Spike 2 dying... Same symptoms as #1

[XtinaBeardieMom]

Before you get another dragon, I just wanted to mention the possibility of Adenovirus being the cause of death with your last two babies. Were they tested for Adenovirus or did the vet look for it during the necropsy? It would make sense if you put your 2nd dragon in the same tank the 1st dragon had been living in. Baby beardies are especially at risk of succumbing to Adenovirus. Before you get another beardie, you need to thoroughly sanitize every inch of the enclosure and any other furniture, rocks, blankies, feeding dishes, etc. that came into contact with your last two beardies. You can use a 10% ammonia solution and then go over it all with a steamer. Feeding dishes and rocks need to be boiled for 30mins. Branches and any other wood needs to go in the oven at 200 degrees for at least an hour. Hammocks, blankies, or anything else like that can be washed in the laundry with hot water.

I'm no expert on Adenovirus, but it would explain the mysterious back-to-back deaths. I would highly recommend you PM Tracie (Drache613) to tell her about your situation and see if she thinks Adenovirus may be the case. She has pioneered a lot of research on the virus & is a well respected beardie expert in general. She can tell you about any other possibilities as to what may have caused this as well as other pre-cautions you may need to take to ensure the good health of your next beardie. Here's another thread about Adenovirus that sounds similar to yours...

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=169697

 

[ShannyBeard]

We haven't been measuring humidity since there is nothing we can do to lower it.
The temp/humidity I stated way above was the outdoor conditions stated by the weather channel.

Breeder would prefer that we measure temp with a wheel type thermometer instead of a digital. But my digital is a calibrated industrial thermometer, so I'm not sure how much better you can get.

There are always things you can do to lower humidity. If you suspect URI in this baby, then you need to see if you have high humidity, as this would cause a URI. If you do have high humidity you need to get it under control before you get another beardie. That's just what you've got to do when you have desert lizards. You can't make a desert in your whole house, but you do need to get as close as you can in their vivs.

The breeder recommended a dial thermometer?? Is that what you mean by a wheel? I can't even imagine a breeder would recommend that you use substandard, inaccurate instruments, especially with one of their own babies. That is illogical. :?: :!: I'm sorry. :silent:

 

[mischa]

What did you use to sanitize your aquarium? Did you sanitize any cage furniture also? How long did you let air dry?

 

[earthmarktwo]

How were you hydrating him, also? You mentioned bathing him when his tank was being cleaned. What other hydration was he being given?

 

[XtinaBeardieMom]

Before you get another dragon, I just wanted to mention the possibility of Adenovirus being the cause of death with your last two babies. Were they tested for Adenovirus or did the vet look for it during the necropsy? It would make sense if you put your 2nd dragon in the same tank the 1st dragon had been living in. Baby beardies are especially at risk of succumbing to Adenovirus. Before you get another beardie, you need to thoroughly sanitize every inch of the enclosure and any other furniture, rocks, blankies, feeding dishes, etc. that came into contact with your last two beardies. You can use a 10% ammonia solution and then go over it all with a steamer. Feeding dishes and rocks need to be boiled for 30mins. Branches and any other wood needs to go in the oven at 200 degrees for at least an hour. Hammocks, blankies, or anything else like that can be washed in the laundry with hot water.

I'm no expert on Adenovirus, but it would explain the mysterious back-to-back deaths. I would highly recommend you PM Tracie (Drache613) to tell her about your situation and see if she thinks Adenovirus may be the case. She has pioneered a lot of research on the virus & is a well respected beardie expert in general. She can tell you about any other possibilities as to what may have caused this as well as other pre-cautions you may need to take to ensure the good health of your next beardie. Here's another thread about Adenovirus that sounds similar to yours...

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=169697

Sorry to quote myself like a nerd, but I just realized you said you're getting another dragon today. I'm very concerned that the possibility of Adenovirus hasn't been addressed yet. Please look into it before you bring home another dragon, and take all of the precautions necessary to protect your new baby. Good luck with everything - I hope your new dragon brings you & your son all the joy in the world!

 

[kjpetriel]

Hydration: while there was always a bowl of fresh water I never saw them use it in any manner (swim or drink)
Washed dandilion greens, gut loaded crickets, phoenix worms, a misting in the morning, and the weekly bath.

We used to use a tsp of clorox in a gal of water, but switched to amonia based product recommended by breeder. We waited an hour or so before putting him back. There was no detectable smell left.

Everything in the viv is taken out and sprayed lightly. The basking rock and the log were wash first the spayed. The half log hiding space was spot cleanned and lightly sprayed. Bacause ofnthe bark.
I don't know anything about that virus that was mentioned. All I know is that the cleanning solution is used by vets to sanitize between reptile patients.
I will look it up this evening.

Wife just called.. "spike#3" is on the way home. Vet and breeder on speed dial... This is THE last attempt with a baby.

 

[mischa]

I'm thinking your sanitizing solution(don't know exactly what your using?) may be the culprit here. Maybe your basking rock is porous and absorbed some of it and when it was placed under the basking light it evaporated causing poisonous fumes? It's a possibility, especially with how often you sanitize. Is the log you use real wood? If so it will defiantly absorb whatever your using.

 

[ShannyBeard]

I'm thinking your sanitizing solution(don't know exactly what your using?) may be the culprit here. Maybe your basking rock is porous and absorbed some of it and when it was placed under the basking light it evaporated causing poisonous fumes? It's a possibility, especially with how often you sanitize. Is the log you use real wood? If so it will defiantly absorb whatever your using.

For this reason, we do not use any natural material or porous items in the vivs. They are impossible to safely clean, just my opinion. For the log style hides, we get the ones for aquatic turtles. They are not real wood but they look like real wood, and they clean super easily.

Interesting thought on the fumes. I do believe there is something with the enclosure that isn't right, too. It does make the most sense considering two animals have died.

Wish we knew for sure.

 

[mischa]

You can bake the wood in the oven to kill off any bacteria.

 

[Irwinshealth]

Oh my, I hate to sound like I'm lecturing but I agree it may be soon. I'm very happy you are getting Spike 3 But highly concerned as to what may be the culprit also. I too would bake any wood from bacteria. With loosing two it almost has to be something not quite right in the setup. If you use the bleach solution it should work. Do you have a steamer at all? If you have to keep the wood out for now it would be alright for a bit.

On a more positive note, Very happy to hear you aren't giving up. When it all works out you won't be sorry. Beardies are wonderful pets for almost all ages. Looking forward to pictures of your little one

 

[kjpetriel]

Spike 1 was in our home for 3 months.
After reading posts that 10 gallons was too small I built a viv 2'x2'x4'.
He was in it for nearly 6 weeks.

Spike 2 - I made a divider which cut the viv into 2'x2'x 18". Larger than a 10 gallon.
Both died long after cleanning day. Since they died so fast, I doubt it was the sanitation, unless spot cleanning needed to be done daily.

Spike 3 is in a new 20 gallon long tank. Basking and uvb suspended 1" above the wire mesh top and on a timer from 6 am to 7:30pm. Lights are at one extreme end of the tank.

New reptile carpet being used. E erything has been sanatized, and the wood baked.
One more. Change... I have been chopping the greens. Breeder says wash them and put them in whole. The beardy will take a bite.


Still haven't had time to lookup the virus mentioned above.
Since we live out in the wood skeeters are always a big problem.
Not many fire flies.


Spike 3 is about 8 inches, so he is a little older than 2.

 

[mischa]

I wasn't saying your problem is sanitation. If anything I felt sanitizing that often was a bit excessive, aside from spot cleaning, which should be done daily. I was saying whatever chemical your using may be absorbing into your reptile furniture and then being released into the air, thus affecting your beardie.

 

[munchkins9802]

I agree with some of them that the sanitizing itself isn't the issue but the sanitation ingredient (esp ammonia--ammonia fumes are lethal and poisonous even to humans if not used with proper ratios--i would do bleach but not ammonia. And yes ammonia in an enclosed space could cause the sudden death.

In addition, I would NOT use a dial/circle thermometer--the digital with probes are the best. glad to see you using repti carpet as sand is a no no. Feed the lizard crickets NO BIGGER than the space between the eyes. Even dividing the 2 *2*18 , would make the tank 1 X1X9. Still seems awfully small. Sorry to say but a lot of people think they KNOW what is best for the dragons. They are an expense to get started as babies but are 110% worth it once everything is set right for them

what lighting do you have again?

 

[kjpetriel]

Spike 2 .. I divided his section down to a floor space of 24 inches by 18 inches.

Current lighting is a 75 watt basking light and a 75 watt uvb mini flouresent hanging 1 inch above the mesh tank top at the extreme left of the tank over his basking log.

Today the temp in the basking area was 90 and 84 on the opposite side of the tank.

S3 seem much more flighty and doesn't like to be held as much. FAST LITTLE BUGGER. He'll settle down.

 

[kjpetriel]

By the way.. The sanitizer is called WIPE OUT. And is for vivs

Thanks for all your help