what sand and other substrates are great for beardies

[kirby]

And i know that your dragon would climb back into it's cage after being out and about in your house mine does that. But you have to wonder would it still do the same if you opened the cage in the middle of the outback?

i beleive mine would, they get natural sun as much as possible, and the 'wild, wild world' that is my backyard, scares them a bit. they run back inside, down the hall to my room. they cant get in quick enough.

i dont think our captive animals would do well in the outback, wouldnt last long IMO

so what is that sand your using? like botany or river sand? (pretty much playsand)

 

[kirby]

P.s. Australia wide red sand is sold to most if not any reptile. unfortunately.

i work in a store and the rep tries to get us to sell it to gecko's, snakes, beardies, monitors.. you name it. not to mention a load of other crap they try to get us to buy.

 

[leothebeardie]

All you people think you know what your talking about, some of you i agree with. But i have kept bearded dragons on sifted playsand for over 15 years. I have now bought a new baby and will be buying a partner for him/her. I use paper towell or something like that til they are about 6 months old, then on one half of my viv (my viv is 4ft long) i use sifted play sand on the other 2ft i use sandstone. I feed him on the sandstone because it is safer. But i get my beardie's checked by a reptile specialist and what im doing is absalutely fine and this makes it as realistic as possible for your beardie without creating a big risk, I have had 4 beardies in my life and have all lived long without impaction or anything like that.. But we all have our own opinions, so people that disagree with me dont bother creating an argument im just giving my advice.. !!! :mrgreen:
Ohh also i dont recomend taking your beardie to a specalist unless its an emergency because it costs alot of money, i only took mine because i bought it and it had signs of metabolic bone disease

 

[kirby]

leo, there are many things that worry me in your statment, all of which clearly showing that experience isn't knowledge.

 

[RedInkAus]

P.s. Australia wide red sand is sold to most if not any reptile. unfortunately.

i work in a store and the rep tries to get us to sell it to gecko's, snakes, beardies, monitors.. you name it. not to mention a load of other crap they try to get us to buy.

That's my point exactly, I don't think you give enough credit to other people to know what they are doing. Like you said they try to get you to sell it to everybody, which is fair enough it's a bussiness and that's what your meant to do. Now if you try and sell that to an (and again i reapeat) "Australlian who knows the difference" i don't think they would buy it. Please don't assume that i don't know. I personally have seen their natural substrate and i know what it consist of, what it looks like and what it feels like. Nowhere in the vast Australian outback would you find tiles, I thought you might know that being Australian yourself.

I am not as conceited to think that i know better than millions of years of evolution. If their natural enviroment was so bad for them they would have been extinct already. Yet these animals thrive and survive in it, their not even a threathened species.

I know people are trying to keep their beardies safe by using tiles, I just use Australian sand personally and again i repeat myself "because i am one of a very few handful of people in this forum that can re-create their natural environment seeing as I'm in Australia".

If you want to use tiles fair enough if you want to use sand that's fine as well. I personally don't try to change peoples minds and assume that they don't know what their doing. I'm not that pretentious, so mate "get off the high horse".

 

[sparticus]

Hi Redinkaus I still think we should still send the partition in to tile the outback. Not only will the tile suppliers sign it Kirby will as well cause he's right and know one else is entitled to their opinion without been told there stupid and they know nothing.

 

[MALIBUSMOM]

Just curious as to how old you are "LEO".Also how old was your oldest beardie when it passed????

 

[kirby]

I am not as conceited to think that i know better than millions of years of evolution. If their natural enviroment was so bad for them they would have been extinct already. Yet these animals thrive and survive in it, their not even a threathened species.

I know people are trying to keep their beardies safe by using tiles, I just use Australian sand personally and again i repeat myself "because i am one of a very few handful of people in this forum that can re-create their natural environment seeing as I'm in Australia".

If you want to use tiles fair enough if you want to use sand that's fine as well. I personally don't try to change peoples minds and assume that they don't know what their doing. I'm not that pretentious, so mate "get off the high horse".

alright, i can tell your getting angry or annoyed, when there isnt a need to.

i will comment on each of these points.

1. they did evolve to counter act the harsh and demanding environment, they reproduce in extremely large amounts. 80-100+ a season. BECAUSE they DIE.

2. you said yourself, you dont use there natural sand, you use sands from a different area.

3. i try to educate and counter challenge a point of view, offering a wider understanding. eg. what im doing now, im counter balancing and offering a different opinion or answer to your statements and queries. this happens alot on forums, although its often seen as an argument. im not on a high horse, i simple like a dual and challenge, love discussion, research and debates. im not pretentious. that would falsifying and exaggerate an unnecessary point. my points are valid, substantial and effective on there own... im sorry you see me that way.

why in the world i didn't joint he debate team back in school, only God knows.

 

[RedInkAus]

2. you said yourself, you dont use there natural sand, you use sands from a different area.

Here ya go mate.

Aha, I think that may be the difference, the sand i get is not the red dunes sand you speak of rather the yellowish Malle sand from Northern Vic and SA. I do know that the red sand sold in most pet stores in Aus is dune sand, but mate you have to give a bit more credit to people that actually live here' like yourself that they will know the difference. that.

Now as far as I know about studies done on bearded dragons here in Australia the natural colour morphs denotes where the dragon is endemically from. Would you not agree on this since we don't have the fancy clour morphs found in the states? Now given that you should also know that dragons ARE found in the Simpson as well as the MALLEE regions of Victoria and SA. If you had bothered to read the post properly you would have seen this. By the way i have a yellow morph that's how serious i take the matter of creating a natural envirorment for them.

I'm all for a debate and discussion mate, but in order for that to happen both parties must listen to each other don't you think?

 

[kirby]

we DO have 'fancy colour morphs' we just don't name them long line names.

were do you get your sand from? and how do you know were it comes from? i dont see hardware stores purposefully getting sand from specific desert reasons for gardening, this would do a negetive to a garden. rather Picses brand Calci-sand is Imported from africa, and flower power dont stock desert sands, rather river, botanic and beach.

 

[RedInkAus]

Melbourne reptile warehouse I have about 60kgs left of Mallee sand i purchased from them before they closed down. I also have a friend who's a truckie that would grab a sackfull of sand from the Mallee for me when he passes through in exchange for a slab. I don't purchase from Bunnings or garden suppliers if that's what you mean. Although there is a place in Melbourne (Heidelberg, that quaries sand from these regions to mix into a product that they sell) so this is where i get my supplies from. Various places and NEVER dune sand. There is a place in Hoppers Crossing (Western Subs of Melbourne) that sells red sand that clumps up like Simpson desert sand "Animal Attractions". And i REPEAT i DO NOT use red dune sand.

And at again "I KNOW THE DIFFERENCE, I HAVE BEEN THERE"

 

[kirby]

Melbourne reptile warehouse I have about 60kgs left of Mallee sand i purchased from them before they closed down. I also have a friend who's a truckie that would grab a sackfull of sand from the Mallee for me when he passes through in exchange for a slab. I don't purchase from Bunnings or garden suppliers if that's what you mean. Although there is a place in Melbourne (Heidelberg, that quaries sand from these regions to mix into a product that they sell) so this is where i get my supplies from. Various places and NEVER dune sand. There is a place in Hoppers Crossing (Western Subs of Melbourne) that sells red sand that clumps up like Simpson desert sand "Animal Attractions". And i REPEAT i DO NOT use red dune sand.

And at again "I KNOW THE DIFFERENCE, I HAVE BEEN THERE"

Awsome, i can see how you'd want to re-create a 'totally naturalistic' enironment, but i would like to keep it natural, yet safe. keep in mind one huge reason that the natural soils clump is not only clay, but also calcium based sands. naturally occuring, yet still just as dangerous. this is why the red dune sand hardens, be careful with your malle sand, im not sure but it could be one of the many areas of naturally occuring calcium sands (keep in mind all those silly billy's reading that this natural calcium based soil is only one part, there are MANY others in the natural concoction, including soils, clay and plant matter, rocks etc. ) but worth a thought. i would ask your trucky freind, for hard soil clay areas. as this is were they would prefer, not a sandy area on the side of a highway.

would i be wrong to assume that the quarie is producing concrete?

on this site, you have to remember that 99+% of the members aren't from australia, so cant get natural soil, or anything similar. so recommending sand in general isn't useful to these members.

thank god you can deal with a debate, rather then running off squeeling!! thanks for the information/responces.

unfortunately most keepers DO think that the red dune sand, (hence a huge reason AA sells it, then again, i stupidly bought it several years ago) ... they think it is both entirely natural and safe. the Zoo's and Wildlife parks use them as well, purely to support an unrealistic idolized 'desert scene'. its upsetting that Zoo's of all corporations see there animals as replacable, when representing a false yet popular image. enough blah.

 

[fresnowitte]

on this site, you have to remember that 99+% of the members aren't from australia, so cant get natural soil, or anything similar. so recommending sand in general isn't useful to these members.

Very good point Kirby! :wink:

I know that this next question is off topic so I'll apologize ahead of time. Sorry OP!

Kirby what is the life expectancy of a bearded dragon in the wild verses in captivity?

 

[kirby]

Barbara,

its extremely hard to answer that question with an entirely accurate answer. considering its so hard to study/follow wild dragons.

considering their fast reductive nature, hardiness in conjunction with the harsh environment, human interaction (roads/feral cats/introduced species) and preditors, and their natural behavior and evolutionary defense (beard, blacken, flare, hiss)... the VERY few who make it to reproduction stage (~2 yrs of age) (technically we only need 1-2% survival) very few again would make it to the second season. there are ALOT of preditors who can prey on hatchlings and juveniles, and there is still birds, monitors, snakes and mammals large enough to prey on adults. they learnt there defence for a reason, as its mostly effective. but even still... a hungry preditor, is a hungry preditor.

 

[RedInkAus]

Cheers Kirby,

I do apologise that this did get a bit carried away, Yes the place in Heidelberg does make concrete product, the sand is used in making those hard hollow concrete blocks but i don't buy from them that often only in desperation and even then only if it's more than month away for till i can get my supplies.

I should clarify though that before i put the substrate in it goes through a cleaning and shifting process that i do. I put the sand through a sieve to remove all dead plant materials and is then washed for a couple of days before i actually bake the sand in the oven. I say Mallee sand due to it's rough texture but it is actually more clay based, once every two months i do a total tank clean and i often have to use a scraper for the bottom of the tank because it's clump that hard onto it. The sand is replaced once a month as well, which doing this routine gives me enough time to gather supplies from my truckie friend. I do not throw out the used sand (well most of the top layer collected from the tank i throw out) rather i have a big container in the back yard which i put it in to recycle it. I leave it there for a couple of months under the sun to bake and remove impurities i find it gives enough time for it to go back to it's natural state, but again before any sand goes into the tank i put it through the cleaning process.

I would never recommend to anyone to use sand, I simply always state that i use it. I don't recommend it purely for the fact that on these forums hardly anyone is actually Australian therefore can't get natural substrates from Australia for one. Two, i don't think anyone would go through the trouble of doing all the work to make sure the sand is as safe as it could be and sterile. LOL so much work just to keep the tank loooking natural, i don't know any one else that would be crazy enough to do it. I do recommend for people to stick to a solid substrate if they don't have the time or dedication to properly use particle substrates.