what sand and other substrates are great for beardies

[kirby]

LOL. 'where the blooody inappropriate word removed by moderator are ya?'

RedInAus, i feel that tile is more suitable and alike then playsand, purely because its solid, like the hard packed and clay baked soils, and because its safer.

when you try to mix clay, sands and soil to mimic the soils, its often hard, and too difficult to maintain humidity, and heat, as well as cleanliness within an enclosure. tile is ideal in a captive environment, its similar to the natural soils, its entirely clean and safe, and has the ability to be kept santitary. after all in a captive environment we should be trying to keep them safe, happy and healthy. not a center piece or something to look at.

to tell the truth, parts of their natural soils do hold calcium based sands, this helps keep the soil stiff (and crumble in your hand) although their is ALOT of other 'ingrediants' the calci sad you buy at the store, isnt the stuff anyway. keep in mind their isnt a vet in the wild to do surgery on them, when they suffer impaction, they die.

 

[fresnowitte]

I have one more thought that other's might want to ponder for a moment. :idea:
Remember our pets are living in captivity not in the wild. Keeping this in mind............................. :wink:
In the wild the beardies can run away from the area in which they just pooped where in captivity they can not.
An it is impossible to remove ever bacterial piece from the particals without changing the entire substrate.

I know that with my beardies they do not like to poop in their viv's. When they do they will always run to the other end, as far away from their poo as they can get. Mmmmmmmmm..........so to me they are saying they do not like to sit in it. And they are smarter than you think.

Some people may be more experienced than others in caring for beardies. For those who are not do yourself a favor and..............just keep it simple. That's what I do. :roll:

I am guilty of using partical substrates in the past. But what I can tell you from my experience is that I have not had any let me say that again ANY..........reocurrances of parasites sense I switch to none partical substrate.
So I hope that you can see my point of view. Vets and med's aren't cheap!

Bottom line is it's your choice..........what would you rather do?
Pay for lots of nasty sand to dispose of and vet bill or..................not.
Go with non partical. :wink:

On top of that when I made the switch...my beardies got buff. No more sinking in the sand.
Have you ever tried to walk in the sand?

 

[Ashleabdlover]

yeah thats part of the point that i was making before.
its totally different, because our dragons ARE in captivity, not in the wild.
because we have the power to, we should look out for our beardies.
just because they, the ones in wild, deal with sand, doesnt mean we have to make ours.
you dont know how many have actually died of impaction out in the wild?
you just dont know. its obviously not big enough of a number to bring them to extinction, but it really does happen.


now you have to remember, everyone on here loves their beardies, and wants the best for them, in my opinion, to play it safe, in all cases, using tile/ reptile carpet/ paper towels, etc is the best way to go.

there is always a risk with sand. there is absolutely NO risk with tile.

and it takes the exact same amount of time/ effort to do both.


just play it safe.

 

[fresnowitte]

just play it safe.

:wink: We need a thumbs up or clapping hands smilie! :mrgreen:

 

[kirby]

just play it safe.

:wink: We need a thumbs up or clapping hands smilie! :mrgreen:

i always thought this one was cool... :bikerwave: lol

 

[kirby]

LOL. 'where the blooody inappropriate word removed by moderator are ya?'

LOL and for that very reason our tourism campaign was flawed.

believe it or not that was our tourism national slogan.

 

[Ashleabdlover]

haha you guys are funny as frick :mrgreen:

 

[RedInkAus]

LOL. 'where the blooody inappropriate word removed by moderator are ya?'

RedInAus, i feel that tile is more suitable and alike then playsand, purely because its solid, like the hard packed and clay baked soils, and because its safer.

when you try to mix clay, sands and soil to mimic the soils, its often hard, and too difficult to maintain humidity, and heat, as well as cleanliness within an enclosure. tile is ideal in a captive environment, its similar to the natural soils, its entirely clean and safe, and has the ability to be kept santitary. after all in a captive environment we should be trying to keep them safe, happy and healthy. not a center piece or something to look at.

to tell the truth, parts of their natural soils do hold calcium based sands, this helps keep the soil stiff (and crumble in your hand) although their is ALOT of other 'ingrediants' the calci sad you buy at the store, isnt the stuff anyway. keep in mind their isnt a vet in the wild to do surgery on them, when they suffer impaction, they die.

I'm not trying to convince anyone to switch to sand, I just personally use it, seeing you and me are a couple of a handful of people in this forum that can actually get their natural substrate.

 

[kirby]

RedInkAus

True, although, i would rather eliminate the risk of impaction etc. in my captive enclosures. i didnt get them to keep them like a wild dragon, rather as a pet, a loved pet who deserves a healthy, safe and happy life.

 

[RedInkAus]

G'day Kirby,

I think that's were i differ from most keepers. The bearded dragon did not choose to be my pet, I choose it to be mine. Therefore in my reasoning (mine only) It is my pet but to them I'm their captor. Now since i have them, in my point of view i should keep their envirorment as natural as i can because if there was not glass all around it, it would probably not choose to live on tiles. It stays in the tank because i keep it there not because it chooses, therefore in it's confined space i figure my not make it feel as much as like its natural home as i can. Herps are not like cats and dogs IMO, they are not our pets rather we are their keepers. And like i said Kirby mate you and i can actually get natural Australian substrates for these creatures so why not? I understand that tiles is safer and there is no chance of impaction, but my point is not too prolong the animals life for my own purposes (not that i don't give them the best care that i can) but to share their lives with them while their trap in that box, why not make it as natural for them as possible rather than creating an artificial world to placate our own agendas and issues with a certain item in their envirorment. It's not just about keeping an animal physically happy but mentally as well.

I'm not saying the way other people do things is wrong rather just justifying my reasons why i choose "real Australian sand"

 

[kirby]

i feel the tile is more natural then sand. sands 'positives' arent so.

my dragons enjoy their vivarium. they will happily walk back in, and they feel comfortable and calm within them.

safe, secure, happy and healthy.

 

[RedInkAus]

i feel the tile is more natural then sand. sands 'positives' arent so.

Sorry mate, I'm not arguing rather just a bit confused. How can tiles be more natural for them than the outback sand that we can get in Australia?

I'm not trying to argue the positives of sand VS tiles, i just simply use "Australian sand" instead of tiles.

 

[kirby]

i feel the tile is more natural then sand. sands 'positives' arent so.

Sorry mate, I'm not arguing rather just a bit confused. How can tiles be more natural for them than the outback sand that we can get in Australia?

I'm not trying to argue the positives of sand VS tiles, i just simply use "Australian sand" instead of tiles.

the red sand you buy from a pet store is red sand from dune areas. it is calcium based and carries all the risks that calci-sand does. this isnt the same stuff as the populated clay and hard soiled areas of the outback, rather heavy sand and duned areas. this isnt a prefered soil, it doesnt hold a significant durrow, their feet sink and it isnt clean, or safe in a captive environment.

tile, in conjunction with a suitably sized hide, serves well for all their natural behaviour. digging and burrow making is to make a suitable area to sleep or escape heat. if one is already provided, there is no need to dig one. an artificial lay box is given for gravid females of course. if you choose the right tile, it has traction and extremely similar to hard baked areas.

if you want to mimic a sand dune, go ahead. unfortunately theres a serious of risk you carry with that decision. if something goes wrong, its your fault, not the sands.

 

[jscott]

just a thought;

when i first brought home Mayze and Trouble they were on sand. they absolutely hated it, they spent as little time on the sand as possible. they only came down from their log to go to the bathroom or eat.

then i switched them to towell. they immediately started coming down off the log more to explore their tank. they started using the cool side more for regulating heat.

now ive moved up to tile and they seem very happy. at first it was 1/2 tile and 1/2 towell, and they seemed to like both sides equally. they especially loved to sleep on the towell. well i changed to towelled section to a smalled carpeted section and still no complaints.

my female dragon likes to explore so sometimes i let her out to run around the house. after about 20-30 minutes she gets home sick and finds her way back through my house to my bedroom where their cage is. i know she loves her cage because she starts glass dancing from the outside trying to get back in.

i just wanted people to know that i havent always had this stance on partical substrates(i flip-flopped :mrgreen: ). look back into my first posts in LGs thread, i tried sand, coconut fiber and smooth stones. well LG is a definite licker and i didnt want him swallowing anything he shouldnt so i moved to towell(just like with mayze and trouble). the towell was good but got dirty easily and since i was going for a MORE hygenic substrate i felt it wasnt right for him. now hes on tile too and loving it. he doesnt have any legs so gripping the ground is especially tough for him. if i were to use sand in his enclosure now that hes bigger and heavier, he would probably end up making a "sand angel" instead of getting traction :roll: .


p.s. and on the sand versus tile thing right now:

if sand impaction is know to dramatically shorten the lifespan of a dragon in the wild, why try to replicate those conditions? im sure in the wild they eat questionable foods all the time(tiny boney animals that can lodge in their intestine, sticks, thorns), so should we be feeding them mice, small lizards and questionable plant matter to recreate that? i try to give my dragons everything they should have and nothing they shouldnt.

i also agree with kirbys statement: if you give them a nice hide they wont feel the need to seek one out or create one. before i put a stone cave in my cage, mayze and trouble would struggle to find a seculded place; clawing at the corners of the cage, trying to jump out. now that they have a spacious cave i never see them trying to find a hiding place.

 

[RedInkAus]

Aha, I think that may be the difference, the sand i get is not the red dunes sand you speak of rather the yellowish Malle sand from Northern Vic and SA. I do know that the red sand sold in most pet stores in Aus is dune sand, but mate you have to give a bit more credit to people that actually live here' like yourself that they will know the difference. I'm not knew to beardies and have kept them for ten years now along with my friends, like i said I've even driven through the Nallubor and physically touched the sand there. There are suppliers of Simpson desert sand here in Vic as well as sand collected from the Mallee, not all sand sold in pet stores is dune sand, besides the dune sand trade is designed for gecko keepers here in Aus and most serious herp keepers in Aus would know that.

I am not questioning the health and safety of your dragons I'm sure you take excellent care of them. It's just a difference of opinion i think.

And i know that your dragon would climb back into it's cage after being out and about in your house mine does that. But you have to wonder would it still do the same if you opened the cage in the middle of the outback?