Was given a beardie today (you know what's coming)

[oatmeal]

100% critical care should be used over carnivore care at this stage as you dont want to overdose him with vits , critical care keeps everything simple like hydration and also stimulates natural apetite! I wouldnt over do the carnivore care though until you fully no what your dealing with

My dragon was suffering liver disease 3/4 years ago and critical care is what turned him around but it was a very stressful time i had to administer 5mls of critical care everyday for 4 or 5 months seemed never ending but he is still here today so all good, i wouldnt suggest as much as 5ml for you but i would suggest at least a couple of mls until you know whats up as long as he has food in his tummy (criticalcare) then you have a great chance because you will keep his little organs functioning the longer without energy and food at that stage wouldnt be good

Good luck to you both

Thank you for your support and for replying! So your dragon is doing well now? That's awesome What sort of treatment did the vet recommend for liver disease? My understanding is that it can be very tricky to treat :S You must have had a good veterinarian!
I actually have been consulting with a herp rehabber, as the vet I saw on Friday recommended euthanasia that same day... I just couldn't commit to it on the spot (I was alone, and surprised by this, as he had been eating/drinking which I thought was a good sign); took him home and continued treatment according to the rehabber. He's doing much better, and the massive lump turned out to be stool Poor thing! It was such a huge lump. After the poop he has been more active; moves around his terrarium to regulate body temp, and takes food and fluids well much of the time. I've been washing his eyes with sterile saline and coating with a lubricating eye ointment, and now he has no eye gunk and can open both eyes. He can see now, and will (awkwardly) chase a syringe full of baby food around (or anything else that looks edible), and drink water from a dish.

I can't find critical care locally, as the vet who recommended euthanasia was the only herp vet in town and he would not give me any, and all the other vets won't see herps and won't sell critical care without examining the animal first I'm going to make some more phone calls tomorrow to see if I can figure something out. Sounds like critical care is the way to go. I'm making due with baby food and electrolytes, but I think he needs something more complete.. He really loves eating and drinking too. He just doesn't seem like a candidate to be put down. He is pooping, eating, drinking, and moving around. Am I missing something?
Is there any disease that could have caused this, or was it neglect? This whole scenario confuses me. His appetite and improvement make me think he was horribly neglected.. Is this naive optimism on my part? It's been a rough couple of days (working 12+hours with little sleep to look after this guy)

 

[oatmeal]

Oh dear, hope it isn't a mass or a serious issues of any kind. Good luck at the appointment, hope you get some encouraging news.

he was so squirmy I had to wrap him in a towel to flip him over and check out his vent yesterday.

I wanted to mention that beardies don't have diaphragms so it makes it very hard for them to breathe on their backs so it can really stress them out or cause panic when in that position.

That is good that he drank better today. Keep up the good work. We are all pulling for him. Thanks again for giving him a good home with lots of attention & caring.

Oh no! I forgot about the lack of diaphragm, and now I feel very bad for causing him so much distress! Poor thing. No wonder he was so spunky!
The vet ended up recommending euthanasia (that same day!) based on the lump (essentially said if it was a GI thing then he would never pass it, and if it was a liver issue then he was doomed). I declined, as I was alone and upset and surprised. Took him home and he passed the stool the next day after some oral olive oil. :silent: We will see how this goes...
Thank you for your support and kind words. I really appreciate it. It's been really challenging, morally, to care for an animal in this condition.

 

[oatmeal]

Photos from earlier today

The eye chunkie in the last picture has since come off (he kept shaking his head and rubbing his eye on the towel and until it was gone :? Looked very similar to what my other beardies do when they have food on their faces, but in slow motion)

 

[AHBD]

That's wonderful. you're doing a great job with him ! At least you're giving him a chance and so far so good. I think it would be fine to mix a bit of the Carnivore Care with baby food squash and the rest of what you've been syringe feeding him.

It's so nice to see that eye looking healthy, great job on his rehab so far !

 

[CooperDragon]

I agree, the eye is looking much better so far and you've been doing a great job with him =)

 

[diamc]

Wow, what a difference less than a week has made. His eye looks great & is wide open now. So great to see. He is actually holding his head up too. You are doing great.

So good to hear that the questionable mass was actually stool & that he passed it with your help. How awful that the vet didn't even want to give him a chance, so awful for you to hear that & to try to make the right decision on your own.

I'm not sure where you live but I did a search for Critical Care on Amazon and found these items in case you want to take a look. The prices really vary. http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=critical+care+formula+for+reptiles&rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3Acritical+care+formula+for+reptiles

Please be sure to keep us updated. He looks so much happier already.

 

[PogoLover]

All I can say is YAY! He looks fabulous (compared to that first picture). If he seems happy, let him live. I had a rat that had what I think was a stroke and could no longer hold food (she was a really old rat). I hand fed her for her last two months - she would come waddling over when she saw me come in and lick my hand like a dog. She seemed fine and not in pain, so I let her live out her life.

 

[oatmeal]

That's wonderful. you're doing a great job with him ! At least you're giving him a chance and so far so good. I think it would be fine to mix a bit of the Carnivore Care with baby food squash and the rest of what you've been syringe feeding him.

It's so nice to see that eye looking healthy, great job on his rehab so far !

Thank you so much! Like I said, the support and input from you guys has been invaluable. I've also been very lucky to be in contact with an excellent reptile rehabber who has gone above and beyond the call of duty to help me with this guy.
I'm going to make an effort to get the critical care, but until then I'll make due with what I have on hand

 

[oatmeal]

All I can say is YAY! He looks fabulous (compared to that first picture). If he seems happy, let him live. I had a rat that had what I think was a stroke and could no longer hold food (she was a really old rat). I hand fed her for her last two months - she would come waddling over when she saw me come in and lick my hand like a dog. She seemed fine and not in pain, so I let her live out her life.

Oh rat baby! I love rats, and have wanted one for years, but their short life spans make me nervous! How old was this rat that you had? Good for you for taking care of her! I would do the same for any of my pets As long as they are pain free and have good quality of life then it's the owner's job to take care of them I think

 

[oatmeal]

Wow, what a difference less than a week has made. His eye looks great & is wide open now. So great to see. He is actually holding his head up too. You are doing great.

So good to hear that the questionable mass was actually stool & that he passed it with your help. How awful that the vet didn't even want to give him a chance, so awful for you to hear that & to try to make the right decision on your own.

I'm not sure where you live but I did a search for Critical Care on Amazon and found these items in case you want to take a look. The prices really vary. http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=critical+care+formula+for+reptiles&rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3Acritical+care+formula+for+reptiles

Please be sure to keep us updated. He looks so much happier already.

Apparently I live in an area where it's very hard to find fairly benign veterinary products lol! I'm going to try going back to the vet that initially declined sending me home with critical care.. hopefully they will be of the opinion that it might be worth a try now that he's showing improvement. If not, I called the vet where we take our dogs, and they said they could order it in for us. I'd prefer not to order online, as shipping can be quite a bit in Canada (depending on where it's coming from), and I've this beardie was a surprise to me and my bank account! Thank you though I honestly.. didn't think to check amazon lol!

Here is a video we got of him Sunday morning:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZQz8KmKjgU

He's like that a few times a day, but I think being so active wears him out, as he sleeps most of the time.

Hopefully things will continue to improve! I'm a bit nervous though. With people you sometimes see an upswing right before someone passes away, so I'm trying hard not to get too excited or attached. That being said, we've started calling him Lazarus (kind of appropriate, and hopefully not offensive) lol

 

[AHBD]

That's great, he does look as if he's eager to eat. Hopefully he doesn't take that sudden dive that you mentioned [ seemingly improving, then dying ] Keep offering extra water mixed in there, that's very important. He actually doesn't look too emaciated in that video but has definitely suffered some other kind of neglect and he may be a very old dragon as well [ eating, sleeping ] Be sure to keep him in the heat mostly , especially after his meals. A basking temp. of 97-100 should be fine.

 

[Fellowdt23]

It honestly sounds and looks to me like your are on the right road id just keeps doing what your doing but possibly try some live foods? Unless you already have?

From the pictures and the hunger you state he has its time to try feed him up if you ask me, possibly in the condition hes in due to being unable to poo and maybe a little impaction which has now been moved!

Have a look online see if you can order some vetark critical care and just keep doing what you are doing hunger is the first sign your dragon is on the mend

As for the liver disease yeah it was and it wasnt easy, the process is quite simple 5ml of critical care a day 4 parts water a day for 2 weeks or until signs of hunger show then every other day for months the trick for liver disease is to have them a full stomach at all times and to not let the liver rest took about a year for normality to resume that was 3 years ago, i sometimes worry it will relapse but so far so good i still supplement with liver supplement and vitamine E
My vet told me its pretty simple with dragons actually if you can entice hunger your winning my dragon hadnt eaten for months before apart from syringe feeding

Any sign of mucus? Or breathing difficulties?
If not feed him up with some live foods its the only way he will put some significant weight on glad hes doing bettef though

 

[PogoLover]

Oh rat baby! I love rats, and have wanted one for years, but their short life spans make me nervous! How old was this rat that you had? Good for you for taking care of her! I would do the same for any of my pets As long as they are pain free and have good quality of life then it's the owner's job to take care of them I think

Rats live 18 months to three years generally (two years is probably "normal"). The one in my story lived to be a little of over two. I had two that lived to be a little over three. The rest died younger closer to one year to 18 months (bad genetics, I think). So, you are correct - BAD life spans even at the longest. Rats are like beardies in that they can have very different personalities - maybe more like cats - some rats love their people and are friendly and happy; other rats (even tame ones) are much more aloof and less people-oriented. I love rats too - but after my last rat died, I switched to Pogo - my first beardie! When you have a bunch of rats, there is a constant death watch due to the short life span and it got too depressing. Now that Pogo has made it through my death watch with her (stressed out anorexic baby a couple of months ago), hopefully she will live much longer than any of my rats!!!

 

[diamc]

He looked so adorable in the video. Definitely has a good appetite but best to go easy on the protein intake at this point, wouldn't want to overtax his system. Main things are to keep him very well hydrated and to feed him soft foods that he can digest and pass easily. You could add a little chicken or turkey baby food to the squash if you wanted to try that. Would suggest a smaller amount of the meat to a larger portion of squash. Make sure the mixture isn't too thick though so it goes down easily.

You're doing an awesome job. Hope he continues to improve for you daily.

 

[oatmeal]

Thank you, l for your encouragement! I don't know if I mentioned this, but the day I got him he weighed 130g and yesterday was 180g :s poor guy! He does look better and gained some weight.. Not unlike soaking a piece of dried fruit in a bowl of warm water. Looking at all the photos I got of him the first day I'm seeing all these differences: his "lips" were tight and dry the first day: the area around his vent was pulled taught, exposing some flesh... I know he still looks rough, but even the small improvements are worth celebrating . And thank you all for cheering him on! It's wonderful!