Xena struggling ~ R.I.P. My Special Love

[spurlee01]

Whoops should have clarified a bit more. It was 6-8 inches for Lil's reptisun but you would want whatever the recommended distance is for your bulb. I'm sure you have it there, but that is what popped into my head when I read your post.

 

[blondie098]

No prob, there's no way to memorize who has what bulbs :mrgreen: She looks so sad & worn out, she was poked, prodded, stabbed with needles, and goo slathered all over her belly. Poor dear has had "one of those days". She isn't even interested in cuddling :shock: and she's our cuddle hog (this is MY chair, and MY human bob bob bob)...

I am literally inventorying old toys and stuff to see if I can even put a garage sale together. This bites. I hope Tracie comes along to check the meds dosage levels... and I'm trying to transfer the xray right now, I know everyone doesn't get to see one very often. As soon as he started talking about them not calcifying, I started thinking of li'l JoJo, and just about cried!

 

[spurlee01]

Well let me some up me and Lil's story. In August of last year (she was 9 months old) Lil decided to brumate. She got up in December and acted gravid. I took her to the vet who felt her abdomen, felt eggs, did xrays and confirmed this. She did not lay eggs. We took her for more xrays and the eggs were gone. So I figured they were reabsorbed. Well in January she started acting like that again. We took her to a second vet (our vet didn't feel qualified to continue dealing with her) because she had lost about 10% of her body weight. So the second vet was a quack and I got upset and walked out of the office, then made another appointment with a third vet. She was great, and confirmed with both blood levels and xrays that Lil had eggs. Months went by, she never laid any. During this time, Lil's weight yo-yoed and she would dig/ scratch her tiles CONSTANTLY. I had to take the tiles out because she wore her nails down to nothing. Anyway, long story short, Lilly never did lay eggs, apparently they just "disappeared" or maybe never existed, we're not sure. Anyway I don't know if there is ANYTHING in there that can help you, but thought I would share just in case. What made me think about all this was that our vet told us at one point that Lil's eggs just weren't calcifying.

 

[blondie098]

Sara, we think this is the 2nd set of eggs, first were resorbed -- but this 2nd set is acting differently. She is trying to lay. Bum is all swollen. We of course are very worried about prolapse because she was pushing so hard, and so often.

So our vet is aware that this is round #2... but this time, she's even acting differently (more aggressive, straining hard to lay what's not ready to be laid, not eating, etc.) and that's all on top of her partial amputation because she threw a bloodclot in her tail and that last 2.5 inches had to come off on Sept. 13th.

Here's her Xray -- Dr. explained that the white masses are the eggs, not wanting to let go of the ovaries -- but when you examine her belly, it feels like fully formed eggs are at her pelvic, ready to pass. She is one sneaky dragon, because I can feel the individual round areas low! But apparently there are not any eggs that low.

It's amazing how these guys have a lot of characteristics like us, like the tib-fib bones, the radius-ulna bones, the phalanges, the collarbone... I had to take the picture with my phone while it was on the docs computer screen:

 

[Drache613]

Hello Dawn!

WOW Xena is so gravid she is very round right now!
What is her weight, & I will double check the doses for you. The Metcam & Fortaz should be fine, it appears to be conservative no problem. I really hope that she doesn't have an infection.
I take it that she is not eating anything at all right now?

Try to keep her as calm as possible. They are wanting to take the eggs out, or not? Is she egg bound that they can tell? Have they considered Oxytocin yet? The eggs have dropped, but I am not sure if the hormone would do much, if they are not calcified enough, or low enough.

Tracie

 

[blondie098]

Hi Tracie, I'm so glad you popped in to see the xray! She was 654 12 days ago when she had the amputation. Today she's weighing in at about 630. No, she hasn't eaten much except for a couple supers. We're bathing every day, but she doesn't want to take liquids from a syringe right now.

So we have Critical Care & Carnivore Care on hand, as well as Pedialyte. She likes to do the worst parts late into the evening, so I've already stocked up! :mrgreen:

With so many eggs having dropped, but not properly calcified, I think he's worried that the Oxy may not help. He didn't assess her as eggbound. So we're giving her a couple days to see how she does ... he thinks we may have to go as far as surgery to remove them. My heart dropped when he said that. Of course, if she worsens at all in the next few days, we will go straight to him. Albeit I am not sure what other account I can bleed, I've used my reserves at this point, hence my being scared worse now.

We had to learn how to do injections of the antibiotic today. That just about did me in, so Carl has to do the shot tomorrow, I cannot stick that needles into my baby :shock: The Metacam is oral.

Tracie, do you think since she's not eating well for 4 days now, and has lost a little, would CC be a good idea tomorrow? I have a new pouch of each, so I can mix 3/4 Critical with 1/4 Carnivore?

 

[Drache613]

Hello Dawn,

How is Xena doing this evening?
I forgot to ask if you knew the concentration of the medications by chance?
The Metcam looks pretty good, as the recommended dose is only .1 to .2mg/kg but that will depend on the strength of the meds. The Fortaz looks good, & the dose for this one is 20mg/kg but I don't think that he dosed her for that, it looks like it is less. Though, I don't know the strength of the solution.

She is losing weight, so giving her some Critical care would be a good idea to help her out.
I agree, the Oxytocin may not work, if she has not shelled the eggs completely or they are not in a good position. If they take the eggs out, are they going to take out the oviducts & ovaries, too? Has he given calcium booster shots as well?
If she is not egg bound the surgery should be pretty easy. Could he give you a discount, or at least a payment plan to help out?
Poor girl, I really hope that she is feeling better soon!

Tracie

 

[blondie098]

Hi Tracie, the surgery is all up in the air at the moment, we're waiting a few days to see how she does overall. She is calm, laying on & hugging her rolled up blankies at the moment. We're starting the CC this morning, we'll see how that goes. She does take squash baby food fairly readily... not sure what the CC tastes like?

This is what the labels say on the meds:
Metacam 0.1ml orally once daily (no other info on that one!)

Fortaz 0.04 give once daily by injection (and its already prepared with the proper amount in each syringe). We gave her one yesterday to learn how, then she gets one today, skip Monday, then another Tuesday. Have no idea the strength? Had no idea that dragon skin was SO THICK!

Carl & I discussed it yesterday, if we can somehow swing the surgery to take the eggs out, we'd rather she not be able to do this again. For her health, and our sanity. She is our only girl, and she was a rescue off Craigslist -- she's the one they were only feeding 2x a week. We have loved her since we first saw her, and never were interested in breeding her, so sterility is of no concern.

How safe is surgery like this? How often does surgery like this go wrong and cause other issues? What should I expect for a reasonable cost? Recuperation time? Caring for incision (how on earth do you let a belly incision heal on a dragon?!?!?)? I am trying to mentally prepare myself, I am just so worried about her.

 

[Drache613]

Hello Dawn,

I realize this is hard, Xena has already been through too much.
This is a fairly routine surgery & as long as there are no unforseen complications, she should come out of the surgery with no problems at all. Obviously, sometimes, there are complications but you can hope for none.
Belly incisions do heal, but she wont be able to have a bath until it heals. Usually they are given silver sulfadiazine cream or some other type of cream to help with healing. I don't know if they will use the stitches that dissolve naturally or ones that have to be taken out after a few weeks. You will need to line the tank with soft towels, & lower her basking spot to the bottom of the tank so she doesn't have to climb for awhile. Other than that, she will just be sore for a little while also.
The cost does vary, but you are probably looking at around $600-800, hopefully no more than that. I hope that he does give you some type of break with the cost, that would be really nice of him to consider it. I would definitely ask, for sure!
The amount of meds look ok so I wouldn't worry about it. The Fortaz is probably diluted or already dosed out for her weight. The Metacam is used for pain management.
So she likes the squash baby food then? Did she like the critical care at all?
Their skin is relatively thick & hard to get the needle through. You have to go "in between" the scales. Are you pointing the needle cranial or caudal?
How is she doing today?

Tracie

 

[beardie parents]

Gosh, Dawn I would be terrified if I were in your shoes. I am soo thankful that I've never had egg problems, that I know of with any of my girls. I may have had with one of my first two girls but I'm not really sure. We knew soo little of beardies then. We've learned soo much since we got our first two. All I remember is seeing two long, skinny, squishy yellow things in their viv one morning (they slept in a 20 gallon but had the roam of the house during the day and their basking spot was the bedroom window). I didn't know, then what they were, never took pics. Now that I've learned more, I realize they were infertile eggs, at least I think they were.

I hope and pray things work out well for your Xena (love the name, BTW). This was just so I can easier keep track of what is going on with her.

 

[blondie098]

Hi Traci, she wasn't too keen on the CC. But it was our first time, so we'll try again tomorrow with it. We are pointing the needle cranial, and he showed us to gently grab her arm, then squish the muscle toward us, then position the needle in the crook of the scale (where the scales meet in a "point") -- then insert the needle, draw back a smidge to make sure we're not in a vein, if no blood, somewhat slowly inject. Then hold our finger over the hole when the needle is removed, and rub, so the meds don't seep out. Gawd, that just hurt me to type that description!

He also said to always use the front arms, not the back legs -- sometimes the meds can leech into the urinary tract and they can pee out the meds relatively quickly? That sounded corney, just sharing what he mentioned.

We had a thought to try and raise the money for this surgery. We really only had $500 set aside for vet emergencies, with this horrible economy. Needless to say we had to dip into other resources for the rest of her costs lately. If anyone is interested in quilts with lizard motifs, please let me know, and I will list in the forsale thread. I have created a "stained glass" looking quilt with a beautiful batik lizard centerpiece (for my couch). I will post a picture when its ready. I am going to list the beardie blankies again, but am going to have to sell a lot of them to help offset this new cost.

 

[spurlee01]

Best of luck, Dawn. Lilly wouldn't eat the CC by itself but she would eat it if i made a mixture with some babyfood squash and a tiny bit of pears if she was still bein picky.

 

[Goonie]

Gosh Dawn, at this point you're probably more stressed (physically and emotionally) than Xena
I'm hoping you won't have to go the surgery route, that she'll be able to pass the eggs by herself soon.


Big hugs to you and Xena, from me and my babies.

 

[blondie098]

Aw, poor baby saw everyone getting to run around the living room. She looked so sad, but she is still passing lots of urates because of the egg pressure. Viola ... now don't laugh too hard, guys & gals ... we designed a beardie diaper so she could run, and I can just throw the fabric away when she is done getting exercise.

She is so happy to be out, I felt so bad because I didn't want white sticky urates all over my blue carpeting.

 

[Goonie]

No you didn't! I wanna see!!!