Your Honest Opinion on Substrate

[Smed691]

Hello all. I'm a noob here and just started my account today. After reading through numerous forums, I have found that there are many (in my humble opinion) "know-it-alls" here that contradict each other often and seem to love telling others that they are wrong. Especially when it comes to differing opinions on substrate. I would like to know eveyone's honest opinion of their preferred substrate. In addition, have any of you here ever had a dragon die due to impaction from an "incorrect" substrate? I have yet to hear from someone who actually knowingly has. I know numerous people who have kept baby dragons on washed play sand who have never had an issue with impaction. Two of those people that I know, in fact, are breeders who care for their dragons greatly and have had numerous baby's throughout their span as caretakers. Even The Bearded Dragon Manual produced by The Experts at Advanced Vivarium Systems states in their book that they keep their babies on play sand and have never had an issue. So what do you think? Be honest here. I'm not trying to incite hostility. I would just like to know what everyone thinks and to know if anyone has actually had a dragon die due to sand impaction. Please don't start telling others that they are wrong if their opinion differs from yours. I would especially like to hear from anyone on here who is an actual exotic animal DVM.

 

[Livey]

Im no expert but i changed my baby beardie from sand to tile after been told it can cause impact...
But i dont really no tbh, i have seen many dragons with sand in there vivs.
I moved mine becuase i was scared after reading the posts ^_^
I read a book in a pet shop saying it is bad...but the beardies in the shop were on sand sooo.,..
I dont really no tbh
I moved mine for peace of mind, knowing it was safe .
But as i said im not expert i have only had my beardie for 6 weeks haha
But id wait to here from someone who knowes what they on about

Hope i helped,

in some way!

 

[Smed691]

Im no expert but i changed my baby beardie from sand to tile after been told it can cause impact...
But i dont really no tbh, i have seen many dragons with sand in there vivs.
I moved mine becuase i was scared after reading the posts ^_^
I read a book in a pet shop saying it is bad...but the beardies in the shop were on sand sooo.,..
I dont really no tbh
I moved mine for peace of mind, knowing it was safe .
But as i said im not expert i have only had my beardie for 6 weeks haha
But id wait to here from someone who knowes what they on about

Hope i helped,

in some way!

You definietely have. I want honest opinions and you provided. Hopefully, we can hear some other opinions here too...

 

[sara24354]

Somewhere on the board here there is a thread with a copy of an x ray from a beardie that was impacted and there is also information on calcium sand and the health problems it can cause humans(let alone beardies) I am looking for this information and when I find it I will let you know where it is found.

 

[Seacow]

I know what you mean about differences in opinion...each to their own I guess!
We take in rescue/unwanted pet beardies (and other reptiles). With the beardies, personally, If they're under a year old, it's paper towels for substrate. When they're older, if I know they're free of health issues, I use bark chips. I found the play sand terribly messy,but other than that I had no problems with it. They are fed outside their enclosures to minimise risk of ingestion. However, it's paper towel all the way if I'm unsure of the beardie in question. Again, I only speak from personal experience. On the subject of calci sand, I've spoken to several vets on the subject and the general opinion is that if everyone who had a reptile that died got a necropsy on the body, calci-sand would be banned by now. Problem is, people walk into the petshop, think "ohhh...cool pet, I want one", buy the petshop's "beardie set-up" complete with calci sand, three weeks later beardie dies, owner thinks-"Humph...think I'll get a dog", Sooo, vererinary opinion is calci sand is bad, but there isn't enough conclusive evidence to be rid of it altogether.
My two cents.... Not much but I hope this helps!

 

[vickson420]

Topic moved to Enclosures

 

[Potts]

Ive always been told tiles because they are easy to clean and safe but apparently theres an argument agains't them, haven't heard it yet though.

 

[freitas]

Well I have two 3 1/2 old beardies, male and female. Childrens Playsand is what i use. I would stay away from cali-sand. The problem with Cali-sand is that it turns rock hard when it gets wet. The other problem with cali-sand and young beardies is that the beardies when young, their intestines havnt stretched out yet and so they will have many turns and bends where cali-sand and many other loose substrate will collect over time. As an adult they no longer have this issue, Their intestines have stretched out. A rule I try to follow is that paper towel or tile for the first year and then Playsand after. I find the tile to look so much like a hospital and cold. Just my thoughts.

 

[pikemartin]

I am a novice owner with bearded dragon but I asked the guy from bloodbank dragons this question. He said he's bred beardies for over 8 years now. They've always been housed on sand and he's never had an issue. Just a FYI

 

[radekkacz07]

I asked the owner of one local exotic pet store and they keep beardies on sand for years both on sand and walnut. Im no pro, but just passing on what I heard from more experienced owners/breeders.

 

[sara24354]

With some help I found the information I was looking for:
http://www.petzoo.co.uk/extra_info_pages.php?pages_id=29,
http://www.thereptileking.com/knowledgemanager/questions.php?questionid=427
http://www.inchem.org/documents/icsc/icsc/eics0406.htm
I hope this information helps a little.After I read the information the first time and saw the xrays I decided that it wasn't worth the risk to me to use sand at all.

 

[corpsman8404]

eh IMHO i think tile is the way to go. its permanent and easy to clean. you get enough tiles to fill your tank and you never have to buy again. cleaning takes a matter of a few seconds.and it will still look good depending on what color tile you use. hell or you could always do half tile half sand.

 

[civicgrl88]

I've kept beardies for about 3 and a half years now and have used almost every substrate there is on the market. When it comes down to it, the only pet store/commercial brand substrate thats "OK" is the excavator clay substrate. The downfalls with it are that it dyes the dragon's scales red and that when it breaks off it can be ingested. I personally use tile for all of my dragons now and I love it. It's simple to clean and never needs to be replaced.

Even though I'm a fan of non-particle substrates (tile, newspaper, paper towel, non-adhesive shelf liner, reptile carpet) I do think that washed playsand and an organic soil mixture is fine to use ONLY and ONLY if the person has had years of keeping their dragon successfully and has studied their behavior in a "safe" environment. Even still the risk of impaction is there but using it on older dragons lessens the risk slightly. The organic soil has good bacteria that breaks down the poo to a certain extent as well.

Every substrate will have its pros and cons no matter if its particle or non-particle. I personally feel that for beginners and people who don't have the time to maintain a particle substrate should stick to non-particle substrates for the safety of their dragon and for the ease in their life.

I offer my guys a removable container of dirt for them to "play" in and burrow into which is also another option some people could use.

 

[athenacp]

Initially I had Digger on play sand, then he had gotten pinworms/hookworms and the vet told me to use a towel as his substrate while medicating him. Did that, then after a while went back to the sand, he got worms again! Put him back on the towel, now that's all I use-I have several that I use strictly for him and change the towel about 5 times a week depending on what he does for the week.

Never going back to sand, this was twice, don't want 3 strikes.

Granted I think I am the only one that uses bath towels, but it works and Digger is now almost 7 years old now.

 

[civicgrl88]

With some help I found the information I was looking for:
http://www.petzoo.co.uk/extra_info_pages.php?pages_id=29,
http://www.thereptileking.com/knowledgemanager/questions.php?questionid=427
http://www.inchem.org/documents/icsc/icsc/eics0406.htm
I hope this information helps a little.After I read the information the first time and saw the xrays I decided that it wasn't worth the risk to me to use sand at all.

my friend actually caught something in this post that i didnt, the chemical in the last post isnt the same as calcium carbonate (CACO3)...they are talking about calcium carbide (CACA2) which are 2 different chemicals...im not saying calci-sand isnt the substrate of evil just wanted to point out what my friend caught