Vet confounded - desperate for help!

[MartinDickson]

Hi there, thanks for having a look. If you can offer any advice or help we will be very grateful. We have two bearded dragons that live in the same vivarium; one of the two is sick and hasn't eaten for some time. We have been to the vests twice and they cant diagnose the problem.

Basically he has large hard masses growing around the base of his tail and back. When they come off the are spongelike in structure. They are very hard when dry and become a little softer when he's has a bath. They are growing and spreading all the time; it almost like he has skin cancer.

Here is a gallery with some images of the problem: http://s1170.photobucket.com/albums/r538/JoandMartin_Dickson/

We would be so grateful of any advice.

Many thanks,

Martin

<div style="width:480px;text-align:right;"><embed width="480" height="360" src="http://static.pbsrc.com/flash/rss_slideshow.swf" flashvars="rssFeed=http%3A%2F%2Ffeed1170.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fr538%2FJoandMartin_Dickson%2Ffeed.rss" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" /><a href="http://photobucket.com/redirect/album?showShareLB=1" target="_blank"><img src="http://pic.photobucket.com/share/icons/embed/btn_geturs.gif" style="border:none;" /></a><a href="http://s1170.photobucket.com/albums/r538/JoandMartin_Dickson/" target="_blank"><img src="http://pic.photobucket.com/share/icons/embed/btn_viewall.gif" style="border:none;" /></a></div>

 

[Irwinshealth]

OMG, This is terrible! What is the vet doing for him already? Is your vet a reptile specialist? I really suggest you PM (personal message) someone with some more experience here. There are a list of moderators that should be able to help. Has he been able to tolerate bathing? Did the vet mention possible fungus? Please PM someone with more experience right away and I will keep this little one in my prayers. A run down of your set up can be very helpful, so I would have that information ready. Also is your other beardie showing any signs of this? Please keep us posted as we will all keep you in our thoughts

 

[munchkins9802]

Hi! First things first, never house 2 beardies together, they will have domination issues and one won't usually eat. Separate them as soon as possible
The other thing, I am no medical expert maybe Tracie (Drache613) will be on later, but that looks like a bunch of little things, but one of the things look like it could be yellow fungus. Other items look like dried up urine or poop on his bottom.

Can you answer the following about your setup:
What is the substrate (all loose substrate not only causes impaction but is actually unhealthy for bearded dragons) on the bottom of their cage
Do you have a UVB bulb, if so what brand and type (coil, tube, compact)
Do you have a bright white basking light.
What are the temperatures on the basking SURFACE, the cool side and the hot side?
How are you taking the temps (dial, strip, or digital?)
What exactly are you feeding your dragons
How long have you had your dragons and how old are they?

 

[Irwinshealth]

I did a PM already to Drach 613 on your behalf. Meanwhile, lets see if we can get a start. Give us all the information u can. Bathing? How often? Set-up? What meds has the vet given? Are you putting anything in the bath water for relief?

 

[munchkins9802]

Irwins health--we must have been posting at the same time. See if I forgot any questions

I know one I forgot for the original poster was

How often do you bath
is he getting feeders dusted with calcium?

 

[Irwinshealth]

munchskin9802, HELLO! I think we were. I'm not real good but I figure anything is better than nothing. Good minds think alike. At least the info will be here when more people are ready to chime in.

 

[MartinDickson]

Huge thanks for the quick response. Here are the answers to the questions you folks have asked:

What is the substrate: We started with Calici sand as suggested by the pet shop but have since changed to walnut sand based on advice from our vet who is a reptile specialist.
Do you have a UVB bulb, if so what brand and type (coil, tube, compact): We have a tube UVB.
Do you have a bright white basking light: Yes
What are the temperatures on the basking SURFACE, the cool side and the hot side?: The ambient temp is always between 35 and 40 Celsius at the hot end and 20-30 Celsius at the cool end.
How are you taking the temps (dial, strip, or digital?): Dials at either end of the viv
What exactly are you feeding your dragons: Locus and occasion gut loaded meal worms.
How long have you had your dragons and how old are they?: Since Christmas; they came as a pair and they were a couple of months old when we got them.
How often do you bath: Weekly with iodine drops from the vet in the water.
is he getting feeders dusted with calcium: Yes
What meds has the vet given? Silver nitrate cream and a vitamin shot

 

[MartinDickson]

Sorry , forgot to say that the other dragon is not affected by the condition at all.

 

[Irwinshealth]

We have a tube UVB.

What type? Arcadia and Reptisun 10.0 are the recommended

Do you have a bright white basking light: Yes

Great!!!
What are the temperatures on the basking SURFACE, the cool side and the hot side?:

The ambient temp is always between 35 and 40 Celsius at the hot end and 20-30 Celsius at the cool end.

If I did my conversion right this seems good!
How are you taking the temps (dial, strip, or digital?):

Dials at either end of the viv

I prefer digital because it seems to be very acurate
What exactly are you feeding your dragons:

Locus and occasion gut loaded meal worms.

Locusts, cool! mealworms,toss
How long have you had your dragons and how old are they?:

Since Christmas; they came as a pair and they were a couple of months old when we got them.

Time to separate them, before someone gets hurt
How often do you bath:

Weekly with iodine drops from the vet in the water.

Good maybe someone will have more info on that as I am clueless and only want to help but not full you with bull

is he getting feeders dusted with calcium: Yes

Good how bout vitamins?
What meds has the vet given?

Silver nitrate cream and a vitamin shot

Good info, This will help others tremendously to have this information available.

Please note I commented slight changes that may help you with your husbandry as you go along however, I am unable to help with the medical part. I'm sure some more will chime in later today. I give my boys bath three times a week sometimes more, however with yours having a condition I was unable to say how often you should.

 

[bdalton]

This looks like an extreme case of yellow fungus. Cream and vitamin shots are not going to help, I believe he needs an oral anti fungal. I would suggest taking him to be seen by another qualified herp vet, especially since the one told you to switch to walnut shells and didn't tell you to separate your beardies. Walnut shells are just going to irritate it more. I would separate them an out down paper towels. If this is yellow fungus it's extremely contagious and you don't want your other to get it. Is the other one showing and yellow on him?
When tracie (drache613) comes along she will be able to tell you exactly what you need, but in the meantime separate and put down a substrate that isn't going to get in and irritate.
How long has this been going on?
I highly reccomend seeing another reptile vet, did yours mention yellow fungus at all?

 

[AHBD]

Hi there....poor little dragon ! That looks like severe yellow fungus. If not the yellow, it is another type. He will be helped by bathing in a betadine+ water solution, mixed to look like weak tea. Be sure he doesn't drink it [ give him a drink first ] and be sure the bathing water is fairly warm. Pat him dry, put him back in warm tank right away.Then you can apply Monistat or Lotrimin cream. Get him off any loose sustrate immediately, walnut is one of the worst for impaction, and with a dragon with sores on his body, loose substrate will aggravate it. Use newspaper while he is ill, it can be changed frequently. Separate the dragons ASAP, this is contagious ! Many vets aren't up on all the latest about this type of condition. EDIT...Oooops posted same time as Bdalton, but same conclusion. Be aware that any oral anti- fungal meds. are very harsh,and antibiotics are not recommended for this condition.

 

[munchkins9802]

Hello also get rid of the dial temps./ We also need to know the BASKING SURFACE temps not just the ambient temps

Trash the walnut sand, it is irritating is problem as it is. Separate them both immediately. If this vet is a reptile specialist, he is not very good at what he does. To say to replace one loose substrate with another--no. Locausts--great as long as not BIGGER than space between their eyes.
Mealworms--cause of impaction (as well as the sand)

Hopefully one of the mods can come on here later and help. remember all of us on here speak from experience and care about the dragons

Also WHAT BRAND TUBE UVB bulb do you have (yes this IS important)

If they were aabout 2months old at christmas and it is now may they are only 7 months old and should be getting feeders every day (1 feeding a day should have calcium dusted feeders, the other just as it is)

 

[dragonlover3]

Hi,
OMG, that poor little dragon! I'm going out on a limb and say that vet is NOT an experienced reptile vet at all regardless of what he claims.

The yellowed patchy areas along with the darker brownish/black lesions indicate yellow fungus and it looks quite severe. How long has that been growing and spreading like that? I can't speak to the growing hard masses that fall off.

First, protect your little dragon and lay an old towel or some kind of large material that will completely cover over the top of that walnut trash til you can dump it tomorrow. It's harboring residual waste and fungus spores. The material will be more comfortable for him to lay on with those lesions he has. It's not good to put any dragons on any loose substrates! After you dump it the enclosure needs a thorough cleaning with chlorhexidine solution. You can buy it at most pharmacies. It's called Hibiclens. Then paper towels will be good to use as substrate while he's being treated as they are disposable.

Separate the dragons ASAP, they are solitary creatures and prefer to live alone, and one is sick. Most probably the other is too. Both will need treatment, but separately.

Many others will pop in to help. There are treatments you can do topically and as another member said it looks so severe he will probably need an oral anti fungal, they can be very harsh on their systems. You will bne getting lots of good advice.
Also Tracie, user name Drache613 is one of the resident experts here and she will be able to help too
Amanda

 

[MartinDickson]

Thanks for all the help folks; very much appreciated!

This started with small dark black patch on his back about 2 months ago and has got progressively worse. We have taken him to the vets twice but the fact that he is no longer eating has prompted this call for help.

Given that he has had it two months, and the fact the pair spend quite a bit of time lying on top of each other, can it be Yellow Fungus? The other dragon shows absolutely no signs and from what I can see Yellow Fungus is highly contagious.

 

[Irwinshealth]

It could still be yellow fungus but the other is not displaying signs. I would really treat them both. Hang in there, this will all work out.