Yellow Fungus?!? Please Help

[speedyfuzzball]

My brother got a bearded dragon, Yoshi, around late July of 2011 and we recently took him to the vet who thinks (they wanted to perform a biopsy on a sample but we couldn't afford it so we don't actually know) he has yellow fungus. It has spread through most of his chest/stomach area as well as parts of his legs, arms, and anal area. His back left leg is swollen and two of his fingers are missing. We got medication for him to last 10 days after which we are supposed to go back to the vet to see if there's any progress... I just spoke to my mother who said that her and my dad aren't willing to pay any extra for vet visits or medicine.. Basically she's saying if he gets better after the 10 days of medication (which he won't because I heard treatment for yellow fungus is very lengthy), then we'll continue caring for him but if not, he's going to have to be put down. I guess I just wanted to know what his chances are of surviving fungus this severe...

Here is some background info on him:
He was purchased at Petco. In his first few months with us (I'm going to guess around 6 months but I'm not 100% certain), his diet consisted of about 10 small crickets that were dusted with calcium powder daily and bearded dragon pellets, which lasted for the first few months, and eventually the calcium sprinkling stopped. Then the crickets stopped. Eventually it was just the pellets and very rarely, some vegetables. My brother was misinformed about the diet of these lizards and thought that Yoshi didn't need crickets OR calcium after about 6 months. I actually started noticing the hard bits of "fungus" or whatever it is on his body a while ago but thought it was skin that hadn't shed off yet and thought it would soon. His leg started swelling and I tried to look up what could have caused that and found that it might be metabolic bone diseases so I started to dust his pellets with calcium and purchased large crickets for him whenever I could (usually once a week) but he wasn't interested in them after like 5 or 6.

I now know that a bearded dragon was obviously not a good first pet for a 11 year old and as much as I regret my brother getting Yoshi, there is nothing I could do about that now except for try and find more information on all of this. I'm sorry this is very disorganized; I'm just very upset but I did want to get this out as soon as possible. Please, if anyone has words of advice or anything, please let me know.

 

[dragonlover3]

Hi,
It impossible to speculate on it being fungus with out photos, even then it's difficult
...but can you post a photos of him and showing the sites. How old is he?

Can you tell us about your set up for him?
Do you have a UVB light for him?....what is the name of the bulb?....how old is it?
What do you measure temps with?...dial, strip, digital probe or temp gun?
What are the 3 temps?....basking surface?....hot end?....cool end?
What do you use for a heat/basking light?
What substrate is in the bottom of his tank?
Do you bath him?...when was his last bath?...giving him a 10 or 15 minute soak to hydrate.

What medicine did the vet prescribe for 10 days?...is it oral or applied topically?
Did the vet prescribe any medicated soak?
If it is fungus you are correct, it will be a long treatment.
Many keepers here have fought fungus and were successful. It's not easy and it takes dedication and it will cost some money to get the stuff you need.
Some have their own particulars but have common denominators.
You can soak him for 10 minutes every day in diluted Betadine solution. Diluted to look like weak tea. Don't let him drink any of it and don't get it in his eyes?
You can apply either Monistat or Lamisil antifungals twice daily to the sites of the fungus, once after the diluted Betadine bath and at bedtime. You can get Betadine and the antifungals at Super stores like Walmart. You will need several tubes of it for the long term treatments.
I'd get Hibiclens to clean his tank with, also found at the super stores in the pharmacy . It's safe and effective. When 2 of my beardies had fungus I started out in the early weeks of the treatments stripping and cleaning their tanks daily then as the weeks progressed and I saw signs of big improvement, I went to strip cleaning it every 2 days. In the beginning when I found the fungus, I threw away almost everything that had been in their tanks, and used small, disposable cardboard boxes for hides and basking platforms all 9 weeks of treatments.
The treatments will cost some money for the Betadine, Monistat and Lamisil and Hibiclens. When he looses his appetite you will need some baby food squash and baby food chicken to feed him so he doesn't loose a lot of weight. If your mother would like to read the forums here on fungus and see that treatment is long but can be successful perhaps she would reconsider. I'm sorry to say, but if your mother isn't open to a return vet visit or spending any more money for the supplies for treatment then I wonder if you have thought about turning him over to a rescue for treatment as sad as it may be to part with him. It sounds serious and he needs a long term dedicated treatment on the fungus and we haven't even addressed the Metabolic Bone Disease. I am hoping the best for the poor little guy and I hope you will be able to treat him or do the right thing for him and get him to a rescue. Please let us know? how is he doing?
Amanda

 

[speedyfuzzball]

Umm, I'm not sure how to add photos on here? I did take some though so I will post them as soon as I figure out how.
I'm not sure exactly how old he is.. We got him at the end of July 2011 and he was pretty small so I'm going to guess he's nearing a year now?
After reading your post, I threw away his log (basking platform), green carpet (we never used sandy substrates as I heard they could be harmful if accidentally swallowed, his plastic food and water dishes and set down a layer of paper towels and new ceramic dishes because they seems easier to clean than the plastic ones which are built to resemble a rock or something so bacteria/fungus can hide in the little crevices. Hm, what else? The tank is 20 gallons big and we do have a UVB light for him.. it's Reptisun 5.0 UVB Compact Fluorescent 26W AC120V/60Hz. It'll be a year old at the end of this July.
We actually got a "bearded dragon kit" instead of buying all of the supplies separately and it came with one sticker thermometer that we stuck on the hot side/basking area which usually reads 100-110 degrees F. I'm not sure what the cooler side is since we never had a thermometer there. I was actually wondering what kind of thermometers would be best? I was at Petco just before but I decided to ask on here first. I know the sticker ones aren't that accurate..
The heat/basking light is the one that came with the kit and it wasn't labeled.
Unfortunately, we never bathed him before he got sick.. My brother used to spray him and his tank with a spray bottle of water about once a day to help with shedding.

The vet prescribed 5 different things:
1. A bath with 1 part Nolvasan in 9 parts water, 15 minutes daily
2. A topical cream, Silver Sulfadiazine cream, thin layer applied to affected areas once daily
3. Oral medication, Sporonox, 5 units (of a syringe that they gave us) daily
4. A feeding formula (comes in powder form, stored in fridge until right before serving when it's mixed with water to a pancake consistency), 5 full syringes daily
5. An antibiotic shot given in his arm every three days

Thank you so much for responding, I feel like there may be hope for him. I wasn't aware that there are cheaper alternatives to the medications prescribed by the vet which ended up being around $200 for 10 days. I will definitely follow your advice once the current medicine runs out. But just in case it may be too much to handle, would you know of any rescue centers that would take in a bearded dragon as sick as mine? I have thought about this option too and I wasn't sure if anyone would be willing to take him in. I just want the best for him.

 

[kcarello]

Unfortunatley, you need to fix a few issues with lighting and thermometers. The UVB light you have is no good and can be causing more harm to your baby. You need to get a Reptisun 10.0 tube uvb light, and a digital thermometer with a probe or a temp. gun. These things need to be addressed as badly as his treatment for the possible yellow fungus. Sorry your little guy is not doing well, hopefully your mom will let you fix these things and for the treatment for him. If not, perhaps you will be able to find a rescue for him.
Kelly

 

[AHBD]

Aw, poor Yoshi...I just wanted to say I really hope for the best outcome for your dragon.

 

[dragonlover3]

After reading your post, I threw away his log (basking platform), green carpet (we never used sandy substrates as I heard they could be harmful if accidentally swallowed, his plastic food and water dishes and set down a layer of paper towels and new ceramic dishes because they seems easier to clean than the plastic ones which are built to resemble a rock or something so bacteria/fungus can hide in the little crevices. Excellent!
Hm, what else? The tank is 20 gallons big and we do have a UVB light for him.. it's Reptisun 5.0 UVB Compact Fluorescent 26W AC120V/60Hz. It'll be a year old at the end of this July. How big is your dragon? If he's about a year old I'm going to guess he's to big for a 20 gal. tank and will need at least a 40 gal. but for now, while he's being treated for the fungus it's fine to leave him in the 20gal until treatment is over. It can act as his hospital tank. The Reptisun 5.0 coil isn't a good UVB for bearded dragons. You will want to get a ReptiSun 10.0 florescent tube or an Arcadia D3 12% florescent tube to give him adaquate UVB.
We actually got a "bearded dragon kit" instead of buying all of the supplies separately and it came with one sticker thermometer that we stuck on the hot side/basking area which usually reads 100-110 degrees F. I'm not sure what the cooler side is since we never had a thermometer there. I was actually wondering what kind of thermometers would be best? I was at Petco just before but I decided to ask on here first. I know the sticker ones aren't that accurate.. Unfortunately those kits aren't very functional for dragons. Only some of the equipment is usable...like the tank and the dome light fixture for the basking bulb and maybe the dish :roll: . I'll bypass my opinion on the jack-ass companies that manufacture those kits and the jack-ass pet shops that sell them! Those dial thermometers are junk and can be up to 20* off. You can get an accurate digital probe thermometer for about $12 at a Walmart. You will need to know 3 temps areas in his tank, the basking SURFACE....the hot end....the cool end. Temps are critical to their health. Proper temps are needed to digest and absorb nutrition, and for keeping the immune system functioning well. The temps for a healthy year old dragon should be 95 to 100*F on his basking surface, about 90*F on his hot end and 78*F to 82*F on the cool end. That is for a healthy dragon, but since your guy is sick I'd bump up his basking surface to 102*F to 103*F which will stimulate his immune system to function better. Be aware the higher temps can risk dehydrated so make sure he stays hydrated. The daily medicated soaks will keep him hydrated for now.
The heat/basking light is the one that came with the kit and it wasn't labeled. In the future you don't need an expensive reptile basking bulbs. You can use a regular bright white house light bulb for their basking bulb. It will provide the heat and light needed and is much less expensive.
Unfortunately, we never bathed him before he got sick.. My brother used to spray him and his tank with a spray bottle of water about once a day to help with shedding. You will be bathing him daily in the Nolvasan thru the treatment so that will help keep him hydrated as they absorb water thru their waste vent. Baths should be warm like for a human baby, and very shallow, up to his elbows but no higher than his shoulders. Gently drizzle the medicated bath water over his back and neck but make sure not to get it in his ears or eyes.In the future after the treatments are finished you can bath him anywhere from twice weekly to daily. All 4 of my dragons get a daily 10 minute soak for hydration. There is no need to spray or mist dragons as they don't absorb water thru their skin and spraying them in their tank will raise humidity levels which can cause respiratory issues or infections. They need low humidity. Some do spray for a shed but you can remove him from the tank to spray him.

The vet prescribed 5 different things:
1. A bath with 1 part Nolvasan in 9 parts water, 15 minutes dailyExcellent!
2. A topical cream, Silver Sulfadiazine cream, thin layer applied to affected areas once dailyAgain, excellent!
3. Oral medication, Sporonox, 5 units (of a syringe that they gave us) dailyThat is the oral anti-fungal itraconazole. Oral anti-fungals are very harsh on their systems. He will will become lethargic and loose his appetite if he hasn't already.
4. A feeding formula (comes in powder form, stored in fridge until right before serving when it's mixed with water to a pancake consistency), 5 full syringes dailyThat's great! Do you know the name of the formula?
5. An antibiotic shot given in his arm every three days This is to treat/prevent a secondary bacterial infection while he's ill with the fungus. I'd get a probiotic and add it to his formula you are feeding him. Antibiotics kill off all bacteria, good and bad. A probiotic helps replace and restore the good gut bacteria which will help get and keep the internal yeast in check. Some probiotics are BeneBac you can get at pet shops and follow the directiions, or acidophilus you can get at a Walmart in the pharmacy section...like 60 to 100 tabs for $5.00. Crush a tablet and add a pinch a day to the formula he's being fed. 1 crushed tab lasts a while since you only need a pinch, or you can give him a couple of ml's of soy yogurt daily. Make sure it's soy, dragons don't do dairy.

Thank you so much for responding, I feel like there may be hope for him. I wasn't aware that there are cheaper alternatives to the medications prescribed by the vet which ended up being around $200 for 10 days. I will definitely follow your advice once the current medicine runs out. But just in case it may be too much to handle, would you know of any rescue centers that would take in a bearded dragon as sick as mine? I have thought about this option too and I wasn't sure if anyone would be willing to take him in. I just want the best for him. Maybe you could call a local vet or animal shelter and ask them if one is available to take a sick bearded dragon. I'm aware some vets do rescue.

I hope this helps.
Amanda

 

[speedyfuzzball]

Thank you everyone for your advice and kind words of encouragement

Although Yoshi is nearing a year of age, he is still relatively small. The vet told us that normal dragons his age should be three times his size... =(
Tomorrow, I'm going shopping for a Reptisun 10 light, Betadine, Hibiclens, digital probe thermometer, and a probiotic.
Haha yea, we got everything (including Yoshi) from Petco and they didn't seem very knowledgeable about these little guys =(
For the hot and cold ends, would I just be holding the probe in the air and waiting for a beep or something? Not sure how these thermometers work.. And if the temperature is off, how would I fix it? The lights don't have different levels or anything =/
Do you recommend that I stop giving him the Sporonox? Tracie told me it was the best oral antifungal but didn't mention if I should stop or not
The feeding formula is called Ox Bow Animal Health Carnivore Care. On the back, it says it's a premium recovery food with the first few ingredients being Dried whole egg, Poultry meal, fish oil, tricalcium phosphate, silicone dioxide... I can take a picture of the rest of the ingredients if needed.

Also, is it a good thing if some of the fungus is falling off?
I will try to post some pictures soon

Thanks so much!

 

[speedyfuzzball]

 

[kcarello]

The thermometer is easy to use. Put the probe on the basking SURFACE for at least 45 minutes before getting a final temp. Then just put it on the hot side and do the same thing, leave it for 45 minutes, check the temp. Then the cool side, the same way. You can change the temps as needed with different light bulbs. You can use regular bright light household light bulbs. Try the basking light you already have, if its too hot, go with a lower wattage bulb, until you get the right temps. I think 95 - 105 for the basking temp would be o.k.. When you get the Reptisun 10.0 tube light, make sure you put the basking bulb right next to the UVB bulb and mount the light in the fixture inside the tank with either command hooks or velcro. Make sure your dragon can get 6 - 8 inches from the UVB, and make sure you check your temps with the basking spot where he can get that close to the UVB, cause the basking temp will be hotter, and like I said if you need to lower the temp, get a lower wattage light bulb. It is really sad that the pet stores don't know anything about how to care for these babies!!
I cant' help you with the med part of your questions, surely Tracie witll be on later to help you out with that.

 

[SpikesAgirl]

Hi there...Didn't see your name. I'm sorry about your beardie having fungus. I just wanted to say something really quick as I'm not done reading everything that's been posted so far. Keep a close eye on him while he is taking intraconazole. My beardie was prescribed that also to treat pneumonia. I'm not sure if it was the intraconazole alone or because it was being used in conjunction with amikacin through a nebulizer BUT she almost died from it. My beardie lost her appetite, became lethargic, and by the 5th day COMPLETELY non-responsive. You are giving yours Carnivore Care also, so that may help get yours through the treatment. My beardie also has a fungus problem. Not confirmed that it's yellow fungus but it is fungus. I am currently using a product called REPTAID and it's helping to clear her up. I'm going to go back and read the rest of your thread before I post anything else though. I want to make sure I get all your info correct first! Just keep an eye on him on that med!! Scary stuff.

Hugs,

Sue

 

[dragonlover3]

Hi speedyfuzzball,
First, I want you to know Tracie, user name Drache613, is one of the most respected experts on this forum. When she advises you, I'd follow it to the letter! She has helped many, many keepers and their dragons.....me and my 4 dragons included! I have the utmost respect for and confidence in Tracie.

When I referred to the oral anti-fungal Sporonox, I should have clarified it was a good drug. I was just giving you a heads up on it being very harsh on their system and the possible-probable symptoms you may see in appetite loss and lethargy as I was assuming you were already giving it.

I have read Carnivore Care is an excellent supplemental nutrition and have read many threads where it is recommended.

I'm going to be honest and say that looks horrible, the poor boy! The fungus is already leaving cracks and craters. He will need diligent and persistent anti-fungal treatments daily for quite a while, perhaps months. {It took 9 weeks of daily treatments of anti-fungal soaks &ointments on my 2 dragons who developed fungus to be fungus free and their fungus wasn't as bad as this.}

It is his scales and skin that is falling off due to the fungus. I can see dry cratered areas. Any open wounds could become infected. Keeping his tank spotlessly clean, a wipe out daily with Hibiclens solution and changing the paper towels daily can help prevent infections but will also wipe away the fungus and spore from his environment every day.

Here is a suggestion to help make him more comfortable. I'd get some soft material, fleece is good as it doesn't snag their scales but any soft material will work. You will need 4 or 5 pieces so you can wash them as they are changed daily.. You can lay one on his basking spot for him to rest They can be changed every day when the paper towels are changed, giving him a clean soft cushioned area to lay on. That can't feel too comfortable! Also it may feel more comfortable to him to gently wrap him in a soft cloth to hold him.
How is he tonight?
Amanda

 

[SpikesAgirl]

Guys, she has stated that her parents are not up for spending a lot of money. We need to make suggestions here that will be a little cheaper for her. Any creams or soaks she has to get, she can get the "generic" brands of everything. For example:
Betadine vs. Equate (Wal-mart's store generic) Povidone-Iodine Solution 10% will save about 5 bux.
*If she's already soaking Yoshi in Nolvasan, does she need Betadine also?? They're different ingredients but they are both anti-microbials...? I've read that Nolvasan is better is some circumstances.
Lamisil = Terbinafine Hydrochloride
Monistat= Miconazole Nitrate
*Should 1, 3 or 7 day be used? 7 day will be much cheaper than the 1 day cream.

When you are soaking Yoshi, does he drink from or poop in the water? If so, you have to put him in plain water first, let him drink/poop (if he poops, obviously you have to empty out the water & put new water in), then put the Nolvasan or Betadine in the water.

For the Reptisun 10.0 bulb, you need the tube type, not the coil type bulb (in case this has not been explained to you already, probably has, everyone here will tell you this about the UVB bulbs). If your beardie is in a 20 gallon tank, you only need the 18 inch bulb. New bulb type means you need to buy a different type of fixture. Petmountain.com is having a sale right now on Zoo-Med fixtures. I just checked. You would need a credit card obviously to order online (How old are you? Just wondering...I don't want to talk to you like you're 5 if you're 25 :wink: ) You can also get a fixture at Wal-Mart in the lighting section or a local hardware store. It has to be a fixture that will hold a T8 type bulb. Bring the bulb with you when you go to get it. The fixture at Petco (Zoo Med Reptisun Terrarium Hood) is going to cost around $30 - 35. The bulb itself costs around $25. If you get one at Wal-Mart or hardware store, you will need the heavy duty suction cups to hang it in the tank as it may not be they type to sit on top of the screen cover.

Just trying to find ways to keep costs down for you! I know this is a lot of information for you right now, everyone here wants to help you help your brothers beardie!!!

*Edit-What is the antibiotic Yoshi is getting by injection??
*If you end up getting a fixture that will have to be inside mounted you could get something like this to mount it:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00404YRY2/ref=as_li_ss_til?tag=aemavm-20&camp=0&creative=0&linkCode=as4&creativeASIN=B00404YRY2&adid=0AS7JBN026FZR7X9HDN2
*Benebac gel can be found in Petco. If you can't find it in the reptile section, look in the bird section-it's for birds & reptiles, the link below is just to show you what the package looks like:
http://www.wag.com/bird/p/petag-bird-bene-bac-plus-gel-4-pack-108924

Hugs,

Sue

 

[speedyfuzzball]

This morning when I was taking care of Yoshi, I noticed that yet another one of his fingers looked like/is probably starting to fall off.. I don’t know why this is happening, don’t know how to stop it and it’s really upsetting.. It already seems like he can’t move it and doesn’t have feeling in it..
Some of the skin that is affected with the fungus is coming off and that also is scaring me because I don’t want that to come off if the skin underneath isn’t grown/strong enough.

I went shopping today and I picked up some Equate Povidone-Iodine Solution 10% (I ran out of the Nolvasan that the vet prescribed), Benebac probiotics, and Hibiclens.

A few things I couldn’t get today:

Reptisun 10 – Firstly, I wanted to make sure it was the right one. It was kind of skinny and very long and around $30. I actually took a picture of it but I stupidly left my phone at my boyfriend’s house today so I’ll put that up tomorrow. Also, I found a UVB light of a different brand, Zilla, and I was wondering if it was as good as Reptisun 10? I also took a picture of that but since I don’t have my phone at the moment, I can’t remember any specifics… Anyway, the reason I was interested in this light is because it comes with the light bulb AND fixture for $40 while the Reptisun 10 comes with just the light bulb for $30.. I’ll put a picture of it up tomorrow.

Digital probe thermometer – I went to the pharmacy section of Walmart where all of the cold/fever supplies are and found a thermometer used to check for fevers via under tongue, anus, armpit, etc and it was around $3 but I didn’t get it because it didn’t seem right. I also took a picture of that which I’ll post tomorrow. I was then going to go to the cooking section to look for a thermometer there but couldn’t find anything. Should I just order this online?
-
I have a question about the hibiclens.. I wasn’t sure exactly how to use it.. Would I just dab some on a paper towel and clean like that or mix it with water? I was thinking about getting a spray bottle and mixing hibiclens and water in it to spray it where ever I need. Is this a good idea?

Yoshi does not drink from or poop in the water so that isn’t a problem but today, when I was giving him his first povidine-iodine solution 10%, he kept splashing around causing the solution to get on/around his eyes which kind of concerned me.

Haha, you were close! I’m 21 and I do have a credit card. I checked out the website and I think this http://www.petmountain.com/product/reptile-fixtures-strip-lights/11442-504030/zilla-slim-line-reptile-desert-lamp.html might have been the light bulb/fixture I mentioned previously but I’m not 100% sure. If this or the one I saw at Petco, which I’ll post a picture of tomorrow, aren’t right for Yoshi, I’ll save up for the Reptisun 10 and its fixture.

Thank you so much for helping me and Yoshi out. I am willing to spend whatever it takes to help him recover but I am a unemployed college student so vet visits and their medications are kind of out of my reach =(
I actually don’t know which antibiotic Yoshi was prescribed. My mom put it somewhere, I don’t know but I can ask her tomorrow. I stopped giving it to him though since most people said it can actually be harmful. I also started giving him probiotics which hopefully will help.

Would it be safe to hang the light inside the cage?? I feel like I’d be paranoid that it would fall and crush him! =(

Thanks again for everyone’s help. Yoshi and I REALLY appreciate it

 

[speedyfuzzball]

I got my phone back!

Making sure I'm looking at the right light. It's the yellow one on the right, correct? Reptisun 10.0 is the yellow one in the middle. It's the best tube light on the market. The other tube lights are for geckos or other reptiles but not for beardies, they need full spectrum UVB, like sunlight. Which you can also do, put him outside as much as possible. Full sunlight is really the best UVB

Wondering if this would work as well as Reptisun 10? It would work better with my budget because the light and fixture together are $40 while Reptisun 10 alone is $30. If not I will definitely get Reptisun.

Is this the right thermometer?

Sorry if I'm asking too many questions! x_x I just want to make sure I've got everything right. I want the best for Yoshi

 

[Evergreen]

Everything except the thermeter is correct. I cant get a link right now but your looking for a little rectangle with a digital read out screen and attached to that is a long wire with a thinker part at the end. Type in "zoo med digital thermometer with probe" into amazon and that should come il with some links.

I'm sorry to hear he's not at the top of his game but I hope he starts improving soon. :|

Looking back at your pictures I think that fixture would be hard to mount under a screen. Maybe check home Dept or a similar store for something lighter and easier to mount?