Update: Sad news

[dolcedragon]

The past couple of days Anastasia has been acting like eating bothers her. After a bite she tilts her head back, puffs her beard, and blackens. She has also been drinking a lot of water, so much so that I have to make her stop or she'll drink until her beard is full and water is leaking out of her mouth.

I took her to the vet today and was told it may be the beginning of a URI and was given Baytril drops- 0.03ml once a day for 14 days. I haven't started her on the medicine yet. The vet also said she had arthritis, which I knew, and that Anastasia was plenty hydrated and otherwise healthy. I asked what caused the URI and the Dr. said Vitamin A deficiency or a dirty viv can be causes.

My questions are:
Should I give a probiotic along with the Baytril?
Should I give the full 14 days even if she shows signs of getting better/worse?
Any idea why she loves drinking water so much if she's well hydrated?
I use Green Works cleaner for the vivs; is that not killing the bacteria?
I use Rep-Cal calcium supplements and a multivitamin that doesn't have Vitamin A in it... Should I be giving a multivitamin with Vitamin A?
Is there anything I can do to make her more comfortable, happier, healthier during a URI?

I know that's a lot, but I'll appreciate any info anyone can give me as my beardies have never had URIs before and I assumed there would be coughing, gasping, or mucous.

Some background on Anastasia:
She is about nine years old. She was rescued Jan. 2009 from terrible conditions, had retained shed and MBD. If it weren't for the help of this site I know she wouldn't have made it this long! I try to follow all the husbandry advice here- new good lights, temp gun checks, bathing, fecals, substrate, etc. If you need more specific info, let me know. Thanks!

 

[dolcedragon]

I gave her the Baytril, but I'm getting really concerned. She went to her bowl like she was hungry so I gave her one of her favorite treats- a small piece of banana. She black bearded after eating it and a couple minutes later shook her head and out came the food. I called the vet but they are closed for the day. Her not eating makes this much more serious. What should I do? Baby food, what?

 

[AHBD]

Hi there, I'm sorry to hear of Anastasia's problems ! I can see why you're concerned . Well, it's not definite that she has a R.I., there may be something else causing her symptoms. Does she breathe heavily at all or cough + puff out her beard at other times ? If you continue the Baytril [ you might want to stop since the vomiting ] you will definitely want a probiotic like Benebac or Acidophiliz+ to help settle her stomach + replace the gut flora. It may be best to have a blood panel done to see if she's having liver/kidney problems since she is so thirsty. If you p.m. Drache613 [ Tracie , one of the mods. ] she may have more insight. I hope the best outcome for your girl !

 

[dolcedragon]

Hi there, I'm sorry to hear of Anastasia's problems ! I can see why you're concerned . Well, it's not definite that she has a R.I., there may be something else causing her symptoms. Does she breathe heavily at all or cough + puff out her beard at other times ? If you continue the Baytril [ you might want to stop since the vomiting ] you will definitely want a probiotic like Benebac or Acidophiliz+ to help settle her stomach + replace the gut flora. It may be best to have a blood panel done to see if she's having liver/kidney problems since she is so thirsty. If you p.m. Drache613 [ Tracie , one of the mods. ] she may have more insight. I hope the best outcome for your girl !

Thank you for the reply. She doesn't seem to be breathing harder than usual. Most of the time she acts ok. It's when she eats that she starts the gulping and puffing. Today was the first time she regurgitated her food but there was spittle on her lips yesterday. After she spat out her food she basked with her head propped up and would occasionally gulp or inhale hard, but I didn't hear anything. She has settled down now and her color has returned to normal, but I imagine she's hungry.
I'm not sure where to get Benebac or Acidophiliz or how much to give, but I will do some googling.

 

[AHBD]

You can get them from the same mod. that I mentioned [ Drache613 ] Her website is www.bug-de-lite.com

 

[dolcedragon]

Thank you, AHBD. I didn't know Tracie had a site.

The vet said a blood panel could only really tell us about a problem that we couldn't treat. I don't know how accurate that is, but she is the only vet with any specialization in reptiles in the area. It bothered me that she didn't open Stasia's mouth and check for blockage. I suppose I could try to do that myself if I had a small flashlight or something. I just don't want to hurt my girl.

She pottied this morning and it was runny, watery.

I read that higher temperatures could help with URI so I moved the lamp a bit. Stasia isn't sitting on her log like she used to, which would put her at an incline. Instead she is just laying flat on the floor of the warmest part with her head propped on a pillow.

She seems ok right now, but I know the second I feed her or give her the Baytril there will be gulping and head thrashing and blackening. I'm really dreading it as I feel like I'm hurting her, but I know she needs to eat.

I think I should add that yesterday I saw her put the banana in her mouth, then she started the mouth opening and closing as usual after food so I thought it would be a good opportunity to sneak the syringe into the side of her mouth to give her the Baytril. By the time I got the bottle, opened it, measured it, and got out the air bubbles, she had moved away from her dish. It was after the med that she shook her head really hard, spit bubbles showed up on her lips and then out came the banana. Not sure if that qualifies as vomiting or not? I don't understand why the food was still in her mouth a few minutes after it went in. I mean, I know they hold food in their beard sometimes, but this was the only thing that went in her mouth all day. She had to be hungry. Why not swallow it?

I am just feeling overwhelmed right now. I'm worried about my beardie and I don't know what to do. What to feed, whether to stop the medicine, bath or misting or not, handling her for comfort or leaving her in her viv so she stays warm??? I've lost two beardies in the past and though everyone told me I did everything I could, all I could think about was 'what if'. I want to do everything right and I don't want to lose her!

 

[AHBD]

I have a couple of suggestions....since she is 9 yrs.old [ that's getting into their senior years ! ] you really want everything as stress free as possible. An X-ray of her lungs could determine if there truly is an R.I....you don't want to give dreaded meds. if it's not certain about the diagnosis. I have had a few dragons in the past 20 years who had R.I's that never choked on their food and ate very well....so that is not truly a symptom. I CAN see why the vet would presume that there MAY be an R.I. That being said, is the Baytril going to hurt more than help if she thrashes + stresses and throws it out of her mouth ? For now you might just go with bumping up the temps. 4-5 degrees as you have done [ at night as well ] and just offer very small bits of food to keep choking at a minimum. If she would willingly take baby food, a slurry [ blend up bugs, greens, etc. ] then that may be an option. Your vet may also carry a high calorie food supplement called " Critical Care " but it would still be good to blend some greens for her since they are good for the liver. See how she does with a few adjustments in her feeding routine, without the Baytril....unless there is a way to disguise it in some yummy blended food. But again....she may not definitely have an R.I

Someone else may have other suggestions....hoping for a good outcome !

 

[dolcedragon]

Thank you, AHBD. I will keep updating if for no other reason than to help someone else dealing with something similar know they're not alone. I learned a lot myself searching through old locked and buried threads. There are some very knowledgeable people on this site.

I'm not feeling quite as panicked and desperate as I was earlier, though still worried about my little girl. The vet is supposed to call me back any minute so I can ask her a million more questions.

Anastasia actually got some food in her today. I bought some Gerber Squash and a syringe. I tried spooning a litte of the baby food in her dish, but she was having trouble leaning in and slurping it up so I put a paper towel down and just slopped some on the side of the dish, which, while messy, actually worked. She gobbled the squash up, pausing every few licks to tilt her head in the air and smack her lips a few times before taking a deep breath and diving back in. She had about 3 spoonfuls of squash. It was great to see she had an appetite and she kept it all down. However, there was still the black beard/tail and gulping that has been happening every meal.

I did notice her do the gulping thing a couple times this morning before feeding so it's not just food that bothers her. Maybe it is a URI?

It was a sunny day so I took her outside for about 10 minutes while my S.O. took everything out her viv and disinfected it. I checked temps again and she has 78F on cool side and 105F on the other.

I took the advice of disguising the Baytril so it wouldn't cause her added stress. When we came back inside I put the drop of Baytril (0.03 is SO small!) with a small bit of the baby food squash into a syringe and think got it all in her mouth. She thrashed a couple times at the sight of the syringe and attempted to attack it, but didn't seem to mind the taste and was calm afterwards. Not sure how/if I'm going to give it tomorrow, but at least it's over for today!

 

[AHBD]

That sounds like a pretty good day , and a a successful eating plan ! I'm glad to hear it . And yes, there is a possibility of a URI....I never meant to say that I would rule it out, but can't say for sure that's what it is. The black beard of course shows discomfort while eating, but thankfully she has a good appetite aside from that. I think you can get the Baytril in her disguised in her food, and a probiotic will help while she's on it. Keep up the good work !

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

I am sorry that Anastasia is having so many issues. I agree, having an x-ray would help a lot for determing whether or not she has a respiratory infection.
Since she is 9, the baytril may be a little harsh on her system if it wasn't needed.
You can increase the temperatures for overnight, to around 80 or so for boosting the immune system.
If you are going to give some Baytril, a probiotic can help a lot. You can get non dairy soy yogurt or acidophiliz for that.
Which UVB light do you use for her?
It sounds like she enjoyed the squash though, but at least she got some nutrition into her. Did her black beard start after you gave the first dose of Baytril?
Do you have a water dish in her tank with her?

Tracie

 

[Drache613]

Moved by Moderator from Health to ER

 

[Esther19]

I have a special needs girl who has had trouble off and on with chewing/getting food down. When I need to look down her throat I use a rubber spatula to open her mouth from the side. She doesn't like it, but it enables me to see if there is anything stuck. One time a few years ago she had troubles getting food down and was vomiting, etc., and it turned out that there was food in her throat that the doc needed to remove. I don't know if that's is your girl's problem. I agree with the others that an x-ray is in order.

 

[dolcedragon]

Hello,

I am sorry that Anastasia is having so many issues. I agree, having an x-ray would help a lot for determing whether or not she has a respiratory infection.
Since she is 9, the baytril may be a little harsh on her system if it wasn't needed.
You can increase the temperatures for overnight, to around 80 or so for boosting the immune system.
If you are going to give some Baytril, a probiotic can help a lot. You can get non dairy soy yogurt or acidophiliz for that.
Which UVB light do you use for her?
It sounds like she enjoyed the squash though, but at least she got some nutrition into her. Did her black beard start after you gave the first dose of Baytril?
Do you have a water dish in her tank with her?

Tracie

Thank you for the reply.

I use Reptisun 10.0 UVB that spans the whole viv. It gets down to about 74 degrees at night. I've never used a CHE and don't know what kind to get or how expensive they are, but if it will help her get better I'll do what I can.

I do not keep a water dish in her tank because I don't want to add humidity. I have also put baths on pause for the last couple days because I am not sure if it could worsen her condition.

The black bearding while eating started before the Baytril. I think it was probably Friday when I first noticed it, but just thought she had caught a glimpse of my other beardie or was distressed from her arthritis. It was over the weekend that the gulping started.

The vet never did call me back today so I will try again tomorrow and ask about a x-ray. I will also check the stores for the yogurt. I checked Walmart's website and couldn't find anything though. If I can't then I will order the Acidophiliz.

 

[dolcedragon]

Last night there was a little gaping and I was able to get a decent look at the inside of her mouth and didn't see anything stuck. I'll remember the spatula trick for the future though.

I awoke from a nap to find her in her hide. I moved her to her basking area for a bit to get warm before feeding. She was all over darker than usual when I checked back with her, temp gun read 93. She had some more baby food squash followed by some cuddle time before going back in her house to bask. She actually crawled up on her log today. There was some gulping and gaping when I put her back in, but no thrashing, vomiting, or black beard.

I know she's old and her little body has been through a lot... While she still seems very weak the lack of black bearding today gives me hope. Thank y'all again for any advice/support. I'll keep you updated.

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

It sounds like she may be feeling better today?
You can also use a heating pad, on low, with a towel in between her & the pad for safety to help with temperatures.
So she didn't have a black beard today?
I am glad you don't have a water dish in the tank with her, it normally increases humidity too much.
At least she kept down the baby food, that is excellent!

I hope she is doing better. Keep us posted on her.

Tracie