Very worried, dragon rolling over, distressed

[idlehands]

Hi I`m very worried about a new baby dragon i got a couple of days ago.

Just a few moments ago she started tipping her head to the side, and then rolling over and over. She seemed very distressed.

I have been stroking her head softly to try and calm her down, gave her some water, turned her lights off and opened the doors for fresh air.

She has calmed down now and stopped rolling.

I`m very worried though what was wrong with her?
Has anyone ever seen this before?

Thanks

 

[Fogles]

Could you answer a few of the following questions.

How old is your dragon?
How long have you had your dragon?
How long is your dragon?
What is the sex of your dragon?
What size enclosure do you have your dragon in?
What type substrate do you have on the bottom of your tank?
Do you use UVB lights?
If so, Is it a coil, compact, fluorescent tube, or Mercury Vapor bulb?
What is the brand name and number of your bulb? Wattage (if MVB)?
How old is your UVB bulb?
How close can your dragon get to the UVB?
Do you use a separate basking bulb?
What are the basking temps?
What is the cool side temp?
Do you take the temps with a stick on thermometer, a digital thermometer with a wire and a probe end or a temp gun?
Where exactly are you taking your basking temps?
Do you use a heat rock or heat pad? Nope.
What do you feed your dragon?
How often do you feed and what time do you feed (morning, afternoon, night)?
Do you gutload (feed) your crickets, worms, etc?
Do you use vitamin or calcium supplements? What brand(s)?
Is your dragon having regular bowel movements (poops)?
Do you bath your dragon? How often?
Do you mist your dragon or offer water other than in the bath?
Does your dragon share an enclosure with another dragon?
Have you gotten a vet check and fecal done?

 

[idlehands]

How old is your dragon? 6 months?
How long have you had your dragon? 2 days
How long is your dragon? Approx 7 inches
What is the sex of your dragon? Female
What size enclosure do you have your dragon in? 4 foot
What type substrate do you have on the bottom of your tank? Paper
Do you use UVB lights? Yeas
If so, Is it a coil, compact, fluorescent tube, or Mercury Vapor bulb? See bottom
What is the brand name and number of your bulb? Wattage (if MVB)? See bottom
How old is your UVB bulb? See bottom
How close can your dragon get to the UVB? See bottom
Do you use a separate basking bulb? See bottom
What are the basking temps? see bottom
What is the cool side temp? 85
Do you take the temps with a stick on thermometer, a digital thermometer with a wire and a probe end or a temp gun? Digital thermometer
Where exactly are you taking your basking temps? Various
Do you use a heat rock or heat pad? Nope. No
What do you feed your dragon? So far crickets
How often do you feed and what time do you feed (morning, afternoon, night)? Morning, afternoon
Do you gutload (feed) your crickets, worms, etc? Yes
Do you use vitamin or calcium supplements? What brand(s)? Nutrubol every 2-3 days
Is your dragon having regular bowel movements (poops)? Yes
Do you bath your dragon? How often? Not yet
Do you mist your dragon or offer water other than in the bath? No
Does your dragon share an enclosure with another dragon? No
Have you gotten a vet check and fecal done? Not with this dragon



All of my other dragons have a reptisun 10.0 fluorescent tube, and a normal household bulb for basking. And this it what the dragon had until this afternoon.

But I thought I would try a Megaray 100w self ballasted bulb with this dragon. Which arrived today.

I rigged it up 12 inches away from the ground and had it on for only about one hour while monitoring temps. The temp directly under the bulb had risen to 120f which i know is too hot. So I was about to raise it high to lower temps when the dragon started this worrying behavior. Although she had n`t been sitting directly under it at all.

I was wondering whether it could have been a heat stroke? Would this cause long term damage if so?

Also she had eaten a couple of stray crickets not long before, could it be connected to that? Maybe she had n`t killed them properly?

All her lights are off now and she`s sleeping in the corner.

 

[beardie parents]

I'm not sure what the problem is. This is probably a Tracie question. I do know that your husbandry seems good. I hadn't noticed anything wrong in that aspect. The fact that you've only had him for 2 days says that it's possible that something possibly was wrong in his care before you got him. Tracie's screen name is drache613 (in case you didn't know). I suggest pming her. She'll probably have other questions for you to help her figure out things.

 

[Fogles]

Your husbandry seems good. I've seen dragons have this "rolling over" problem. They had physolocigal issues. Let tracie know about your problem. She knows alot.

 

[idlehands]

Thanks for the help guys, I`ll try pm `ing her.

She seemed perfectly fine up until this happened was eating well and had settled in nicely.

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

A few things can cause rolling & head tilting like that.
Bacterial or viral infections, head trauma, dehydration, & hypocalcemia are the main culprits.
You have only had her for 2 days so I don't see how anything that you did could have caused this so quickly.
The crickets, you said they were wild caught? That is not a good idea to feed wild caught crickets because you don't know whether or not they have come into contact with any toxins or bacteria outdoors.
Did she actually sit underneath the Megaray? If not, it probably is not overheating or stroke.
I would let the Megaray burn in for at least 8-12 hours just to let it settle in & the temps adjust themselves also after a period of time too & it doesn't burn quite as hot, either after that time frame.

Have you tried bathing her to see if that helps her out right now? Let us know how she is doing.

Tracie

 

[idlehands]

She did n`t sit directly under the bulb although she did spend some time fairly near it.
The crickets were bought at a shop by the way. I`ll try bathing her tomorrow, really hoping she is ok in the morning.

I was wondering if 7 inches sounds right for a 6month old, also she is very thin.

Could me changing her light bulb setup have stressed her and contributed somehow?

Thanks a lot for the help.

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

Good to know you did not feed wild crickets. Stray crickets meaning ones left in her tank?
Did the breeder tell you that your dragon is 6 month & 7 inches? Did you get her from a breeder or the petstore?
That is quite small though for 6 months. She should be more like 12-14 inches in length instead.
Do you know if they kept her under any UVB light at all prior to you getting her?
I don't think her sitting around the light for a short amount of time would have caused that. If she is that thin however, she obviously is in need of some weight & rehydration.
I would definitely try to get her rehydrated tomorrow & try to get her to eat more as well. How do her eyes look, are they sunken in or are they bright?
Can you post a picture of her? Let me know how she is doing in the morning.

Tracie

 

[idlehands]

Hi,

I got her from a pet shop but he had also bred her himself. The dragon was sent by a courier and I`ve never been to the shop although it has a good reputation.

She seemed fine this morning, and I`ve put a normal household bulb back in the viv for now. The temp at the basking spot is 95f at the moment. I tried giving her some drops of water in the morning but she would n`t take any.

Then about half an hour ago I fed her some small crickets lightly dusted in nutrobal.

She was very active chasing them and ate 9. Then immediately after she finished it began again.

Tipping her head to the side and what looked like involuntary movements, then rolling over with her head leading as if she had pain there. This only lasted for 2-3 minutes and she seems OK again now.

I phoned the chap I got her off, and explained what she was doing. He thought it was an ear infection and she would get over it in a couple days. Said he`d seen it before.

I was wondering as she is so thin, whether the crickets she has eaten are some how pinching a nerve or similar? As it has happened after feeding. Also the local pet shop sells a medicine possibly called "revitalite", that is suppose to help hydrate sick reptiles maybe I should try it?

This is her with her head to the side, after the worst of her "fit" this afternoon:

And this is her now, looking better again :

Thank you for your help by the way, I really appreciate it. I`m very worried about her.

 

[idlehands]

Sorry forgot to mention she is actual around 9 inches, made a mistake there.

 

[beckygates]

When giving a measurement for a dragon do you include the tail?

Becky

 

[idlehands]

Yes including tail.

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

They are not usually prone to getting ear infections, but it could happen. Maybe some water got in the ear or the membrane could have gotten punctured somehow prior to now & bacteria got inside. More likely what is going on would be the membranes in the ear are too dry, causing equibrium problems.
What is the humidity in the tank?
Did the breeder keep her under a UVB light or give her calcium supplementation? She is still very small for a dragon of 6 months or so. He obviously did not take real good care of her as she did not grow like she should have.
The nutrabol is ok, but, you need a straight calcium powder to use 5 days per week. Since I see you are in the UK, try looking for Calypso calcium or Miner-All either one is fine. The nutrabol has vitamins in it & if given too frequently, she could get a vitamin A toxicity, & it doesn't have enough calcium in it.
Can she fully support herself on all fours?
It is either going to be dehydration, a nutritional deficiency, or hypocalcemia.
The only way the crickets would pinch a nerve would be if they were too large for her. The size rule for crickets are no larger than the space of the eye, to avoid impaction.

Let us know how she is doing.

Tracie

 

[idlehands]

Hi,

I`m not sure what the humidity is, she has a bowl at the cool end with a small amount of water in.

I`ll try asking the breeder about UV, calcium. I`ll have a look for the calcium powder tomorrow.

She normally moves fine, does n`t appear to have any problems. She is very quick catching the crickets, like a little rocket. It`s just twice now after eating that this problem suddenly has occurred.

I bought her some very small locusts this afternoon, and gave her 4. She chased them around fine and ate them, thankfully the problem did n`t happen this time.

If the problem is dehydration, nutritional deficiency, or hypocalcemia, would she be so bright and lively hunting? Is it possible the crickets caused her problem? Or is at a coincidence that it has occurred after eating?

Would you advise I try bathing her, or would this be to stressful as she`s new here?

Thanks