When did the 40Gal standard change?

[Aceyourface]

Ok I will probably get crap for this because I have been out of the loop for a while. Now when I got Thor as a baby back in 2011 I believe I had her in a 10 or 20 gal tank until she got too big for it. After researching online and talking to other beardie owners back then it seemed that 40gal was sufficient for adult bearded dragons. I feel like I was even told that years ago on this message board too. Recently a member on this board said that it is not sufficient and should be in a 120gal tank. That seems really big for one beardie, though I am sure Thor would be happy in something that large, I know I would be if I were her. I am planning on upgrading her soon to a bigger tank because I feel she deserves something better than what she is in now, but is 120gal really the new standard for everyone? When did it change? Or was I just given bad information all these years? :?

 

[JessPets]

Well, here's the thing:
Yes, technically a beardie can live in a 40gal for its whole life.
But then again, you can live in a closet for your whole life, too. But obviously that wouldn't be a good life. Really, a 4x2x2 should be standard, not 40gal. Most people simply don't think that they need all that space, as they aren't super hyper-active creatures, but that's not true.

Just my 2¢

 

[Aceyourface]

Well, here's the thing:
Yes, technically a beardie can live in a 40gal for its whole life.
But then again, you can live in a closet for your whole life, too. But obviously that wouldn't be a good life. Really, a 4x2x2 should be standard, not 40gal. Most people simply don't think that they need all that space, as they aren't super hyper-active creatures, but that's not true.

Just my 2¢

Hey thats a valid 2cents I was just curious and you make a good point.

 

[DracoBeard]

I do believe it is subject to opinion,,,their are some sizes that are just to small,,,this will
depend on your Dragons type,,,(what Kind of Dragon?) is it a German Giant,,,or one of the
smaller Breeds,How often does your beardie spend time out of the vivs,,,Some Dragons
spend time out of the viv other then their required light and bask times,,,they have much
better vivs close to that 40 gal Breeder today,,,such as the 36x18x18 exo terra with swinging
front doors ,removable and locking top mesh,,,and built in ventilation,,,a 3d type rock back
wall with built in wire routing,,that 18" hieght makes a big difference when it comes to room.
and where you set up your Basking you can bring it up to any desired height from the basking
bulb,,,after your dragon settles down a bit instead of running a 36 inch uv on top of the mesh
take the top off and run the uv and bask open,,,36 uv will go the length and sit on the ends,,,
put everything on a timer.

the main thing is if you can go for the room ( on top of a dresser or a custom built) 4 ft,5ft,6ft
viv then do it,, remember this,,it is not concrete, and know one is authority when it comes to
size,,,just as long as you dont go sticking and Adult dragon in a 20 gallon,,30 gallon tank, and
most of all take the time to enjoy your little friend.

Cheers, Draco.






and one more important thing ,,, if you do not have the size then dont go crowding up
the viv with all this stuff that is not essential,,,a dragon does not need a water bowl in
the viv,,if one does the research you will learn how to hydrate your dragon,,,give a
Basking sight and in the middle a place to get out of the bask,,on the cold side a hide
( resting area) none of this is concrete,,,,set it up as you see fit,,,given that you have
done your research and understand the dragons viv,

 

[Gormagon]

A 40gl breeder is the minimum requirement for an adult dragon. The 120 mentioned is a 2'x 2'x 4' that (is actually 99.6 gallons "had to do the math") gives them a more comfortable living space (you can make them as "long" as you want if you have the space for it), hence a happier dragon. Happier dragon means a less stressed dragon and less stress on the slaves.

 

[CooperDragon]

I agree that it's opinion based on experience and discussion. The "standards" (probably recommendation is a better term) are changing regularly. As we observe how our dragons interact and handle things from housing to lighting, we can report to eachother and discuss improvements to make everything a bit better as time goes on. As far as enclosure size goes, I started with a 20g and moved to an Exo Terra 36x18x18'' and considered it a palace at the time. I could barely fit it in the trunk of my car. Now years later I've seen three dragons interact with it and while it is suitable (I can get an excellent UVB and temperature gradient with it and the front doors are great) I wish I had a larger space for my guy when I'm not home. He runs around the house with so much energy it seems quite rough to keep him in such a small space for an extended period of time. This is isolated data but when I discuss it with others and combine with their experience it seems like the "new" minimum is the 4'x2'x2' and even then I like to recommend more space if possible. While they are sometimes quite stationary as they bask, several of us have observed them moving around the whole tank over the course of the day, leading us to believe the more variety you can provide, the better. This kind of discussion and change happens with diet & supplements, lighting, outside time, travel, medical treatment, and many other areas. That is the great strength of this forum as far as I'm concerned. Our combined experience can make lives better for our dragons as we learn more and evolve rather than rely on a single, set recommendation.

 

[Gormagon]

That is by far "the best way I have seen it explained to this date", great post CooperDragon!

 

[Taterbug]

After researching online and talking to other beardie owners back then it seemed that 40gal was sufficient for adult bearded dragons.

I build my first cage in 2011 or 2012 and I am not even sure why I chose the 4x2x2; I think if I did a lot of research today I'd come out with the conclusion that a 40g is ok because sites like this and others still promote it in their care information. Honestly I think 40g are recommended because they are easy to get a hold of and are one of the larger sizes with front opening doors.

Its mainly US standards that imply 40g is big enough. Near as I can figure it was developed along the very rudimentary standard of 2x the lizard long, 1x the lizard tall and 1x the lizard wide. It may seem large as a bit of furniture, but as the only place a critter gets to live it's very small. This sort of "forumula" for habitat size is a out dated now, and where used is much more generous now.

Habitat design wise, consider that the basking area should be at least as big as the dragons body, similarly the cool area should be the size of the dragons body.... its going to be very hard to get a nice range of temperatures in between that in a small space. Reptiles in general get sort of screwed on habitat space, which can lead to all sorts of health consequences down the road. Digestion, fitness, healthy weight, and emotional/psychological health all benefit from space and enrichment. It is a bit uncomfortable to describe it this way, but enclosures/cages are just that; its where we basically keep our critters trapped and its up to us to provide them with the resources to stay happy and healthy. A inadequate enclosure size can't really be made up with 'roaming' time unless you take the measures to ensure heat and UV needs are still being met adequately. Most homes are not warm enough for it to be safe for a beardie to be free to wander about.

Well, here's the thing:
Yes, technically a beardie can live in a 40gal for its whole life.
But then again, you can live in a closet for your whole life, too. But obviously that wouldn't be a good life. Really, a 4x2x2 should be standard, not 40gal. Most people simply don't think that they need all that space, as they aren't super hyper-active creatures, but that's not true.
Just my 2¢

Here is an example I like to share. This is a typical day for Pepper, via timelapse. this enclosure is 4x2x4 and he uses all of it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RaR_1gslG2w

A 40gl breeder is the minimum requirement for an adult dragon. The 120 mentioned is a 2'x 2'x 4' that (is actually 99.6 gallons "had to do the math") gives them a more comfortable living space (you can make them as "long" as you want if you have the space for it), hence a happier dragon. Happier dragon means a less stressed dragon and less stress on the slaves.

In US units 4x2x2 is ~120g (1cuft =~7.5g; 16cu ft = 119.7g)

 

[Gormagon]

After researching online and talking to other beardie owners back then it seemed that 40gal was sufficient for adult bearded dragons.

I build my first cage in 2011 or 2012 and I am not even sure why I chose the 4x2x2; I think if I did a lot of research today I'd come out with the conclusion that a 40g is ok because sites like this and others still promote it in their care information. Honestly I think 40g are recommended because they are easy to get a hold of and are one of the larger sizes with front opening doors.

Its mainly US standards that imply 40g is big enough. Near as I can figure it was developed along the very rudimentary standard of 2x the lizard long, 1x the lizard tall and 1x the lizard wide. It may seem large as a bit of furniture, but as the only place a critter gets to live it's very small. This sort of "forumula" for habitat size is a out dated now, and where used is much more generous now.

Habitat design wise, consider that the basking area should be at least as big as the dragons body, similarly the cool area should be the size of the dragons body.... its going to be very hard to get a nice range of temperatures in between that in a small space. Reptiles in general get sort of screwed on habitat space, which can lead to all sorts of health consequences down the road. Digestion, fitness, healthy weight, and emotional/psychological health all benefit from space and enrichment. It is a bit uncomfortable to describe it this way, but enclosures/cages are just that; its where we basically keep our critters trapped and its up to us to provide them with the resources to stay happy and healthy. A inadequate enclosure size can't really be made up with 'roaming' time unless you take the measures to ensure heat and UV needs are still being met adequately. Most homes are not warm enough for it to be safe for a beardie to be free to wander about.

Well, here's the thing:
Yes, technically a beardie can live in a 40gal for its whole life.
But then again, you can live in a closet for your whole life, too. But obviously that wouldn't be a good life. Really, a 4x2x2 should be standard, not 40gal. Most people simply don't think that they need all that space, as they aren't super hyper-active creatures, but that's not true.
Just my 2¢

Here is an example I like to share. This is a typical day for Pepper, via timelapse. this enclosure is 4x2x4 and he uses all of it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RaR_1gslG2w

A 40gl breeder is the minimum requirement for an adult dragon. The 120 mentioned is a 2'x 2'x 4' that (is actually 99.6 gallons "had to do the math") gives them a more comfortable living space (you can make them as "long" as you want if you have the space for it), hence a happier dragon. Happier dragon means a less stressed dragon and less stress on the slaves.

In US units 4x2x2 is ~120g (1cuft =~7.5g; 16cu ft = 119.7g)

I took a look at my converter and it is in (imp) gallons, my bad, lol!