We haven't seen any feces yet? New baby beardie...

[WolfMama]

We adopted our little beardie yesterday afternoon. He's approximately 4" long (including his tail, which was nipped). He has eaten 4 small crickets dusted with calcium yesterday evening, this am, and this evening. The pet shop, from what I was told, didn't feed him veggies. I gave him romaine lettuce yesterday and today. He didn't eat it. I moved them to entice him. Then, I went in the yard and got a dandallion leaf this afternoon. I tore it into small pieces and he ate 2 of them.

From what I saw in the petshop, their feces seems to represent bird feces to me. I don't know if he's urinated or not.

He's bedded on the reptile carpet. He has water, or course.

We purchased a reptile kit. He has three lights (day, night, and UVB). The kit came with sand, but as I said, he's bedded on carpet (and was in the pet shop). Oh, and he's been misted as well.

I did read on a car sheet here that they average about one bowel movement a day.

His belly doesn't seem at all distended to me, as he will lay comletely flat when he falls asleep on my hands.

Also, I didn'tk now until I'd read on here last night that he needs to have his basking light on for 2 hours after eats, and 2 hours before? Is that correct. Last night we didn't know that, and after he ate, about 1/2 hour later, the lights went off to just the nightime light. I do have questions about that, but I'll ask them in a separate post as not to confuse with this one.

My concern is the lack of feces from yesterday. Thank you for input.

 

[Onlymediocre]

I wouldnt worry until he goes a few days w/o a BM. I know its hard not to worry, lol. You can give him 10-15 min warm baths (the temp you would bathe a human baby in, and only as deep as to his shoulders) and encourage him to run around in the bath and massage his belly from shoulder to vent gently to hlp get his bowels moving. He rlly doesnt need the water in his tank, if he is actually drinking from it you can leave it, but if not just take it out. Hell get his water from veggies and regular baths, I bathe mine every other day, or daily if Im worried about them not going potty. If you leave the water in the tank, make sure you keep an eye n the humidity so he doesnt get an URI. Also, if you bought the "kit" odds are you have a uvb bulb that can hurt ur beardie, the only ones to use are the reptisun 10.0 tube or acardia 12%, the coil bulbs hurt ur beardies eyes and can cause blindness. And their feces is pee and poo together. The white part (urates) is the pee and of course the brown would be the poo. I dont think any type of "lettuce" is good for them, any green is, turnip green, mustard green, collard green...etc Also are you offering more than 4 crickets a meal? Some pet stores will tell you to only feed 3-4 crickets, but the truth is you need to give him as many crickets as he'll eat within a 10 min period... which can be 30+. They need the protein to grow. And I will refrain from going into the basking light b4 and after eating since you said your posting another topic on it :lol: Ill try to find it.

And CONGRATS on ur new beardie

 

[WolfMama]

Onlymediocre, thank you so very much for your very informative reply (and the congrats )! Yes, the light is the spiral fluorescent light. Reptisun UVB 5.0. I’ve shut it off (I figure a few hours without something potentially harmful is better than keeping it on. He has his heating light. So, he’ll be warm.

What is interesting is that he tended to stay in the middle of the tank if he wasn’t on a heated area. The UVB was to the left. I can’t help but wonder if it was uncomfortable to him?

The other 2 bulbs we have are: zoo-med repti basking spot light 100W, and zoo-med nocturnal infarred heat lamp 100W.

LOL – it is difficult not to worry We’ve had guinea pigs, and they are little pooping machines (and so cute!). So, if they stop pooping even for a few hours you start to worry. So this is completely different experience for us.

He finally left a little present today. LOL. It was dark brown, with a little light brown, and white. I took a picture in case I needed to make sure it was healthy. LOL. Does that sound normal? The dark and white are what remind me of certain small bird feces.

Question, then... so they pass a solidified form (urate) instead of urine? I didn’t know that! Then something must have even been wrong with one bearded dragon in the pet shop My hubby was holding him, and he let out a lot of brown liquid in his hand, and we thought that was urine.

I didn’t realize he doesn’t need water all the time. In the shop they had it (and I’m finding they do a LOT wrong). On the flip side, they never fed them greens. Okay, lettuce is out, then. With guinea pigs I know you can’t feed iceberg as it will cause diarrhea. So, we always stuck with romaine, which was safe. Thought the same was so for the beardie as – again, shop and the book there (which I’m glad we didn’t buy, now) said it was okay. It seems there is as much misinformation out there about bearded dragons as there is about guinea pigs. I prefer to take the advice from rescue people and experienced people as yourself

Oh, another misinformation I’m finding is humidity. Ugh. I did do research for 2 weeks before we brought him home. I’m glad I found this website. So much misinformation out there! The petshop often had the humidity so high that at times the glass was steamed over. They said to mist him once a day. They said nothing of bathing him, and on the net in general there is so much conflicting info. So should he be bathed every day? Every other day? Once a week? Should I still mist him daily? What is the proper humidity (I’m reading anywhere from 20% to no more than 50%)?

I’ve just posted my question on lighting and feeding in the feeding section. Hope that's okay

And thank you for the correction on feeding him! His first night here, he devoured the first 4 crickets! We were going to feed him a 5th, but the pet shop told us that they would overeat and it cause an impaction (which struck me odd at the time, since in the BD tank there were uneaten crickets. I did read not to let that happen. So we are careful to make sure he eats them, or we remove them.)

I have another concern now... if I should post this seperately, plesae let me know.

This morning he only ate 1 cricket. He wanted to come out, so I picked him up and held him, then put him back to see if he’d eat another. He at another, then wanted out again. So he only ate 2 crickets?
On a positive note, his colors are so much more vibrant now, then in the pet shop. Just short of 2 days with us, now, and he’s actually more colorful. The green is brighter and darker, his markings on his back are darkening, and his orange is brighter.

Thanks so much!

 

[Onlymediocre]

Okay.. yes the solid-ish white stuff if the urine.. the one at the pet store musta been sick of something? kinda sounds like diarrhea to me? For your UVB make sure you get the Reptisun 10.0 or acardia 12%... I didnt look to see if it said where you were but if in the U.S. petmountain.com has then for cheap, BUT once I added the shipping on mine it was going to cost more than a guy who has them listed on eBay (they are always listed as he only sells reptile supplies, well and fish stuff) Anywho, he has them listed for 29.99 buy it now with free shipping for the 24" . So I bought mine on eBay. The shipping was superfast, and the bulb arrive packaged neatly and in perfect condition. The Petsmart by me sells them for $50. So hey I saved $20.. no biggy if ur beardie goes a few days w/o uvb. if its still warm enough where your at you could take yours outside for about a half an hr a day for real sunlight, if not, itll be ok. BE CAREFUL, if u do take him outside tho, they are super fast and can get away, maybe put him in a storage tub he cant jump out of, and make sure to provide a shade side so he can move out of the sun if he wants...AND watch for lightening bugs!! I just lost a beardie a little over a week ago, and Im thinking he ate a lightening bug when I wasnt looking, which one kills an adult beardie fast, so my little one didnt stand a chance...so make sure u keep a good eye on him outside. The coil bulb could of very well been causing him discomfort, I imagine it would be like us staring at the sun.

Also, you dont need that night time bulb...it will disturb his sleep. IF the tank gets under 65 degrees F at night then you can get a CHE (ceramic heat emitter) and set it on a thermostat so it kicks on and off as needed.. IF the tank isnt getting that cold at night, you dont need any heat at night at all.

The poo sounds normal, after a month or so, maybe 2 months, you may want to get a fecal test done just to make sure he doesnt have any parasites.. especially if he was housed with the one that decided ur hubby was a potty. Dont waste your money and get one done now, with relocation stress and all, youll get a high count of coccodia and it will end up lowering itself on its own (happened with my 1st beardie) So if you havent found you a good vet yet, nows the time to start looking.

And no, he doesnt need water all the time. And I believe around 20% would be right for the humidity..remember these are desert animals. I bathe every other day, sometimes every day if Im paranoid about BMs.. and everyday if not twice a day while they are shedding...And I have a baby toothbrush to gently rub them with if its a stubborn shed. Some ppl mist their dragons, I dont... Ive read of some ppl misting the glass so the droplets run down and then the beardie drinks them... my beardies drink in the bath (its actually pretty cute, lol) But I drop some water on their noses and theyll lick it.. you can also gently swirl the water next to them so they see it move, and most the time, they will just lean down and lap it up.

For your veggies to feed.. you can check out this nutrional chart and it shows you whats good to feed and whats not, for every day and rarely, etc...http://www.beautifuldragons.com/Nutrition.html

On the only ate 2 crix.. Id just wait til next feeding and dump some in (maybe a dozen ish) if he "wants out" I wouldnt bring him out..bc YES they do need a couple hrs in the heat to digest their food, without the heat they cant digest it. And if he devours those dozen dump in some more. With the relocation stress of being in a new home and all, he prob wont eat as much as he should for a week or so anyway, so its rlly nothing to worry about yet, just keep offering. and remember to take the xtra crix out with hes done, or at least b4 bedtime, beardies are hard sleepers and crix will bite them at night, and they wont even know its happening to get away.

And you can post all you questions together, or seperate... it doesnt matter. Im sure Im not the only person who can answer (and if Im wrong about something I hope someone corrects me ), and if one of us doesnt know the answer we can find out, or someone else will...

Glad his colors are brighter Hes a happy dragon, and lucky to have a slave who took the time to find the right information not just trust the pet store

 

[WolfMama]

Awwww! Thank you Onlymediocre! That was sweet of you to say Showed my hubby and he said the same Much appreciated! We're trying

Once again, you are a wealth of information! So very helpful! Thank you! We replaced the UV lamp with a strip lamp they had that goes across the entire back of the viv. Hope that is a good one. tube bulbs. I'm definitely going to check out eBay. Do you have a particular buyer you recommend? They gave us credit back on the lightbulb, so it evened out - but actually it didn't, because we couldn't exchange the lamp for the difference for that (as they don't sell the lamp separately). It was nice of the store to do what they could on that regard. But, yeah, would much prefer to buy the bulb from ebay to save the money! That's a big difference. Oh, and yes, I'm in the NE of the US

They have never heard of the CHE. I think I'd like ot have one on hand should it get too cold. Although unless we have a heating problem, our home won't go below 65 degrees (so I imgine his viv won't, either. I'd like to get the CHE just in case we do need it. Who has those, and the sensor?

I'd read about the lightening bugs. I"m afraid now to let him go on the crass, even. We don't use any herbicides, pesticides or fertilizer in our backyard (we keep that organic). But what if he eats another bug in the grass or something? Oddly, we have a LOT of crickets in our yard. LOL. They seem to breed inside a hole in the cement stairs. LOL. Aside from the fact that they are too big,

Good idea on the fecal test! Actually, we have a problem on the vet issue. We can go to one closer who is an exotics, but I don't care for her at all! I call her "stay the course [last name]. She almost killed 2 of our guinea pigs, and did kill a third. So, we found a better exotics vet in a neighboring STATE, believe it or not. So the vet ride would be about 2.5 hours each way. How do we keep him warm and transport him at the same time? One of us can hold him the entire time But, I'm not sure that's enough warmth for that period of time.

We're about to feed him again. I'll let you know how he eats

Oh, if I'd known, I would have posted my feeding question in this one Would still appreciate your input!

Thanks Onlymediocre!!!

P.S., oh, another thing on the feeding: I'm so concerned about accidentally leaving a cricket behind, we only toss in a couple at a time and we remove everything from his tank while he eats. We've been thinking of feeding him in a 10 gallon tank that I have or a large rubbermade (with a strip of ecocarpet or something for flooring). Right now, the little crickets keep going under the eco carpet.

 

[Onlymediocre]

Heres the link for the 24" reptisun 10.0 auction, he also sells the other sizes tho...http://www.ebay.com/itm/130445847728?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649 This guy or gal is def who Im gonna be getting my lights from for now on. The tube bulb you bought is the reptisun 10.0 right? not reptiglo, there is a big differrence. Also if you can mount the strip inside the tank, the screen blocks out the uvb, i think like 50% of it.. you can use those 3m command strips to connect it with no problems.

And thanks, I tend to browse this forum on and off all day, lol. Ive kinda gone a bit beardie crazy, lol. Everything the pet store told me was wrong and sold me all the wrong things, then I started watching the er section so IF anything ever happened Id be prepared.

You can probably grab a CHE off eBay too, Petsmart here has them and Im in alabama so if your in the north east (what state?) youd think theyd have them, they are around $20 here, and on the very bottom shelf under the heat mat section, if that hlps at all. The thermostat should be on the shelf above with all the timers and stuff...

If you take him outside, you just have to keep a good eye on him. Now granted im super paranoid about taking one of my new babies outside since I just lost my other, but when they get a little bigger and its warmer, they will go outside with me, but Ill be watching them like a hawk! But my paranoia is no reason for them not to get fresh air and real sun.

Any chance the exotic vet u dont like will do a fecal without seeing ur beardie? Maybe they are competent enough to look as feces and tell if theres worms or eggs? OR you could mail a fecal sample to Cheryl at beardeddragon.co and she can do one for you... or you can go to that website and order the stuff to do one urself And they have great prices.. I havent done that myself, but i got rlly lucky and live 10 mins from a small town vet who happens to have beardies But IF I ever were to get a fecal back bad and needed medicine, I can tell you Id ask and make sure what was prescribed is right then order it from there, cause I seriously doubt it would be near as cheap at a vet. Thats a LONG drive to a vet.. Id get a carrier, like a puppy one thats kinda sturdy and you can buy heat packs (like hot hands) on eBay (yea Im kinda a eBay freak) the ones they ship reptiles with would work great for warmth on a long car ride. Also great incase you ever get a power outage.. I keep some in a beardie emergency kit, along with baby food and the needless syringe and what not.

As for the rogue crickets... Leave a small piece of egg carton, or some fresh veggies in there at night, hopefully they will eat those b4 ur dragon.

 

[WolfMama]

Hi I’ve not been able to post a reply, but was receiving an error message. The fault was at my end Thanks to the admin for helping Trying again, now …

Thanks so much, Onlymediocre! I really appreciate all of your help and advice!

I don't know if I can mount the fluorescent inside. I’ll see if I can do that. The current tank is only 20 gallons (he's only about 4" long, and body length alone is about 2" long). I just want to make sure I can safely mount it.

He's a cutie I have to post a pic. He got on the thermometer wire and laid on it yesterday. Don't know how he got up there.

Thanks so much for the ebay contact! Definitely going to check that out.

I'm in NY I know, you'd think we'd have TONS of vets here. Well, we do. That may be the problem. We're flooded. I'm not kidding when I tell you we went through numerous vets before we found a good one, for our guinea pigs. Too many vets are in the business simply for the $$$ and don't care about the animals.

This new vet practice has specialists for every critter. I was extremely impressed with the vet we saw new a popular guinea pig guru. I don't know if he even does reptiles, but if he doesn't, someone in his practice does – so I'm going on that.

No, the vet won't do a fecal analysis for us. She would insist on seeing any critter. She charges $100 for the office visit, and adds to everything thereafter. You do not walk out of her office paying less then $200. She's one of the most expensive vets where we live, but she's horrid.

Alabama sounds nice I have met so many people from "small town" areas who seem to have the BEST and most caring vets! IMO, that's really the key. If they don't know, they care enough to look into it. They don't get insulted if you did research and brought it in, they actually tend to appreciate it. Not the same here. They are arrogant. Even the ones that seem nice are just too full of pride. I've had vets that said cats don't mourn, and don't feel depression. :roll: I could tell you some horror stories. It's all about $$$ for these people.

We can try another Petsmart. Maybe they will have it. I'll double check in the location you mentioned. Thanks I’d like to have one just in case.

Right now, the temperatures aren't dropping low. It's been staying between 72 - 75 degrees at night.

Oh! I didn’t know they had special heat packs for beardies. I’ll definitely get those! And, yes, that would be helpful should we have a power outage.

What do you keep in a beardie emergency kit? It would be good to have What type of baby food?

Our beardie’s bowel movements have been daily since my first post Glad about that. But are they supposed to smell??? LOL. I know that sounds like an odd question. I clean them out as soon as I see them. Yesterday he went as soon as I put him back in his viv, and it stank! It’s a tiny thing, too! Guinea pig feces don’t smell, and our cats no longer do since we put them on raw food. I expect it from our cats, but didn’t from such a small critter. LOL!

It looked normal. A tiny amount of “urine” did come out with it. But there was the urate. Is that normal? It was a very small amount of urine. Prior, I’ve only seen them already dried.

How soon should I do a fecal analysis? Definitely going to check out that site! TY …. Okay, checked (LOL). It says to wait 4-6 weeks after relocation (which you had said to wait a bit), but it also says that it should be a teaspoons worth? Our beardie is so small! He only does a small amount at a time. It would take weeks to get that much. His feces are about the size of a parakeet dropping (if that makes any sense). Would I still need the same amount with the DIY kit?

The nutritional site you recommended (TY good nutritional info on that link) mentions multivitamins. Are they necessary if he is getting a good diet? We’re giving him gut loaded crickets with light calcium from the store, and collard greens that I hand feed him. If they are a good idea, what kind should I give him? I saw on the site Rep-cal Juvenile Bearded Dragon Food. Our beardie is just a baby. I could crush it up. Would that be good for him? They almost make that look like a complete diet?

So far, no rogue crickets IN the viv. LOL. One did come with the bag from the pet shop!!! Was HUGE. Not at all like the ones outside, so I know it came from the pet shop. But I am extremely paranoid about them in the viv.

 

[Onlymediocre]

Heres a good thread on stuff for an emergency kit >> viewtopic.php?f=1&t=174973&start=15 .. Im still working on mine, baby food , get the squash and the chicken kind.. and you can go to the pharmacy in walmart/target/wherever and ask for the needless syringes to give a baby medicine and theyll just give you one... The hot packs are the ones they use for shipping animals and I believe they are called uniheat.. they last up to 40 hrs. You can prob find them on eBay, or something similar, or get all your stuff at beardeddragon.co for a one stop shop. Then you could pick up all the supplements that could come in handy too. Just browse thru their selection and ull see plenty of stuff you may need if something happens or your beardie gets sick. And their prices are rlly good so it shouldnt cost an arm and a leg... just an arm :lol:

You should be able to mount the UVB using those 3m command strips or some heavy duty velcro, both should hold.

And def post some pics

As for the fecal IDK about the teaspoon worth, you could message them and ask? I just took a fresh sample to my local vet to do mine, maybe it has something to do with the poo drying out during shipping or something? Im sure you wouldnt need that much if you got the kit to look urself. I believe the lady at that sites named Cheryl and Im ABSOLUTELY positive she can answer any and every question you may have on that, from what I gather she def knows beardies.

Are you saying he pooped and it had a urate, but had water too? If so thats fine, hes not dehydrated, so good job! As long as the poop was still formed its okay, If its ever just a watery mush then thats diarrhea. Mines poo stinks, not clear a room stinks, but it def has a scent. If it is clear the room nasty then most likely theres parasites. Id wait probaly a month or so b4 getting a fecal done tho, youll get get a false positive with the relocation stress going on.

You should get a multivitamin. You should dust one feeding a day 5x a week with the calicium then do the multivitamin the other 2 days... most ppl use the calicium mon-fri and the multi on the weekends. Collard greens are great. you can mix in other greens and a piece of fruit every so often for variety.. and look at u spoiling ur beardie!!! Hand feeding him is greens! Thats ur call. I hand fed my 1st his greens, but he nvr touched his bowl... If you have the time to do that thats great, if not remember when he gets older his diet will switch up to mostly greens and less protein, and you may have to hand feed all of that. I dont think a healthy beardie will starve himself, so hed probably eventually use his bowl, but itll have ur nerves rattled that he isnt eating... I usually offer a few bites by hand then tell them heres ur bowl and put it in the tank. You can try that commercial beardie food, I havent. Itd prob be good for that emergency kit, if he wouldnt eat it you could prob get it wet and mush it up and put it in a syringe to feed him, IF you do get it for a feeder for now, he may or may not eat it, some do some dont... but hed still need his crix and veggies too.

Yea my vet is pretty nice, I called everyone around and the ONLY one that would see reptiles is about 10 mins from where I live, I was very iffy.. But I went and talked to her, she said she had a beardie and after talking with her, im sure she does..everything she said went along with this site, so I RLLY got lucky, and shes way cheap $16 for a fecal and $36 for a visit. Alabama is nice. I moved here about 14 yrs ago, and ended up marrying a guy from here, so here I am stuck, lol.

AS for rouge crix, not need to stress, just always leave some greens in there just in case and you should be fine, I see a lot of ppl will use a seperate bin to feed their dragons in instead of their tanks to avoid that problem, but mine refuse to, theyll just sit there like "ah why am i in a tub..." But u could try that and see if it works...

I think i covered everything? lol Ill look around at those hot packs and let u know if i find them anywhere super cheap, right now i only have regular hot hands, so I need to look into getting some too, lol.
OH i almost forgot Im glad ur little one is pooping for you now Strange how quickly we beardie owners can become so happy over poop huh?

 

[AHBD]

Hi there....I tried to read most of this thread, probably missed a few things here + there, but....I just wanted to mention that [ as was already mentioned ] the baby may not eat alot for the first week or so, so that's normal. Even a bath will be new to him and possibly add to the stress. It might be good to give it some time before doing a fecal + possibly giving some meds, because that could be pretty hard on a tiny baby that only weighs a few grams. Getting him in the sun for about 30 -40 minutes a day can give him a good deal of UVB. You can use a cardboard box if you're afraid to put him in the grass [ from which they can sprint away at surprising speed, be careful ! ] If you use a cardboard box, add a small basking log, and stay with him , always be sure it's at least half shade. Hopefully his appetite will pick up soon.

 

[WolfMama]

Thank you, as always, Onlymediocre And thank you, AHBD, for replying

I will definitely go to the link and begin putting together an emergency kit, and include those heating pads, ASAP! Thought we might have to rush him to the emergency vet tonight! I was so worried! (posted here: posting.php?mode=edit&f=45&t=178747&p=1439284 ) I was going to post it here, and just ended up in the ER forum, since I thought we might actually end up there with him tonight.

He started keeping his mouth this afternoon. He hadn't done that before. Well, don't want to create 2 threads on it. I was going to post it here, but thought that it might make this one more confusing. LOL.

Can he get hurt on the bulbs if they are in his viv, since it's only a 20 gallon and not high? Just want to make sure.

I'll post some pics here tomorrow of him/her I think he might be a he. Not sure, though He's so adorable! I checked here to make sure it was okay - and apparently it is. He fell asleep the other night standing up! As the night went on, he slowly went down more and more in like 10 degree increments, till he was straight out on the bottom. LOL. He was standing on his toes at first.

Tonight he fell asleep so sad! I posted at the other link how he fell asleep. I'm not letting that happen again! What do you do if they beg to have their light put back on? I'm not a "let 'em cry it out" parent. LOL. Can't do it to a beardie, either. LOL. So sad how he fell asleep tonight I feel awful!

I'll contact Cheryl and ask her about the fecal analysis. I just read on the ER forum that someone else bought a baby beardie from petsmart and the poor little thing had coccidia. I'm worried as ours was in that tiny little viv with the one with the diarrhea. They don't even clean the bottoms daily! I clean ours every time I see his excrements in the viv! Poor beardies were walking all over each others feces in that tiny viv. I'm just concerned now even more, after the mouth gaping today.

Wow! That is cheap! And she knows beardies! That's awesome! Everything here is so ridiculously expensive

Alabama is nice. I moved here about 14 yrs ago, and ended up marrying a guy from here, so here I am stuck, lol.

LOL sounds like a nice place to get stuck. LOL.

AS for rouge crix, not need to stress, just always leave some greens in there just in case and you should be fine, I see a lot of ppl will use a seperate bin to feed their dragons in instead of their tanks to avoid that problem, but mine refuse to, theyll just sit there like "ah why am i in a tub..." But u could try that and see if it works...

ROFL!!! That cracked me up! Yeah, I could see our beardie doing the exact same thing! We used to remove everything from his viv, and he absolutely did not like that. So, we stopped doing that. But, when we have to catch the left over crickets, he takes a ride on his big branch as we slide it back and forth. Seems to amuse him. LOL.

He's SO lazy - LOL. When he is done eating, the crickets will walk right past him, under his belly, across his tail, and he just sits there. Sometimes he runs away as if he is scared of them.

and look at u spoiling ur beardie!!! Hand feeding him is greens!

LOL! I am. LOL! I was shredding them into tiny pieces. Someone told me the other day that I can hold the leaf in my hand and he will bite off what he wants. So, I tried that, and he did It was cute

But, you're right. He needs to be able to eat them on his own, too. I'll have to not do it all the time and make sure he will eat them on his own, too

Today he didn't want any, hand fed, or otherwise That was disappointing.
That vitamin schedule sounds like a very good idea.

Is there a multi-vit you prefer? If it's anything like with guinea pigs, there are a ton of things out there that are not best for them.

I've read some say you should use the calcium with D3. But, it's also said that too much D3 can be harmful and counterproductive. We are currently using just a calcium supplement. Should we stick with that and use the multi to get the extra D3?

Yup It was solid poop with the urate, and had a little water Oh, good! Glad that's right I do worry about him staying hydrated
Well, I dunno how stinky it's supposed to be, but it was pretty stinky for such a tiny poop, IMO. LOL. It didn't clear the room, but I could smell it while leaning over his tank. Surprised me, given how small it was. LOL. I'll get him tested in a few more weeks, for sure.

Ill look around at those hot packs and let u know if i find them anywhere super cheap

Thanks so much, Onlymediocre! I really appreciate it!

OH i almost forgot Im glad ur little one is pooping for you now Strange how quickly we beardie owners can become so happy over poop huh?

LOL! Definitely!

Now he's got me worried about the mouth gaping And I'm concerned that he didn't want his light/heat off tonight The viv is still a good temp. for nighttime (it's 77 degrees ATM - it's been off for about 2.5 hours. The humidity crept up with the drop in temp, though, too (60% now). Plus I tunred the A/C off because I didn't want it getting too cool.

Even a bath will be new to him and possibly add to the stress.

I want to give him a bath, and when we were worried he might be impacted, we were going to. But since he's now having BMs, I thought we might wait till next week to introduce that. He seemed so much happier his first day here then he was at the pet store. I hope he is I never saw him stand so "proud" (if that makes any sense). At the pet store he was the one stepped and piled up on by everyone else

It might be good to give it some time before doing a fecal + possibly giving some meds, because that could be pretty hard on a tiny baby that only weighs a few grams.

Yes, I do hope he won't need any meds, being so little. I am concerned since one of the BD in the pet store apparently had diarrhea, and after the gaping today I became worried. But, I'm hoping that was normal. He's asleep now and not gaping in his sleep any time I've looked over at him.
So, I hope that's a good sign.

What is a safe temp here to take him out in? Also, what is a safe humidity. We have a lot of humidity where I live - especially in summer and early fall. We only have 2 more days that are supposed to be in the 70s. I think it's too cool, now to take him outdoors here, now. And, humidity is high ATM, as we've had a lot of rain this past week. Otherwise, that would be good.

He is a speedy lil' critter! Scared me the other day! I sat on the floor with him, and he took off like a shot! Thankfully, our kitties weren't quick to go after him. It's kinda like Stewart Little "He's family - you don't eat family." LOL. I'd NEVER leave him unattended with our kitties, but I'm thankful the one who saw him take off just followed after him behind me, and didn't go after him! Now I'm nervous about putting him on the floor. As soon as he is old enough, I'm getting a harness. LOL.

Good idea on the basking log and shade I'll work on that for the spring/summer.

Thankfully, his appetite is improving. We wonder if he ever got much to eat at the pet store to start with, as he was so submissive. Today it wasn't as good as yesterday, though, but still much better then a few days ago

Thanks again for the replies!

 

[WolfMama]

Thank you, as always, Onlymediocre And thank you, AHBD, for replying

I will definitely go to the link and begin putting together an emergency kit, and include those heating pads, ASAP! Thought we might have to rush him to the emergency vet tonight! I was so worried! (posted here: posting.php?mode=edit&f=45&t=178747&p=1439284 ) I was going to post it here, and just ended up in the ER forum, since I thought we might actually end up there with him tonight.

He started keeping his mouth this afternoon. He hadn't done that before. Well, don't want to create 2 threads on it. I was going to post it here, but thought that it might make this one more confusing. LOL.

Can he get hurt on the bulbs if they are in his viv, since it's only a 20 gallon and not high? Just want to make sure.

I'll post some pics here tomorrow of him/her I think he might be a he. Not sure, though He's so adorable! I checked here to make sure it was okay - and apparently it is. He fell asleep the other night standing up! As the night went on, he slowly went down more and more in like 10 degree increments, till he was straight out on the bottom. LOL. He was standing on his toes at first.

Tonight he fell asleep so sad! I posted at the other link how he fell asleep. I'm not letting that happen again! What do you do if they beg to have their light put back on? I'm not a "let 'em cry it out" parent. LOL. Can't do it to a beardie, either. LOL. So sad how he fell asleep tonight I feel awful!

I'll contact Cheryl and ask her about the fecal analysis. I just read on the ER forum that someone else bought a baby beardie from petsmart and the poor little thing had coccidia. I'm worried as ours was in that tiny little viv with the one with the diarrhea. They don't even clean the bottoms daily! I clean ours every time I see his excrements in the viv! Poor beardies were walking all over each others feces in that tiny viv. I'm just concerned now even more, after the mouth gaping today.

Wow! That is cheap! And she knows beardies! That's awesome! Everything here is so ridiculously expensive

Alabama is nice. I moved here about 14 yrs ago, and ended up marrying a guy from here, so here I am stuck, lol.

LOL sounds like a nice place to get stuck. LOL.

AS for rouge crix, not need to stress, just always leave some greens in there just in case and you should be fine, I see a lot of ppl will use a seperate bin to feed their dragons in instead of their tanks to avoid that problem, but mine refuse to, theyll just sit there like "ah why am i in a tub..." But u could try that and see if it works...

ROFL!!! That cracked me up! Yeah, I could see our beardie doing the exact same thing! We used to remove everything from his viv, and he absolutely did not like that. So, we stopped doing that. But, when we have to catch the left over crickets, he takes a ride on his big branch as we slide it back and forth. Seems to amuse him. LOL.

He's SO lazy - LOL. When he is done eating, the crickets will walk right past him, under his belly, across his tail, and he just sits there. Sometimes he runs away as if he is scared of them.

and look at u spoiling ur beardie!!! Hand feeding him is greens!

LOL! I am. LOL! I was shredding them into tiny pieces. Someone told me the other day that I can hold the leaf in my hand and he will bite off what he wants. So, I tried that, and he did It was cute

But, you're right. He needs to be able to eat them on his own, too. I'll have to not do it all the time and make sure he will eat them on his own, too

Today he didn't want any, hand fed, or otherwise That was disappointing.
That vitamin schedule sounds like a very good idea.

Is there a multi-vit you prefer? If it's anything like with guinea pigs, there are a ton of things out there that are not best for them.

I've read some say you should use the calcium with D3. But, it's also said that too much D3 can be harmful and counterproductive. We are currently using just a calcium supplement. Should we stick with that and use the multi to get the extra D3?

Yup It was solid poop with the urate, and had a little water Oh, good! Glad that's right I do worry about him staying hydrated
Well, I dunno how stinky it's supposed to be, but it was pretty stinky for such a tiny poop, IMO. LOL. It didn't clear the room, but I could smell it while leaning over his tank. Surprised me, given how small it was. LOL. I'll get him tested in a few more weeks, for sure.

Ill look around at those hot packs and let u know if i find them anywhere super cheap

Thanks so much, Onlymediocre! I really appreciate it!

OH i almost forgot Im glad ur little one is pooping for you now Strange how quickly we beardie owners can become so happy over poop huh?

LOL! Definitely!

Now he's got me worried about the mouth gaping And I'm concerned that he didn't want his light/heat off tonight The viv is still a good temp. for nighttime (it's 77 degrees ATM - it's been off for about 2.5 hours. The humidity crept up with the drop in temp, though, too (60% now). Plus I tunred the A/C off because I didn't want it getting too cool.

Even a bath will be new to him and possibly add to the stress.

I want to give him a bath, and when we were worried he might be impacted, we were going to. But since he's now having BMs, I thought we might wait till next week to introduce that. He seemed so much happier his first day here then he was at the pet store. I hope he is I never saw him stand so "proud" (if that makes any sense). At the pet store he was the one stepped and piled up on by everyone else

It might be good to give it some time before doing a fecal + possibly giving some meds, because that could be pretty hard on a tiny baby that only weighs a few grams.

Yes, I do hope he won't need any meds, being so little. I am concerned since one of the BD in the pet store apparently had diarrhea, and after the gaping today I became worried. But, I'm hoping that was normal. He's asleep now and not gaping in his sleep any time I've looked over at him.
So, I hope that's a good sign.

What is a safe temp here to take him out in? Also, what is a safe humidity. We have a lot of humidity where I live - especially in summer and early fall. We only have 2 more days that are supposed to be in the 70s. I think it's too cool, now to take him outdoors here, now. And, humidity is high ATM, as we've had a lot of rain this past week. Otherwise, that would be good.

He is a speedy lil' critter! Scared me the other day! I sat on the floor with him, and he took off like a shot! Thankfully, our kitties weren't quick to go after him. It's kinda like Stewart Little "He's family - you don't eat family." LOL. I'd NEVER leave him unattended with our kitties, but I'm thankful the one who saw him take off just followed after him behind me, and didn't go after him! Now I'm nervous about putting him on the floor. As soon as he is old enough, I'm getting a harness. LOL.

Good idea on the basking log and shade I'll work on that for the spring/summer.

Thankfully, his appetite is improving. We wonder if he ever got much to eat at the pet store to start with, as he was so submissive. Today it wasn't as good as yesterday, though, but still much better then a few days ago

Thanks again for the replies!

 

[AHBD]

Hi again.....well, gaping could be for several reasons, but he may have just been thermo regulating with his mouth open. Just basking in the heat in other words. I know you're worried about him, but try not to read too much in to anything . And I didn't catch how he is being hydrated, but with yout high humidity there, you don't want to spray him in the tank, so he will need a shallow [ like literally half inch ] lukewarm bath. Just be right there with him, though. For the bath to be as stress free as possible, just bring a small plastic container of some sort right over by his tank. Put him in very gently, and set him in. He should drink if he's thirsty, and you can dribble small amounts of water on his head to get him to drink if he doesn't do do on his own. If you ever do spray him in the tank, just dribble water lightly from an eyedropes or syringe or spray bottle directly on his head, but it must be gently. You can only do this in his tank if you have bare flooring that can be wiped dry right away....if you have reptile carpet, your humidity will increase, and your humidity is already high so it's bst not to do it that way. And if a baby at the store had diahhrea, that doesn't mean coccidia or parasites necessarily. There are a number of reasons that any dragon might occassionally have runny poo, even from stress. Some vets precribe Albon for coccidia, just remember that is one med. that is VERY harsh on babies, and he's far too small for that , it's very difficult to dose a tiny baby. so you might not want to get a fecal done until he's bigger , less stressed from being in his new home, [ because stress can raise the levels of parasites temporarily, and if you wait, the count may be lowere ! ] before giving any meds.

 

[Onlymediocre]

I agree with AHBD. I wouldnt mist him in there any more, your humidity is a bit high. I give mine baths every other day and they loves it they swim around. Its cool to watch they use their tails like alligators! And again wait a while to get the fecal done, my Vet wont even prescribe meds for one that small... She says it causes more harm than good. My new babies (ive had them about a week and a half now) will be waiting a couple months b4 I get them one done, unless god forbid, we have an issue. My 1st beardie (that I got it done too soon and got a low coccodia count on) was around 9 inches and she said that was was too small to medicate, plus it was a RLLY low count. Like 6 on the whole slide. And Ive since realized he had a tail nip, so he should of been longer, I didnt know, he was a pet store baby I bought on impuse b4 I knew ANYTHING about beardies. Not that his nip made him any less impressive, but his body was WAY bigger, his weight was twice the weight of 9 inch I have now that hatched the week of July 14th. So Im sure he had a good bit nipped off. So Id def wait til urs gets a bit bigger instead of wasting the money on one now.

The screen will block out the UVB, I think like 50% of it? you want it where he can get within 6-8 inches on if, the UVB doesnt give off heat, so you dont have to worry about him getting burnt or anything.

Petsmart is notorious for housing their beardies all sorts of incorrect ways.Its not just Petsmart, its most Pet stores, I had a horrible experience at a big name local pet store up by bham the hubby and I went into.. we were just glad we didnt have the kids with us that day!! Lets just say theyre was MBD and one beardie was discarded just laying there waiting to die! Never knowing anything about beardies theyre all cute in there, but once you know you want to try to fix it and its a losing battle. Ive gotten to where I just avoid petsmart like the plague. Cause you go in there and then you cant resist checking out the reptiles, and then you wanna smack someone. lol. Last time I was in there, I seen their humidity was alrdy 50% , and b4 we walked out the store and employee was over there misting them! And I mean drenching these poor things, My husband and I looked at eachother, and we left. I breed dubia for a staple, and can order any other variety off line. Were going to our first reptile show this month, think were gonna get our son a king snake -_- <<< thats my not amused face, And Im sure there will probably be some feeders for sale there so Im gonna see what sorts of treats I can get my beardies while were there I might even buy some crix for them I know theres a crix breeder that goes to it that sells 1000 for 15. Thats a thought have u seen if theres any local reptile shows around you? We have one in Bham monthly. And I know you can get rlly good deals on stuff there, so you might could look into that.

And yea Alabama is nice, I wouldnt want to live in any other type sitting now, And i love my kids get to grow up here, I can do without the "rednecks" but in general ppl here are nice. Im from Columbus OH, and was raised in Boca Raton FL... SO alabama is way dif!! I didnt realize how rude ppl are until after I lived here then went up to ohio to visit with family, taking the hubby and our 1st born, I was shocked at how ppl acted! Even knowing I prob was like that at some point cause it was the norm. So Im def content being here in a little 2 stoplight town

Mine do the same thing theyll eat then let the roaches just crawl around and over them...Im like "ah, you know theres a roach on ur head right?" lol

I havent tried the holding a whole leaf thing... seems like its a good idea tho, I may try it every so often to see what happens. Baby beardies aretn big on greens (like a human baby) just keep offering.

I dont understand the to have d3 or not to have d3...I use the with d3. I think if u use a MVB bulb then u can use the w/o. But im honestly not 100% on that. :dontknow: Ive heard good and bad things on the MVBs, so I steer clear of them. I havent heard anything bad about the reptisun 10.0 tube and a basking bulb, so thats what I use.. The MVB (Mercury Vapor Bulb) puts out both the UVB and the heat source. Again ive heard good and bad...but IDK Im not gonna use them, cause what if it is bad? But some ppl swear by them.. I just dont know, lol.

 

[Onlymediocre]

those Uniheat warmers are on eBay at rlly good prices, you can get ones that last 40 or 72 hrs! I just typed "uniheat" in the search bar and they came up, IDK how many youd want to get but they are on there..

 

[WolfMama]

Hi! So sorry! I read both threads and realized some of the comments I’d made weren’t for that thread, it was for this one. LOL. Took most of them out and meant to post here, and I see I hadn’t

Okay, long reply here

Okay, trying not to worry (that was one of them )

I’d read so much about how they can asphyxiate, and how they can get URI, etc. I really panicked!

Since nothing ATM seems to be an “emergency” I’m going to defer the other thread back here, unless it becomes and emergency (God forbid). I don’t want to distract from emergencies. I was really thinking we might end up at an emergency vet clinic (I hate those! You rarely get someone “on” that knows what they are doing – even with cats and dogs – unless it’s a routine thing.)

I will NOT be spraying him again! They said they “love” being sprayed at Petsmart, so I thought they did. He seemed to like it the one day. But the day he started the gaping, he did not seem to like it. I do wipe everything down after I spray him (since the humidity is over 30% - was very bad this am! More about that in a minute), but I hadn’t thought about the carpet raising the humidity.

If I need to “mist” him for any reason, I’ll take him out of the viv and use the dropper as you’ve recommended AHBD.

Okay, was worried he may have had parasites. Given the “care” they are getting there, and how they don’t make sure people wash their hands before handling (even some of the employees go from one group to the next, without washing their hands), I was very concerned.

Well the other BD didn’t have what I’d consider “runny.” I don’t know what the fecal part looked like (I’ll have to ask hubby – or if there even was any and it was in fact all just bad diarrhea), but he “peed” a LOT of brown liquid in my hubby’s hand (and he’s got a pretty big hand). We were surprised that so much liquid came out of a critter so small.

I am worried about meds at his age. Well, I worry about them at any age. For my son I always researched everything before I gave it to him. I handn’t with our kitties as it was always basic stuff. But for our guinea pigs, I found out early on I had to do my research. Actually had a vet try to Rx penicillin! That’s toxic to Guinea Pigs.

Looks like I’ll have to learn a whole different world for our beardie. Hopefully, he won’t need any and will stay nice and healthy

I gave him a bath, OnlyMediocre! He hardly ate yesterday. When he wouldn’t eat for the first four hours, I began to panic and worry that it may have been connected and the gaping may have been more severe, as he gaped first think in the am (and hadn’t done that before). I don’t see him doing that this am.

I’ll definitely wait on the parasites. Anything I can do to bring down the possible count naturally would be better.

I took another look. I may have to change our lamp, again. The lamp goes across the entire viv, and won’t fit inside of it. What I am doing, after reading your post, OnlyMediocre, is sliding back his screen top, so the lamp isn’t being covered by the screen. I can’t leave it this way if I’m not here, though, because we have kitties

I’m trying to figure out if there is a way I can secure the lamp (with Velcro) so it can’t be knocked off, and the screen as well (it clips in so it can’t be opened, but I can’t use the clips if the frame is pushed back).

Whatever I do it has to be very secure. One of our kitties has recently taken quite a liking to him They are like TV to each other. LOL. I’ll share that another time.

Hmmm? But still, don’tk now if it’s close enough, then… Just measured, his basking spots are about 8.5 “ to 9” from the UVB light. He can get close if he wants to, but doesn’t that branch (height doesn’t seem to be the issue for him, as he went on the wire. Since he did that, we’ve been trying to find an appropriate vine for him to climb on.

I usually try to only patronize a couple of Pet Supply Plus stores as one particular manager takes in rescue critters and she really cares about the animals. But, we ended up at Pet Smart. The one young man was so nice, and said he had a bearded dragon for 10 years. I don’t think he lied, he really was a nice kid. But, I’m rather perplexed. Others I’d spoke to apart from him, knew nothing – and BSed their way through (I hate that, and had I not already become attached to this little critter, I would not have adopted a critter from there – they may have sold, but we adopted I don’t view critters as property).

I’ve seen their tanks full of humidity – as you describe, they must have misted down the entire tank, as it was all hazed over. The thought now upsets me! At the time, I thought it was normal for them.).

We do get the crickets there, because checked two other stores, and PetLand considered “gut loaded” to be fish food! Another had no idea what “gut loaded” meant! I do see the orange cubes in with the crickets at PetSmart. But, we recently found a local reptile store, and when we can, we’re going there to patronize them, instead. They definitely gut load and the couple that own it were very nice So, we’re going to patronize them as much as possible.

Dubia are too big for baby beardies, aren’t they? IOW, they don’t come small by any chance? LOL! Actually, I’m terrified of cockroaches! I know regular cockroaches can breed quick and can overrun a home. 8-O <look of horror> I imagine Dubai cockroaches wouldn’t be much different?

It’s a conundrum for me. LOL. On the flip side, I like crickets, and hate feeding them live. LOL. I actually hate seeing anything eaten live, but I hate seeing him hungry, so.

I’ve never been to a reptile show before. Sounds interesting. Although, if I saw a live mouse being fed to a snake, I might have the urge to “rescue” it. LOL. I love rodents I’m glad beardies don’t *need* to have them.

I’m going to see when one will be in our area

I envy you, OnlyMediocre. Sounds like the community I’ve always wanted, and the type I wanted to raise my son in Thank God he’s AMAZING despite the atmosphere here! Yes, Northern States can be very obnoxious. I was partly raised in a small town atmosphere, and never did adjust to the lifestyle we have here. <sigh> Although, not all of NY is like that. Where we have has been labeled the most obnoxious place in the US by some magazines and articles. LOL. And, now, it’s not Manhattan Manhattan and certain NYC areas are hurried, but people are nice. I like the open air, though.

Mine do the same thing theyll eat then let the roaches just crawl around and over them...Im like "ah, you know theres a roach on ur head right?" lol

LOL! That is SO funny! I had to tap the viv yesterday to get a cricket off his tail that paused a little too long. A couple of times he did jump when one was on his tail, so I think they tried to nip on those occasions, because typically, he will just sit there and literally let them walk all over him. That’s very odd to me.

I don’t know anything about a MVB. Never even heard of them before.

Well, today I’ll need to get a multivitamin, it seems I just want to be sure to get a good one, as I know many of these companies do not provide the correct vitamins for the critters they are geared for. I’m not sure on the whole D3 matter, myself. It’s not a matter of not giving it at all, as far as I can see, but to be careful they don’t get too much, as it can be just as harmful as too little. So, <puzzled look> LOL.

Thanks! Will look into those heat warmers. I definitely want to have those on hand!

The humidity is WAY too high today! I don’t know what is wrong. I was 70% at the end he sleeps at, as per the dial. The digital (at the basking end, but the light was off for the night), was up to 60%! After the light went on, it dropped to 22% at the basking end after 2 hours, and 45% at the cooler end.

I haven’t misted in the viv for 2 days, now.

Last night, I did turn off the A/C as it got rather chilly, and I was afraid it might get too cold in his viv (going to try to find that CHE today. I’m sitting here with a sweater on because of the A/C ATM. LOL. Turned it on when I saw the humidity was so high in the viv, and after his lights were on.

But, I’m going to try to find some sort of dehumidifier gels that are safe around cats (i.e., they cannot get into them).

Also, last night, I put a VERY LIGHT blanket around the tank (but NOT over the top), so that one of our kitties could not bother him at night. I used the blanket to stop the light from coming in. (I have to reply on another thread as someone gave a good idea for a curtain around it.). Plus, I did want to turn the computer back on (I’ll tell that story in a moment). I don’t know what the humidity was during the night, but it is 68% in our home ATM (we don’t have standing water anywhere. Humidity is high where we live for certain times of the year).

His stress marks were dark this AM, after the lights came on, and he woke up. He was in his little bed (but it was LOOSE) all night. I took him out and put him under the light, and pet him for a few minutes under the light. Maybe it was the humidity upon waking? IDK

Last night, when the lights went out in his viv, his stress marks went VERY DARK immediately following. He was upset. So, I did what I said Too cute! (and I’ll have to share this on the other thread).

I picked him up, turned all but a distant light out, wrapped him in a blanket and pet him. He went out like a light! I’ve never seen a critter sleep so soundly! I held him for another 10 minutes. He was SO still, I had to make sure he was breathing. LOL. Took him into a lightly lighted area. He stayed out (and I thought my hubby was a deep sleeper. LOL).

When I lifted the towel (and it’s not a very loopy one), his little claw was stuck. So, I was afraid to leave him in that. I moved him to a little piece of a t-shirt, and wrapped it LIGHTLY around him (I’ll share a pick) and we placed him in his regular sleeping spot. He never moved!

So, I felt MUCH better that he fell asleep happy