Very very underweight bearded dragon

[djdobro]

About 2 months ago I took a bearded dragon (2 years old) from the previous "care taker" as it was way too skinny, dehydrated and didn't want to eat. The animal wasn't thought to eat veggies and wasn't given food very often. It weighed 145grams and hasn't changed weight since. His hip bones are seeable... check the pictures below
I took the animal to the vet the second day i had him, although not specialized as there aren't any around. He said that the animal doesn't have any visible illnesses, didn't feel impaction and should be just underfed. I personally haven't seen signs of MBD, no shivering or difficulty standing and walking.
One week ago after feeding superworms, the poop from them had a little blood and half an undigested worm. I used that for a fecal test to check for parasites and it turned out negative, but just to make sure the vet gave me a white, bit thick medicine, that he said shouldn't harm the beardie. I couldn't remember the name but if it helps it was 35mg, 3 doses and it was also used on larger animals to treat parasites. Haven't notice any improvements.
Now at home I have been keeping the beardie at 41 C (106F), on kitchen paper, small water dish for some humidity, baths about 2-3 times a week and daily veggies (romaine lettuce and turnip tops) dusted with some Accidophilus probiotic. Usually he doesn't eat a lot but poops everyday. In the start the dragon had some appetite for bugs, but a lot less nowadays. I also tried a recipe that increased appetite for many others but sadly not in this case: Chicken meat, royal jelly, bee pollen, acidophilus and squash puree

2weeks before I got him:




Now:

 

[AHBD]

Hi there....poor guy has been going downhill, he may have undetected illness, kidney/liver problems etc. I don't know why these vets foolishly prescribe powerful meds. to a dragon that has no parasite.....it's like a Dr. just putting you on an antibiotic when you don't have any infection. Anyway, that may have hastened his decline. And you say the vet gave you 35 ml.'s ? Was it Panacur or Flagyl ? That's insanely high dose, unless it was a typo.

So does he willingly eat from a syringe ? If so, add plenty of water to whatever you give him, but ask the vet for Oxbow critical care supplement. It's a highly nutritious supplement and is better than most other baby food or supplements. The mixture you were giving him sounded pretty good, but chicken isn't too good for beardies. Try making smoothies with different veggies , a bit of raw [ unpasteurized ] honey and/or a bit of sugar free fruit juice or strawberries/raspberries to make it tasty. Add bugs to it if you have an extra blender that you don't mind using for insects. Superworms will be a bit too rich + too tough for him, but maybe once he gets those meds. out of his system you can try smaller supers, crickets, dubia, silkworms, hornworms.

Just keep offering as much water as you can to flush him out, hopefully he'll bounce back but he doesn't look good, if you can find an experienced reptile vet it may help but I would not go back to the other vet.

 

[AustinnKaine]

If the vet said his stool tested negative for parasites I would not be administering parasite medication. That is only going to decrease his appetite, and kill off good bacteria in his system.

 

[djdobro]

Almost certain its 35ml (typo on 35mg), although the syringe has "units" instead of a measuring unit. I do remember that the medicine started with an F but was a longer word, I could ask the vet. This is how the syringe was filled:

Most definitely doesn't willing eat from a syringe. I have to open his mouth, as gentle as i can ofcourse, to feed him with a syringe. At least he would willingly drink if i dab water on his nose or while bathing.
I am from Bulgaria so i am not sure if anyone around will have Oxbow. Supply of specific animal supplements and a such tends to be a hard find, but i'll check. Same goes for the mainstream bearded dragon staple veggies, like collards and mustard greens. That's why I am using romaine lettuce, turnip tops and dandelions, from my garden, as a staple. Also how much honey should i use. I know for crested geckos it should be a very, very small amount, just to get them eating.
The only veterinarians specialized in reptiles I know of, are in the capital...

 

[AHBD]

As long as he'll drink, give him water every day, and yes, just a few large drops of honey to hopefully get him to willingly take some food. The greens you are giving him are fine so keep that up as well along with a probiotic + a little tiny bit of bee pollen....but honey has some of the same properties of course. You can discontinue the meds., as was mentioned they can ruin his appetite. I hope he can regain his health....you're doing a great job with what you have.

What type of lighting do you have for him ?

 

[djdobro]

The meds were only 3 doses that i had to give one per day for 3 days straight.
There is an ordinary lamp for heat, ceramic heater if the temps go low, like during the cold nights and a 10.0 exo terra UVB.
41c day temp
25c night temp

 

[AustinnKaine]

I don't understand why he prescribed medicine for parasites when he came up negative for them.

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

I am sorry he is not gaining any weight.
I think you are meaning .35mls? You mentioned it started with an F, which could have been Flagyl.
How much do you feed him via the syringe? At this rate, if you can, try to give multiple feedings for him daily to help him digest it better. He is very dehydrated so oral fluids are very important. I know it's hard to get him to drink but keep trying. You could try also to get a very shallow plastic dish of water, drip water onto the water in the dish then swirl it around to see if he will drink on his own that way also.
I agree, it could be a kidney or liver issue, since he has not gained any weight.
Are you using a long tube bulb, the Reptiglo 10? Can you get the Arcadia D3 12% tube bulb there?
How often do you use calcium supplementation for him?

Let us know how he is doing.

Tracie

 

[djdobro]

Yeah, .35mls, didn't realise the quantity.
Generally i don't feed by syringe as the animal just doesn't want to cooperate, and causes his more harm than good imo.
I tried to feed a bit of apple and honey, today. Force feed essentially, but the beardie kept his mouth shut. The little i could give him, wasn't appreciated either, moved his head away. It's wasn't very different compared to previous times I had tried. That's why I am very reluctant to force feed.
Yep the bulb is reptiglo 10.0. I did find Acardia D3 tubes, but only 10%.
Since he is doesn't have a big appetite for bugs (roaches and supers), he doesn't get the opportunity for calcium. Have been wary giving him insects after the bloody poop as well. Maybe I should start dusting the veggies?

 

[djdobro]

Forgot to add. The beardie also glass surfs and "burrows" in the corner of the terrarium, in the mornings. Mostly on weekends for some reason. My Boa usually does glass surfing when she is hungry, but i have yet to see this guy clean a plate or even go for the food when I place in the terrarium.

 

[AHBD]

It would be good to dust the veggies if that's what he's eating....and go ahead + offer a few superworms, 2-3 a day if he'l eat them. If you have fesh shed ones that would be best, but give him some regardless.

Apple isn't a good foo for beardies, but the veggies you're offering are fine. Are there any other insects you can get ?

 

[djdobro]

I have my small mealworm colony and some large cave roaches. People around here do sell mealworms, crickets, locusts, supers, dubias, silkies, phoenix (calci) worms, there might be butterworms as well.

 

[syoung27]

You're getting great help especially from Tracie. I just wanted to jump in and say stop the meal worms. A couple to get it interested in eating would be okay, but for his size and health I fear they could do more harm than good. They are very fatty with little to no nutrients and generally have a hard shell making them harder to digest especially for an unhealthy beardie.
best of luck, I'll be sure to follow up on this guy. Hope you can get it back to good health!

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

Great, I am glad it was just .35ml then! Did you give him all of the meds now so is he done with them all?
It can definitely be stressful for them to syringe feed them. Will he not lick any food off of the end of his nose at all?
Do try dusting his insects to make sure he gets calcium. The Arcadia D3 10% tube bulb would be fine as well, it is stronger & higher quality than the Reptiglo 10 is. You can get that one?
How is he doing today?

Tracie

 

[djdobro]

The meds finished last week. I have tried the on nose food but he doesn't budge. Heck i even placed a small piece of food (lettuce?) on his nose once and he climbed his foam background without dropping it.
The only Acardia D3 10% bulbs I found were way too long for my terrarium, 105cm, while my mount is for a 60cm one.
I gave him one super before i read what syoung27 said, which he atleast ate with appetite. Didn't want any other. I placed some turnip tops with calcium + d3 and accydophilus probiotic in his dish aaaand the only attention they are getting are from the dragon's butt, he is currently "sitting" on them.
Also woke me up with some more glass surfing, that means the weekend is coming.