no big deal. Very, very simple. I think the reason that Beardies are represented as a great "beginner" or "child's" reptile is because they are very docile, interactive, and friendly, even loving. That's why. Most Geckos don't like to be handled, neither do Anoles (another extremely easy lizard for a child to care for), and the monitors and such are too big. I guess that's why. The problem is that if their husbandry isn't completely correct then they aren't going to be friendly or interactive anyway because they're sick, and the owners spend all of their time and money trying to get them well again. It's very unfair of pet shops to represent Dragons the way that they do, unfair to both the Dragons and to the poor people who buy them.

The good news is that your little guy is young enough that he'll be able to recover, it's just going to take a while. Once you get over this hump it does in-fact get much, much easier, the only thing you need to remember is to replace the T5 UVB every 12 months, that's about it as far as any husbandry changes. So please try to keep that in mind, that there is light at the end of the tunnel, and once you get her through this initial set-back she's going to be a very loving, fun pet that will become extremely easy to care for.

I wish that pet shops and breeders, when dealing with customers who are buying their first Dragon, would suggest to them that they might want to buy or adopt an older juvenile or a very young adult dragon that is already through the first few "baby" months of life. As long as the juvenile or sub-adult/adult that you're getting has been well taken care of and has grown to full potential, and is eating well, it's much easier to start out that way sometimes...

I told myself to be patient and not to post again until Friday, but I think he is losing weight. Have a scale now. He was 13 grams on it mid last week. Just weighed him again at 12 grams. It could be within the error in the sensitivity of the scale though. So please look at today's pic and tell me he does not look even skinnier. I think I will call the vet again. I am also attaching a puck of his poop. It looms pretty much the same going in as coming out. I feed him twice a day and he poops twice a day. He has been on the critical care for 12 days now. All he does is lay there. There is almost no energy at all. Doesn't even open his eyes when we visit him or offer him a bug. I am worried that he is just suffering. So I hope you can tell me I am just being too anxious and to be patient.

He actually look nice a big and bright, definitely not skinny, nor skinnier than the past photos. 1 gram in a week of weight lost means absolutely nothing, that's a poop, and definitely not anything to worry about.

And the poop going in and coming out looking the same is because he's eating nothing but the Critical Care, that's a very common observation for people to make while they are feeding them the Critical Care.

He actually looks really good. He's got nice, bright colors, he's got a belly on him, and he looks like the correct size for his age. And his poop is completely normal, and will continue to look like that for as long as he's eating only the Critical Care. You may want to ask the vet about doing 3 feedings a day with the Critical Care, or just go ahead and add a feeding per day, not because he's at all skinny or underweight, because he's not and he looks good, but because he may no be getting enough nutrition daily, and that could easily be why he's got no energy. The MBD will definitely cause some lethargy, but if they aren't getting enough nutrition, or "fuel" every day, then that is going to have a huge impact on their energy levels. I know a lot of people who have had very small babies that were eating Critical Care or Emerald because they were ill and not eating for one reason or another, and a lot of them do 3 feedings of it per day. I wouldn't hesitate to at least try adding another feeding per day for a week and see if that helps him. I'd say that if he willingly takes another feeding each day then that means that he needs it.

Also, are you giving him water several times throughout the day on his snout for him to lick off? If not, then I also suggest doing this in addition to adding a third Critical Care feeding each day, as he needs all the hydration he can get since he's not eating any live insects or fresh greens. So if you're not already doing this, then i'd also start dripping water, or even unflavored Pedialyte on his snout several times a day, and give him as much of the hydration as he is willing to lick off each time you offer it. ****Don't be surprised if after you start offering him fluids several times a day that his bowel movements suddenly become runny or a bunch of clear fluid comes out with the bowel movements, that's completely normal and it means that he's very well-hydrated, which is a good thing.

He's not getting any kind of medication right now is he? I mean prescription meds from the vet, not the calcium or multivitamins (I think you're adding a pinch of calcium/multivitamin to the Critical Care, aren't you?)? I'm just double-checking on this...

You may want to also think about adding a Probiotic to his Critical Care as well, as it can settle their stomachs and basically "normalize" their GI Tracts again...I usually suggest Acidophilus, but honestly whenever they have no appetites and are in this kind of situation, I suggest using a Digestive Enzyme/Probiotic supplement. I have used this in a similar situation with one of my rescue boys when I first brought him home, he had severe MBD from never having any UVB light for the first 8 months of his life, and he had a horrible mealworm shell impaction that took almost 2 weeks to completely pass. Once we got the impaction completely passed and the sense of urgency was over, then I had to get him eating on his own (I was doing the same thing you are, syringe-feeding him my own Critical Care mix 3 times a day). So I decided to add the same dietary supplement that I had used for years when I bred and hand-raised parrots and the 2 week old babies had slow-crop or crop-stasis and refused to eat. It's a tablet that contains Acidophilus along with several different, naturally occurring Digestive Enzymes, I crushed a table up in a mortar/pestle and added a good-size pinch of it to his Critical Care. Not only did his bowel movements normalize, but he slowly started eating BSFL on his own daily. If you're interested, PM me and I can give you all of the information, it's great stuff and you can buy it at any Walmart believe it or not. I'm a huge believer in natural supplements and Probiotics for any type of GI Tract/Appetite issues, and the Digestive Enzymes have been a life-saver for both my dragons and my baby birds several times. The nice thing is that it's cheap and even if it doesn't help him, it definitely will not hurt him at all.

Hello,

Sorry he isn't opening his eyes more right now. He may not be feeling 100% yet & is probably
tired, too from the lack of UVB initially. He is in a prime growing period which that alone
zaps them system.
I would definitely recommend feeing several times per day, if you can. Since he isn't feeling
well, try to boost the nighttime temperatures to around 80 in his tank to help with his immune
system right now.
He looks good overall, not dark, etc. The stool looks pretty normal. I know it's hard being
patient when you know they don't feel well. Are you holding him daily?
Let us know how he is doing.

Tracie

My daughter is holding him a couple of times a day. The vet recommended it. He just sits on her chest. He shows less interest every day, but it doesn't seem to stress him. He is getting the liquid calcium daily now. The multivitamin 4 2xs a week. The probiotic Ellen recommended 2xs a day. I also upped his feedings of carnivore care to 3 xs a day. He is slowly able to eat more at a time. He usually is done at about 0.8 ml or less (begins fighting a good bit). He also is getting a daily bath partly because he sits in his poop. Water pedialyte mix (2 parts water to 1 part pedialyte) dripped several times a day.

NEW QUESTION: As far as I know he never was without calcium or uvb light. My initial problem seems to have been him climbing up a wall to sit too close to my 22 inch ho t5 uvb, which was placed on him Jan 11th. It was moved above the mesh top as it was too close the 29th. It is now the optimum 12 inches away under the mesh. Now assuming he recovers and begins climbing again like he did initially, is there a better 22 inch uvb for my setup? The terrerium is only 18 inches tall.

Hello,

I am sorry he isn't doing a lot better yet.
I think the light placement for the T5 where you have it now is just fine & you can leave it
just as it is. He will be fine with this distance. Even if he comes within 10 inches of it, that
would be great.
So, he is taking in about 3 mls of carnivore care daily? At least he is taking in some nutrition.
I hope he continues that trend. It does take some time for them to recovery. I hope he feels
better soon. Keep us posted on him.

Tracie

So he's taking the 3rd daily feeding of Critical Care? That's a good sign, that means he's hungry for it, so as long as he takes it then keep giving it to him, along with the extra hydration several times a day. I think it's much better to do several smaller feedings per day then to try to do 1 or 2 large feedings, that usually is counterproductive.

As far as the 22" Reptisun 10.0 T5HO UVB tube, you've got it mounted correctly now, as Tracie said he can get within 10" of that UVB tube safely, so no issue there. As far as there being a "Better" UVB tube available, the only suggestion I could make would be going to a 24" or longer Arcadia 12% T5 UVB tube. The 24" length would fit into the fixture you have now; the main difference between the Arcadia T5 tube and the Reptisun T5 tube is that the Arcadia is a 12% UVB tube, while the Reptisun is a 10% UVB tube, so the Arcadia emit stronger UVB light...And now that I think about it, I'm not sure that the 12% Arcadia would fit into the fixture you have now, because the 12% Arcadia may be a higher wattage than the 22" Reptisun 10.0 T5HO, which is 24 watts, so you have to be sure that the fixture is rated for the wattage of the 24" Arcadia 12% T5 UVB tube, which I'm not sure whether or not is a 24 watt tube or a 26 watt tube...That would be the only "Upgrade" in UVB tube that I can think of; Arcadia also makes a 14% UVB tube, but that's only necessary if you have a much larger enclosure, as it's an extremely strong UVB tube and is meant to be used in enclosures where the tube must be further away from the dragon.

So you started giving him the Digestive Enzyme/Probiotic? That's good, keeping my fingers crossed that the combination of more nutrition, more hydration, and the Probiotic/Digestive Enzymes starts to get his energy levels up. Once that happens, he should also start to eat a bit on his own as well.

Quick question for you that I forgot to ever ask, exactly what Coil UVB bulb was he under? Do you remember the brand/wattage? And how long was he under it?

He was only under a coil uvb for 8 days. Less probably. And only while i waited for the t5 ho to come in. It was the national geographic sct26 uvb10.0 26w.

He was under a house-hold compact fluorescent coil for 17 days. 26w I believe.

Unfortunately I think he has passed away.

Hello,

Oh no, you think he has passed on, have you seen any signs of breathing at all? I am sorry,
this is never an easy thing to have to go through. Let us know about your baby.

Tracie

Yes, he had died. At least now he is at peace.