"Undigested" Cricket Parts

[TheLastBaron]

I lurked the boards for a bit, couldn't find any answers addressing this exact topic (unless they're buried somewhere on the 183rd page...)

I have seen some topics regarding finding undigested cricket parts in fecals, and different posters express different levels of anxiety about it. My question is, when feeding an animal like a cricket whose chitinous exoskeleton tends to be difficult to break down in the time it takes a beardie to digest, wouldn't it be common for some of the cricket parts to simply pass through, they way plant cellulose (corn kernels) and other bits occasionally pass through a mammal's system? (I'm not comparing the mammalian digestive tract to the reptilian, simply using that as an example... not all matter gets fully digested, or, in a more base vernacular, gets turned into poo.)

Having said that, Rincewind's basking temps and warm/cool temps are good, he eats about 40 crickets a day, plus salad (radish greens, collard greens, kale, red chard, mushed asparagus and broccoli). He's about 5 months, probably 8 inches nose to vent and tail adds another 8 or 9 inches. Gets bathed approximately every other day, and poos pretty regularly (once to twice daily).

When possible, I flush his dook after picking it out with toilet paper (he's on slate tile) and if the turds break up, there are obviously little undigested cricket parts (bits of leg, I saw a head in there, some pretty gnarly bits of thorax). Each turd looks pretty standard (brownish green with that lovely film that makes their passage so lovely to observe). It's only when I pick them apart (for science, not fun) that I notice some undigested bits.

Having said all that, he appears to be healthy in every other sense: he runs around and loves to explore/hide in my house, eats with gusto twice daily when served crickets, and makes a meal of salads about every 4th or 5th day. He's very social: he sulks if I don't take him out to snuggle every night. He falls asleep between my t-shirt and zip-up hoodie every night while I read, watch tv, or play video games.

Bragging bits aside, is there any answer to whether some undigested cricket parts is "normal" in a poo?

 

[Paradon]

The bigger the animals the more chitin it has because they need support. This is why I like feeding immature crickets because they have less chitin. Most insects have it. Chitin is very indigestable. If you bugs have too much chitin, it can pose an impaction risks. Too much of any thing that your bearded can't digest is going to cause blockage.

As for plants. Some plants have more tuogh cellulose than others. If I'm not mistaken, grasses has rasin which is indegestable to most animals except some tortoises and mooses (the largest species of deer). Most mammals that eat grasses like cows spend a good amount of time chewing to break down the tough cellulose wall so the degestive juice can get in there and break it down. Even then they don't digest grasses very well; that's why they need to eat a lot of it. Most of the leafy green and hard veggies that we buy at the supermarkets are very digestable for our pets when eaten raw. The bearded dragons are true omnivores so they can eat these greens and veggies raw. I don't think they have any rasin. Anyboy feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. I don't consider myself an expert. :wink:

 

[AtlasStrike]

Chitin by itself is actually pretty digestible, what happens in mature insects is that the chitin is modified and combined with other compounds- that is what makes big crickets crunchy.

I would say that a healthy dragon might occasionally pass a bit of undigested exoskeleton when feeding on chitinous insects like super worms, meal worms or mature crickets, but if I observed that, I would take a fecal sample to the vet ASAP. Parasites are the most likely cause, although temperatures that are not high enough could also be responsible. Considering the long term effects of parasites, I would get a fecal exam done if you haven't done one in the last 6 months. Either way, instead of just picking up poop with toilet paper, I would recommend thoroughly washing/disinfecting the area after each bowel movement. Diluted bleach solution works really well, and a lot of people swear by hand held steam cleaners. Personally, I try to get my beardie to poop in the bath whenever possible, and I use Nolvasan to clean the viv thoroughly once every two weeks. Just avoid oil based cleaners like Lysol, cause they are very toxic.

Low levels of round worms can be managed by being meticulous about hygiene to prevent reinfection, but I would definitely have a vet take a look. Worms like human hosts just as much as dragons, so getting rid of any unwelcome stow-aways is good for the whole family.

 

[Paradon]

Worms jumping species is very rare if I'm not mistaken. There are are couple species of worms that can be transmitted to people, but that is rare, and I don't think they live inside the bearded dragons.

 

[AtlasStrike]

Rare, maybe, but quite possible. Parasitic and bacterial infections originating from reptiles are pretty well documented. Does that mean you beardie is a danger to your family, of course not, but in the name of preventative medicine and risk management, having a vet check (or at least a fecal) is a good idea. And, it will improve the life and health of your pet.

Regardless, I believe that what they OP is observing in the stool of their dragon is likely caused by internal parasites. What is coming out the back should not be recognizable as what is was when your dragon swallowed it. If you are unsure, you can bump the temps up a few degrees, but a fecal float won't hurt.

 

[TheLastBaron]

Thanks for feedback!

I suppose I should clarify, when he poops in his viv, I pick it out and then disinfect the area with isopropyl alcohol; it dries very fast and is a quick disinfectant; I pull up the tile and wash all of his implements and the glass viv about once a month with hot water and white vinegar soaks.

Good info about doing a fecal if this keeps up; I am also bumping up temps in his cage lately. A month ago they were actually too high and I bought a dimmer, that's when I started noticing the weird dooks, so I'm bumping it back up again. I'm starting to err on the side of "a little too hot" and trusting that he can regulate and move if he is too warm rather than being consistently chilly.