We haven't seen any feces yet? New baby beardie...

[WolfMama]

Hey! Srry u were sick last week

Thank you Still not feeling right. But better then the other day

Yea pet stores will sell you the smallest tanks they can then when you go to get another they sell you the next size up and do it over and over again...Its how they make money.. And yes LOTS of beardies (and other animals too) end up stuck in tanks way too small for them...As for reporting them, ha! you can try..

LOL. I know you are right. There was a person called "rat boy" by Times Square. He had live rats. They looked TERRIBLE. He was using them to pan handle. You can take pics with him. The rats looked in poor health, they looked either drugged or exhausted. They were NOT healthy rats! One was dyed. They just laid there with their heads down. They looked fake, until you got up close and saw they were real. When I called the ASPCA the woman was sarcastic and obnoxious! I asked for her supervisor who was much nicer. He said they'd look into it, but they were bound by certain laws and unless the animals were being visibly abused or very sick, there wasn't anything they could do about it. There were no regulations for exhausting an animal by keeping it out all day and/or not feeding it appropriately, nor any laws about drugging them. :? :? :?

But Ill tell you I spent about 2 weeks raging WAR against a local pet store that had HORRIBLE conditions and animals being neglected..I contacted EVERY ONE! Every authority u can think of! No one would do anything Basically all you can do is NOT shop there and give them ur money, and let others know not to.

That's just wrong. So sad Won't change until people stop viewing them as "objects." I refuse to refer to any critter as "it" even though that is "grammatically correct." it subconsciously gets into the heads of children and people by teaching them to write in that manner. I wish more people would break that grammatical "rule." It's a small step, but a step.

In our state they still allow steel jaw traps. I want to find out how to get them outlawed. "Pest" control people are allowed to use them, we found out last year. Sickening. A neighbor had a racoon trapped in one It was sickening and so very cruel! I called the ASPCA. I admit they did try to show up, but went to the wrong address It was out of their jurisdiction, as it's not illegal, but the person I got on the phone had compassion and was willing to go and try to confiscate the raccoon.

I had moved some pics into an album and messed up that thread Ive since fixed it, let me know if you still cant pull it up, and Ill try to fix it again.

Oh good I’m going to go and check it out later today. Looking forward to seeing the pics!

Ive heard of ppl using alfalfa pellets and putting them in like a shoebox container and putting it in the viv for their beardies to dig in, but thats with bigger dragons, but I dont imagine it would hurt a baby? Theres nothing enticing that would make a beardie want to eat it... But be careful it doesnt get wet and mold cause that could be VERY bad.They dont "have" to have something to dig in (unless u have an adult female that needs to lay eggs) but thats a whole dif thing. I believe Austrailia has CLAY not sand. And clay, IDK if u have it up there, but we do here, It is hard as a rock when dry, so Id imagine they couldnt rlly ingest much off the surface anyways.

Oh that makes sense! I couldn’t understand why sand (except maybe from generations of being domesticated) would be bad if they were in a desert that had sand. I admit, I was looking forward to a sand substrate. Too bad there isn’t an alternative. Hmmm? I wonder if anyone has ever used clay I can’t say there isn’t any clay soil anywhere in NY, but as far as where I live, I’ve never seen it. We have loamy soil, sand, and gravel.

You are looking at someone who wanted to give our guinea pigs a packed dirt substrate We had problems with types of substrates they sell for guinea pigs. One day I decided to grow grass in their hutch (indoor hutch) and made a bed of it. THEY LOVED IT! They wanted to lay in it all the time! I was trying to figure out how to get a safe soil and make it compact with grass to bed them on

While he is a baby, I’ll stick with the carpet (or similar). I don’t want to take any chances, as I understand they are far more delicate at this age. But, if it is safe, I’d like to find something more natural. I’ll look into the alfalfa pellets in a container for when he is older (and we have a larger viv). I’ll wait till he is older, just to be safe.

You can let your beardie get down to 65 at night and him be fine... Id float around 70 tho, he does need a cool down period at night, so dont let it get too hot. I think they are all grumpy in the morning! lol. Mine def give me a stink eye in the mornings...

LOL! He seems to like having the lights turned back on. I figured he can’t get going until it warms up. He just looks so unhappy, and… druggy. LOL. He does seem to like the 75 degrees at night, better then when it dropped down to 70. I have the CHE set for 78, but it seems to keep it at more of 75. Is that an okay temp? I think he prefers it a bit better.

YES atm mine are together, their new 4x2x2 has a divider and they will be moving into it within a few days...again if those pics dont pull up let me know... youll see the divider. I know the risk and trust me I plan on separating them...Im still going to bathe them together and make sure they see eachother daily, they are sisters after all, lol.

I was just curious I’ve spoken with some people who have kept theirs housed together successfully. They say the key is to keep them well fed, and there won’t be any problems. I know they’ve done this very successfully. Sometimes I wonder if he’s lonely I did post a question of 1 or 2, and the reply did concern me so that I am afraid to house 2 together now.

He gets lots of attention. He seems to want to be out more then in his viv. I felt so badly when I was sick. He laid on the log near the front of the glass watching me when I walked past (I did talk to him ). I wanted to pick him up, but didn’t feel good. I was sleeping most of the day. As soon as hubby and son came home that night, I asked them to give him attention. Apparently, he was getting stress marks which went immediately away once they picked him up. I felt SO bad!

But, I don’t know if he’s a male or female, yet. And, I DO know that he seemed to be very happy out of the pet shop viv where was literally trampled on by the other bearded dragons. When we brought him home and put him in his new set up viv, he stood on the rock cave that he never was able to stand on top of in the store (same rock cave), because the others would chase him off. He stood there with his head high, standing so tall, like I’d never seen him before! He really seemed so happy and content, and … well, proud (if that makes any sense). Like he was king (or Queen, since we don’t know yet) of the hill

It’s very nice you will set it up so they can still see each other We were going to get one of his siblings. He was the one we were becoming attached to, and there was one from his brood we were going to adopt with him, as they seemed to get along nicely, but he had his tail bit and was adopted by the vet (or so I was told). Several days later all of his siblings were gone, and he was left, and his tail was nipped by the newer bearded dragons

At any rate, I was just curious about the housing situation you had, and how it was working out Thanks for explaining

I used that reptile carpet for about 2 days and said screw this, so idk how to keep it down, that was my problem too... I went and bought some vinyl flooring and have it taped down atm, their new viv has a tile floor.

LOL. Okay, so it’s not just us. LOL. How is the vinyl flooring? I thought that might be too slippery? Or did you get one with some type of grooving in it? When I put him on a smoother surface, he doesn’t seem to like it. Maybe it’s because he’s still so small?

Yea crix only is total BS. Theres no too much outside the viv... just if he starts to get cold put him back to warm up, and make sure he gets at least 2 hrs b4 and after he eats to digest.

Yup, we’re doing that. Good to know, as he really seems to like being out, and we can keep him out for a couple of hours at a time. Usually 1/2 to an hour, and then again later on. But, at times, for a couple of hours. We just have to watch him carefully as he likes to leap out of our hands, and leap off of us when we are sitting down. One day he scared me, because, as I took him out of his viv, he lept out of my hand and onto the floor! His viv is high up. I was yelling, because I couldn’t find him at first! Too many hiding spots for one so small! Turned out he landed on a shelf. Thank God he was okay! He did it so fast!

IF a roach gets out..IF cause they are very bad climbers, but IF it happens, they cannot breed without heat.. So u WILL NOT become over run with them. You HAVE to provide them heat in the tub (keep it around 90-95-ish) in order for them to reproduce, you can use a regular human heating pad, just get one that doesnt have an automatic shut off.. or get a reptile heating pad and tap it to the side of the tub. IF one gets out it will not automatically die... but it wont have babies, and most likely youll find it. Id imagine if your too worried you could lay a roach trap out by the tub or some sticky paper incase u drop one.

As long as it can’t breed, or get into my food pantries, I’m not worried. One of our cats will likely find it. LOL. They catch the crickets before I do (if I can catch the crickets first, I grab them and set them free – oh, I’m referring to native crickets, not feeder – because our one kitty has a tendency to torture the poor things and leave them ½ dead. I hate that.

I’ll look into the reptile heating pads. Leaving a human one on 24/7 worries me. I’ll have to look more into it. Right now, $ is tight (we didn’t expect to have to replace so much. PetSmart is really on my do not shop at list ATM.).

I definitely want to look into the roaches. I’ve taken your advice and make sure I leave some greens in the viv in case of a rogue cricket But, I’m still checking it out thouroughly at night. I think I’ll feel better with the roaches knowing they don’t bite.

IDK if those were friut flies or nats or what, but Im sure it wouldnt hurt ur beardie. As far as I know only fly flies (lightening bugs) and some bug that looks like a stink bug are deadly to beardies. I cant remember the name of it..ugh.

Well, we’re not buying from that shop any longer. The smaller store that we found that we prefer to patronize was closed and we needed crickets. So we went to PetCo. Store was clean enough, but apparently their crickets came with some small bug (gnat or fruitfly, I don’t know which. LOL). It’s a relief to know that it won’t hurt him, should he eat it. I was very concerned about that.

That’s my biggest concern (outside bugs) about taking him outside. It’s too cool here, now, but I’d like to come late spring (we’ll be in the 60s or below till then. We may get an occasional day in the 70s, but rare). LOL, If he could eat outside bugs, when he gets bigger, we have a colony of crickets that grows in our yard. He’d have a field day. LOL> I know it’s not safe to feed them to him We don’t use any pesticides or herbicides in our backyard. Lightening bugs only come out at dusk as far as I know of. So, I don’t think they should be a problem during the day. But what of all the others in the grass and that fly by (mosquitoes, flies, ants, etc.)

IDK about the falling asleep in the bath! lol. Just be careful I guess. As far as temp all I know is the same as ud bathe a human baby, so luke warm.

LOL. Yup. He did it again last night. LOL. I’m so cautious, I used to use a thermoment in the tub for my son when he was a baby and toddler I put it at average human temperature at 98.6. That’s about what I did the first time, then lowered it to 95. I’ll just make sure it’s between 95 to 99 then. I’m using an old fish tank thermometer to be on the safe side.

Check out the pic below. He started out standing in the water, this time. Then went limp. I had to hold him up. LOL. And, yes, he fell asleep again. Bathed him for about 10 minutes (sorry, they came out blurry)...

Oh, question: I cannot find a definitive on what is considered proper humidity. Now I’m reading they do need some humidity – I’m getting seriously confused on this note. First, when we got him, pet store told us we needed keep his viv humid. Then, I read NO, because they are, after all, desert animals, and too much humidity can cause an URI. Now, some have said 60% is too high. I’ve looked all over at various sites and the few that do mention humidity temps say it should be between 40% to 60%? But somewhere here I was told that was too high. Most sites just say to not let it get too high, or too low, but they don’t give any parameters whatsoever. What should the humidity be for a bearded dragon’s viv?

Thanks!

 

[vampy]

Aww, what a cutie.

I'm not sure how true this is, but everything I've read says to keep the humidity below 40%. I don't actually measure mine as I don't keep a water bowl in the viv and england really isn't a humid place!

 

[Onlymediocre]

I believe its 20%-40% on the humidity.

Its just so stupid to me that there ARE laws on the books against animal cruelty, but theres no one to enforce them!! Oh it makes me SOOOO mad! I had posted on here about what was going on in this store... I was SO freaking upset. I think I title it "who do I report this abuse to?" Oh I was at war. The hubby still thinks next time we can get up that way without the kids we should go in and "act" like were talking on the phone but rlly have it video recording.. then our local fox channel does a fox 6 on ur side thing, and he wants to send the footage to them and see if we can get them some negative publicity on the news. I mean its HORRIBLE there! ARGH!!

I dont think its so much a labeling animals an "it" thing. Its if its not a cat or dog (mostly a dog) then they dont care type thing. I didnt even make it back to look at the furry pets, we walked out way b4 that! I even contacted the local humane society, and guess what they didnt even take the time to call or email me back! Maybe I should call and say they were torturing a puppy and laughing about it! then they might care! (*NOTE- I have absolutely NOTHING against cats or dogs, I owned both) It just makes me angry.

Be glad you dont have clay...I grew up in south florida theres no clay there, but here..oh its a pain, its hard as a freaking rock if you ever have to dig in it and its dry, and when it gets wet its just a slippery mess, gets everywhere, roads wash out...clay sux. I dont see a problem with the alfalfa pellets when he/she gets older.. I intend on using them when mine get older.

Id say 75 is fine, kinda like summer time u cant make it colder in there if thats the outside temp right? I just know they do need the cooldown period, and if your beardies ever sick u can up it to 80 to get its immune system up while it sleeps... thats about the extent of my knowledge on that, lol. As long as its higher than 65 and less than 80 Id say your good.

Id say I could probably keep my girls together, weve had no real issues, I kinda freak once when the little one was literally kicking the big one outta the way (mean little booger) but the big one didnt mind as much as I did. I do leave food available all the time. But better safe than sorry, so Im separating them soon They will still have time together daily tho. I hate to separate them, but not as much as Id like them to keep all their toes and tail tips. I dont think they rlly get "lonely" from what I understand they live on their own in the wild and only come together after brumation to mate. The mom lays eggs and walks away... so theres no real "family" connection or anything. I had one beardie. he passed suddenly. I (honestly) didnt want another.. I was a mess.. The hubby started looking into breeders b4 the night was out (torture) but seeing the empty tank was much worse. I cried and cried and cried. To the point my family probably thought I was insane bc he was a lizard. My dad even told me at one point not to be so depressed. I would not have bought 2, but we got them at an awesome price and its hard to pass up one let alone 2 baby beardies (they r soo freakin cute) So i have 2. I didnt get them with the intention of keeping them together so they could be friends. And I dont suggest any one house more than one together. Ive read way too may horror stories to "try " to see if it will work.

The pet store should have known better than to combine a new clutch with him Im glad you got him b4 something much worse than a tail nip happened And your doing an awesome job finding out anything you can and being an awesome beardie mom! Sounds like he was picked on.. poor baby. Glad he gets to be kind (or queen) of the castle now

The vinyl flooring I got at Lowes, and It looks like tile and has some texture, its not completely smooth, u can see it in this pic

Ignore the mess, this was the 1st day they actually ate right! And its immedently after they ate and got those big bellies. The only thing about the vinyl floor is the sheets are 12 ft long! so you have to get you depth of the tank cut, so for that small tank I had to buy 1 1/2 ft x 12ft... then just cut it to size... And I believe thats painters tape Ive got it stuck down with. I tried newspapers fr the 1st tiem when I first got them, said screw that too..ugh. But I alrdy had the vinyl flooring, its what I used with Dobby so I just cut a new piece (since I still have so much left over!) If you lived closer Id def have some u could try out! lol. But yea they have trouble walking on smooth surfaces. As long as theres some texture its fine tho.

AH look how cute in the tub!!! I guess its a good thing? he feels safe? I havent heard of one sleeping in the tub b4! Absolutely adorable! Ive got one (athena, the big one) who just sits there.. and the other (persephone) she runs around the whole time.

 

[WolfMama]

Aww, what a cutie.

Thanks, Vampy

I'm not sure how true this is, but everything I've read says to keep the humidity below 40%. I don't actually measure mine as I don't keep a water bowl in the viv and england really isn't a humid place!

Yeah, we have a very humid environment where we are in NY. <waving to England>

I did the research on the mini dehumidifier I’d mentioned previously, and we've just ordered one to put in the viv. It's Eva-dry 333 Wireless Mini Dehumidifer. Someone else said they use it in their viv and it worked great. But, one side of the viv does go down to lower then 20% (while the other side can go up to 60%. It's only a 20 gallon (yes, we're going to get bigger. He's only about 2 1/4 " long body-wise (not including tail) Actually, I have to measure him, as he just had a growth spurt this weekend)).

I called the manufacturer and they said it would be safe, even if he did sit on it. I assumed so, for them to say it was child safe. It'd have to be very safe for them to make that claim, I would think. Company was very nice.

If it works, when we get a larger viv, we'll probably get the 500 (just in case anyone checks this and was wondering, the 500 is for larger area. Depending on the size of the viv, it might be a better choice.

I believe its 20%-40% on the humidity.

I did read that they do need a certain level of humidity. So, the basking end is getting too low, and the cool end is too high. It may be acceptable, then? But, maybe I’ll put a small amount of water at the basking end when it drops too low. We’re now getting out of that rainy time of year. On days it rains, and during summer, it gets very humid where we are. But, winter can get very dry in the house (due to the dry heat in our home).

LOL – opposite problem as before, when I had to keep the A/C on to get rid of the humidity (but wasn’t cool enough to put on the heat, yet.). LOL. Heat isn’t on quite yet, but will be very soon. The lights keep the humidity at bay on the basking side. And, now the CHE light helps at night time. Odd, though, how one side of the tank is so much more humid then the other?

I just recently found out how many laws are not on the books in my state. I would think that not giving an animal enough food during the day, or animals being kept out in the heat to the point of exhaustion, would be animal cruelty. According to the ASPCA, it’s not. They just state that there are no laws against “pan handling.” Quite honestly, if someone has a cute critter that loves being around people, and is being fed and cared for properly, the pan handling wouldn’t really be an issue (as it could be considered a companion relationship). But, for them to say that there are no laws against pan handling, therefore, they can’t do anything about the exhaustion or the lack of rest or food???

LOL – try calling PETA Maybe you can form a protest outside the pet shop That might help

Getting footage, I would think might help, too. Shows the ASPCA isn’t doing their job. Good idea on the news agency.

IMO, I do feel the whole “it” is indicative to viewing animals as objects. Anytime someone wants to view someone as being other then alive, the word “it” is used. It is an object, not a living being. Our society views animals as objects, legally. If the word “it” were changed in the rules of grammar, it would help to change that mentality – especially at a young age when children are forced to use the work “it” in their papers at school. It’s always a key sign to me of how people REALLY think about critters when they use the word “it.” Just about every time I see that, I can also see tell-tale signs that they don’t truly view their critters as part of their family or in a loving way. There is an element of desensitization there.

LOL! Clay sounds terrible! I was looking at some links on the environments of the deserts in Australia. I began to wonder if he might like a small patch of grass with soil in the viv? As long as the humidity is under control, that, of course.

Sounds good on the temps, then. My only concern is that the basking area seems to be below 100 degrees. I’m going to turn the lamp around and see if that makes a difference. I have the digital probe on that end. We’ve, also, ordered the gun probe, so that’ll help me to determine the actual temp where he basks. He never lays directly under the basking lamp, so I’m gathering he doesn’t like it that warm? He should know what he needs, I would think?

The pet store should have known better than to combine a new clutch with him Im glad you got him b4 something much worse than a tail nip happened And your doing an awesome job finding out anything you can and being an awesome beardie mom! Sounds like he was picked on.. poor baby. Glad he gets to be kind (or queen) of the castle now

TY I agree! Without even knowing anything about beardies, I could see how stressed he was in there with them! It was very sad You shouldn’t just throw in a new litter with guinea pigs, either. It’s never a good idea to just toss in new critters like that, IMO.

Oh, the vinyl flooring looks very nice You have a very nice looking one, too. I like the texture. I’m going to look into getting some and seeing how he likes it. (Oh, and it didn't look messy to me. Maybe I'm not seeing something that's there. LOL. You're beardies look very happy )

I just read that the carpet becomes shredded after a few washings :/ That’s disappointing. And, yes, the crickets getting under everything is very nerve wracking (since I worry about them biting him). We’ve come to leave the rogue one during the day (now I feel better having taken your advice on leaving extra greens out. It’s good because he can snack on them when he gets hungry later on. I still worry a lot at night, though, since he sleeps so soundly.

I was just looking into information on if it were possible to “potty train” a bearded dragon. LOL. Found one interesting link. He does, mostly, go in one spot of his viv, so that’s good, so it might be possible. Only thing is, he particularly likes to defecate on US. LOL. Maybe it’s because his bowels get more stimulated when we pet him?

Fed him Phoenix worms yesterday, with some greens, as an afternoon snack. He didn’t take a single bite! I took most of the greens out, and he still didn’t eat them. I then held a PW up to him – didn’t eat that, either. It even crawled off my finger onto his nose at one point, and he just stood there. I took it off, of course.

I put them in a small worm dish that is supposed to stop them from climbing out – NOT! They climbed out, and onto the reptile carpet! Grrrrrr! I put one in his flat dish – he still didn’t take a bite.

Will try them, again, today.

AH look how cute in the tub!!! I guess its a good thing? he feels safe? I havent heard of one sleeping in the tub b4! Absolutely adorable! Ive got one (athena, the big one) who just sits there.. and the other (persephone) she runs around the whole time.

TY Hmmm? I hadn't thought of it that way (that he feels safe). That's a nice feeling TY