BSFL question

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BSFL question

Postby kayleesi » Fri Sep 13, 2019 12:55 pm

So I'm having a lot of trouble keeping Daenerys fed. She came back from the vet with scary high parasite numbers, so I've currently got her on a medication regiment to get her back in order.

That said, I'm searching for a feeder solution. The breeder reared her on small superworms and she loves them, but I am now finding out they are prone to pinworms (which she has) and she is also starting to have trouble digesting them. I gave dubia roaches a shot and she likes them too, but keeping/finding them small enough for her has been a challenge, and I really don't have the space (or desire) to start a colony. Crickets are out of the question. Taking a trip to go pick up feeders every day also isn't an option, so now I'm looking at phoenix worms. Her bloodwork was showing that she was not getting enough calcium despite the fact that I have been dusting her feeders, but the vet believes that is probably the fault of the parasites...so phoenix worms would work very well, if I can get them to work with my lifestyle.

I can't find any information on how long/under what conditions they morph into flies. I really want to have this on lockdown before I give this a shot -- we already have a fly problem in the house because of its humidity and age and I don't want to add to it. Can anyone help me out?
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Re: BSFL question

Postby Claudiusx » Fri Sep 13, 2019 1:34 pm

Hi there,

Parasite meds do typically upset the stomach and cause decreased appetite. What was prescribed and at what dose?

If you keep the Bsfl in a wine cooler or a mini fridge that you set to the correct temp, they can be stored for around 2 months I believe. At least a few weeks though. So you could buy in bulk. Or you could simply just make weekly orders. They wont morph into flies that quickly unless they are already close.

And she could be getting enough calcium in her diet, but if she isnt able to absorb it that's another thing.
Are you using plain calcium or calcium + d3?
And what are you using for UVB?

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Re: BSFL question

Postby MrSpectrum » Fri Sep 13, 2019 5:21 pm

Isn't there a variety of (either meal or supers) that don't morph into beetles, or am I having a senior moment? :roll:
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Re: BSFL question

Postby kayleesi » Fri Sep 13, 2019 7:19 pm

Sorry, I should have given more info in the top. Dany is about 4 months old -- her appetite isn't the issue. She is still ravenous, she is just not digesting what I am giving her well.

She has been prescribed Metronidazole (.06 ml 7 days on, 7 off, 21 doses total), Ponazuril (.09 ml, 4 doses very spread out), and Fenbendazole (.02 ml 5 days on, 6 days off). The vet wants another fecal brought in 3 days from today to check how things are going.

Her current powder is calcium + d3, and she has a reptisun 5.0 for UVB.

Thank you for answering my question! I'm totally fine doing a weekly order to avoid it -- I'm not even sure if she'll take to them, but she seems to eat anything that wriggles.

claudiusx wrote:Hi there,

Parasite meds do typically upset the stomach and cause decreased appetite. What was prescribed and at what dose?

If you keep the Bsfl in a wine cooler or a mini fridge that you set to the correct temp, they can be stored for around 2 months I believe. At least a few weeks though. So you could buy in bulk. Or you could simply just make weekly orders. They wont morph into flies that quickly unless they are already close.

And she could be getting enough calcium in her diet, but if she isnt able to absorb it that's another thing.
Are you using plain calcium or calcium + d3?
And what are you using for UVB?

-Brandon
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Re: BSFL question

Postby kayleesi » Fri Sep 13, 2019 7:23 pm

MrSpectrum wrote:Isn't there a variety of (either meal or supers) that don't morph into beetles, or am I having a senior moment? :roll:


I know supers CAN morph into beetles, but mine never do. I feed them long before they get the chance.
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Re: BSFL question

Postby MrSpectrum » Fri Sep 13, 2019 7:28 pm

Is the Reptisun UVB a tube or a bulb? If a tube, is it T8 or T5?
Depending on size of enclosure and distance(s) from basking spot(s) to bulb, it should probably be upped to a 10.0 (tube preferred).
There are charts on Reptisun's site to help choose the right bulb.
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Re: BSFL question

Postby kayleesi » Fri Sep 13, 2019 8:12 pm

It's a t8 tube, but she has a low tank, so the basking spot gets pretty high up.
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Re: BSFL question

Postby kingofnobbys » Fri Sep 13, 2019 9:57 pm

kayleesi wrote:So I'm having a lot of trouble keeping Daenerys fed. She came back from the vet with scary high parasite numbers, so I've currently got her on a medication regiment to get her back in order.

That said, I'm searching for a feeder solution. The breeder reared her on small superworms and she loves them, but I am now finding out they are prone to pinworms (which she has) and she is also starting to have trouble digesting them. I gave dubia roaches a shot and she likes them too, but keeping/finding them small enough for her has been a challenge, and I really don't have the space (or desire) to start a colony. Crickets are out of the question. Taking a trip to go pick up feeders every day also isn't an option, so now I'm looking at phoenix worms. Her bloodwork was showing that she was not getting enough calcium despite the fact that I have been dusting her feeders, but the vet believes that is probably the fault of the parasites...so phoenix worms would work very well, if I can get them to work with my lifestyle.

Regards BSLF :
refer to this Image
Ask for new 2nd instars , the 2nd and 3rd instars are mobile, the 2nd instar are very wrigglely, a smooth porcelain worm escape proof dish is a must , and make sure you dry the dish and the worms before putting them in as they are very good climbers and will escape the dish if the dish or the worms are the slightest bit damp.
The pupa and flies are edible and highly nutritious too. The flies are slow moving and don't bite.
I simply place my BSFL in a 600ml plastic food tub ( that was used to ship mealworms or superworms to me ), make sure it's clean , add a sheet of kitchen paper towel , and they sit on the coffee table and are fine for up to 3 weeks , I buy my BSFL in batches of 100g 2nd instar .

Careful chilling them as they will be killed if chilled too much.

Another option is blowfly maggots .
House fly and blowfly maggots are an excellent feeder ( also rich in calcium )
Image
Again, worm escape dish is needed , and the pupa and flies are highly nutritious.

A very good option is silkworms (also rich in calcium) , there are very easy to manage, simply place in a dish on a bit of mulberry leaf or with a slice of chow and they will stay there ( but not for long as most dragons find silkworms irresistible.



I can't find any information on how long/under what conditions they morph into flies. I really want to have this on lockdown before I give this a shot -- we already have a fly problem in the house because of its humidity and age and I don't want to add to it. Can anyone help me out?
CBDs: Cleopatra & Caesar born 28Jan19.
Puff (RIP 10Dec15),Rex (RIP 16Mar17),Toothless (RIP 26Nov17).Peppa (RIP 22Mar19).
EBTSs : George & Mildred (born july 2010).
EWSs : Gutzy (F) 27Sep19, Fluffy (F) rescued injured by lawnwacker 14Nov17, Wriggles (F) - injured rescue, over 8 yrs old, RIP 2Feb16 old age. Lucky juvenile (M) - cat attack rescue (lost r-eye, broken r-lower jaw), fatal SI RIP 21Jul2010.
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Re: BSFL question

Postby kingofnobbys » Fri Sep 13, 2019 10:06 pm

kayleesi wrote:It's a t8 tube, but she has a low tank, so the basking spot gets pretty high up.


Above or under a mesh lid ?
In a reflector hood ?

How close to the t8 tube is the basking spot ?

Choosing an adequate UV source you are aiming for about 160 to 200 microW UVB/sq.cm at the basking spot , or if you want about UV-I = 6
Curves for UVB flux and UV-I for Arcadia T5 tubes :
Image
curves for UVB flux for T5 and T8 and compact UVB sources
Image

A fine mesh lid will block 45% of the UVA & UVB , essentially cancelling the benefit of good quality parabolic metal reflector (hood).
Last edited by kingofnobbys on Fri Sep 13, 2019 10:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
CBDs: Cleopatra & Caesar born 28Jan19.
Puff (RIP 10Dec15),Rex (RIP 16Mar17),Toothless (RIP 26Nov17).Peppa (RIP 22Mar19).
EBTSs : George & Mildred (born july 2010).
EWSs : Gutzy (F) 27Sep19, Fluffy (F) rescued injured by lawnwacker 14Nov17, Wriggles (F) - injured rescue, over 8 yrs old, RIP 2Feb16 old age. Lucky juvenile (M) - cat attack rescue (lost r-eye, broken r-lower jaw), fatal SI RIP 21Jul2010.
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Re: BSFL question

Postby kayleesi » Fri Sep 13, 2019 10:09 pm

kingofnobbys wrote:
kayleesi wrote:It's a t8 tube, but she has a low tank, so the basking spot gets pretty high up.


Above or under a mesh lid ?
In a reflector hood ?

How close to the t8 tube is the basking spot ?


Above a mesh lid, in a reflector hood, about seven inches away. Thank you for the chart — that is very helpful.
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Re: BSFL question

Postby kingofnobbys » Fri Sep 13, 2019 10:18 pm

kayleesi wrote:
kingofnobbys wrote:
kayleesi wrote:It's a t8 tube, but she has a low tank, so the basking spot gets pretty high up.


Above or under a mesh lid ?
In a reflector hood ?

How close to the t8 tube is the basking spot ?


Above a mesh lid, in a reflector hood, about seven inches away. Thank you for the chart — that is very helpful.


Too far away even if it's a 10% (or 12%) tube.
The UVB flux will likely be under 70 microW UVB/sq.cm in your situation (which is not adequate for photosynthesis of VitD3 and metabolisation of dietary calcium ( the risk is MBD unless you up the UVB level ) , even course wire mesh will block 30% of the UVA & UVB .
CBDs: Cleopatra & Caesar born 28Jan19.
Puff (RIP 10Dec15),Rex (RIP 16Mar17),Toothless (RIP 26Nov17).Peppa (RIP 22Mar19).
EBTSs : George & Mildred (born july 2010).
EWSs : Gutzy (F) 27Sep19, Fluffy (F) rescued injured by lawnwacker 14Nov17, Wriggles (F) - injured rescue, over 8 yrs old, RIP 2Feb16 old age. Lucky juvenile (M) - cat attack rescue (lost r-eye, broken r-lower jaw), fatal SI RIP 21Jul2010.
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Re: BSFL question

Postby MrSpectrum » Sat Sep 14, 2019 5:39 am

kayleesi wrote:It's a t8 tube, but she has a low tank, so the basking spot gets pretty high up.

OK, like I said, "Depending on..." Switching to a 10.0 might still be in order, and basking spots don't necessarily have to be the highest spot in the enclosure--they can be lowered/raised if/when appropriate. :wink:
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