Trying not to be THAT mom

[Chip]

Hello everyone
Chip has been doing very well recently. We moved to a new apartment, he's been eating whatever I give him like he's never eaten before (seriously, it's growth spurt time for sure) and he's adjusting well to the new space.
But this morning when I turned his lights on, and started getting ready for the day, something seemed off. He was immediately alert, almost a little panicked at first where he normally is very slow to wake up, stays in his bed for about an hour. He ran around for about ten minutes, and then he stopped, puffed up his chin the biggest I've ever seen (almost like an adult dragon, not the little ones I've seen him do before). I tried to brush it off as stretching, but then he opened his mouth and seemed to cough (it wasn't a hiss, I've heard him hiss at my dad's dog) once or twice, and then he went back to lay in his bed. I've also noticed that he has had a bit of a swollen belly recently. I'm trying not to panic too much (my mind immediately went to ADV as I got him from a not so great place) but he's never exhibited symptoms before this and he hadn't had any contact with other dragons since the store. Can someone please help ease my mind? Lol. I'm still probably going to get him to the vet, because that's on the to do list anyway, but I just want to make sure that I don't need to panic!
Thank you!

 

[kingofnobbys]

How old is he ? and what is his weight ?
Are you sure he's a he ?
When was his last poo ? last shed ?

Need much more information and details on your beardie's setup and your husbandry otherwise we can't even hazard a guess.

Here's my Cheat Sheet :
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=234738&p=1806050#p1806050
It covers :
>heating & lighting
>UV
>substrates
>lighting schedule
>feeding schedule
>feeder insects
>and other husbandry issues.

If you work through it methodically , the chances are there are likely a lot of issues that need to be tweeked or changed and they will pop right out at you, if you can give very detailed answers we will then be in a position to offer help. Is impossible to help you if you don't provide thorough details .

 

[Chip]

How old is he ? and what is his weight ?
Are you sure he's a he ?
When was his last poo ? last shed ?

Need much more information and details on your beardie's setup and your husbandry otherwise we can't even hazard a guess.

Here's my Cheat Sheet :
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=234738&p=1806050#p1806050
It covers :
>heating & lighting
>UV
>substrates
>lighting schedule
>feeding schedule
>feeder insects
>and other husbandry issues.

If you work through it methodically , the chances are there are likely a lot of issues that need to be tweeked or changed and they will pop right out at you, if you can give very detailed answers we will then be in a position to offer help. Is impossible to help you if you don't provide thorough details .

I thought this morning that it might be the temps but basking is 100 even and cool is around 75. I just fed him and he ate okish. He wanted to go straight for the greens, skipped protein and other stuff. But that's really not unusual for him. Like I said I bought him from a Petshmo so I'm not 100% sure his age but I've been guessing around thirteen to fourteen weeks. If you've seen my other post I have had issues finding a feeder he likes, right now we're still doing best with super worms even though I'm not thrilled about it. He has his active moments but when I really think about it, he's kind of lethargic. He takes naps about twice a day on or under his log. He spends most of his time basking or climbing an improvised climbing wall I make out of paper towels. His schedules are always consistent, lights on and off at ten am/pm and he's always been pretty chill with that. He spends nine thirty pm to ten or ten thirty cuddling with me while I do my homework every night. He eats twice a day, once at noon and once at six. He'll pick from these meals a little but I'm lucky to get even a little protein in him, but I've tried all of the feeders except soldier fly larvae (I can't find them anywhere local). Roaches he completely ignored, crickets he tried to hunt but he'd get one and then go to his log and they'd just roam everywhere. His poos have been very consistent, once or sometimes twice a day but he hasn't missed a day since I can remember. His last shed was about a month ago, he is definitely prepping for another one but this just doesn't feel like his normal shed behavior. Lethargy sure, but the cough is what struck me the most.
Pretty much, I haven't changed anything except for moving, and his behavior changed pretty rapidly. Could this just be relocation stress? Basically, should I book an emergency vet appointment or just wait for our normal one?

 

[AHBD]

How big are the superworms you fed him ? He might have a bit of tummy upset if he ate too many or if they were too large. Can you post pics showing him, his entire set up as well as list the exact type + brand of lights ? Here's how to post pics :

https://www.beardeddragon.org/useruploads/ Then use the XIMG to upload them

 

[Chip]

How big are the superworms you fed him ? He might have a bit of tummy upset if he ate too many or if they were too large. Can you post pics showing him, his entire set up as well as list the exact type + brand of lights ? Here's how to post pics :

https://www.beardeddragon.org/useruploads/ Then use the XIMG to upload them

I put his UV light up for the day already. I get the medium sized worms rn. The lights I use are Zoomed 100 watt infrared, zoomed 100 watt basking light, and the Zoomed reptisun 5.0 uvb. He's super lethargic at this point and I'm googling my vet, just to be on the safe side. Worse thing that I figure can happen is the vet says I'm worrying too much, right?

 

[Chip]

How big are the superworms you fed him ? He might have a bit of tummy upset if he ate too many or if they were too large. Can you post pics showing him, his entire set up as well as list the exact type + brand of lights ? Here's how to post pics :

https://www.beardeddragon.org/useruploads/ Then use the XIMG to upload them

I put his UV light up for the day already. I get the medium sized worms rn. The lights I use are Zoomed 100 watt infrared, zoomed 100 watt basking light, and the Zoomed reptisun 5.0 uvb. He's super lethargic at this point and I'm googling my vet, just to be on the safe side. Worse thing that I figure can happen is the vet says I'm worrying too much, right?

*edit, it appears I feed him the large ones, but the worms I've been giving him are definitely within the recommended length

 

[AHBD]

Cute little guy does look pretty bloated. He's a bit too small for large superworms [ people will say the beardie needs to be 16" but it's not true, but they CAN get impacted from large ones when they are young + under 13". ] Offer some baby food sweet potato and/or unsweetened applesauce with a few drops of veg.oil to help clear out possible impaction.

The 5.0 uvb will not be strong enough for the distance it is from him. You wll do much better with a mercury vapor bulb [ MVB ] like the Megaray 100 or with a strong long tube Reptisun 10.0 t5 or Arcadia 12% D3. Lack of good uvb will affect all body functions over time.

 

[Chip]

Cute little guy does look pretty bloated. He's a bit too small for large superworms [ people will say the beardie needs to be 16" but it's not true, but they CAN get impacted from large ones when they are young + under 13". ] Offer some baby food sweet potato and/or unsweetened applesauce with a few drops of veg.oil to help clear out possible impaction.

The 5.0 uvb will not be strong enough for the distance it is from him. You wll do much better with a mercury vapor bulb [ MVB ] like the Megaray 100 or with a strong long tube Reptisun 10.0 t5 or Arcadia 12% D3. Lack of good uvb will affect all body functions over time.

Awesome, thanks. His adult Viv is currently being built so hopefully that will be adjusted before too dreadfully long. He's pooped since this picture, seems à little bit more perked up but not much.

 

[Chip]

Okay so I have a hesitant appointment with my vet (made through the online portal so I'm waiting on confirmation from the clinic). He's still super bloated but around thirty minutes after dinner (which I cut back on anyway, he only wanted one small worm and some greens per usual) he perked up a lot. I let him free roam for a little bit and he always loves that. When he went back in to warm up he did some laps through his log and did this thing that he does when he sheds where he runs along the side to scratch his back best he can. He also got a bath after dinner, no poo there but that's typical. He hates the bath no matter what I do, spent the whole time trying to escape. So he's just gone potty once today but again, not that unusual for him. I'm crossing my fingers that it's just shed or maybe just a little upset tum, but there's always the vet. Thank you guys

 

[kingofnobbys]

How old is he ? and what is his weight ?
Are you sure he's a he ?
When was his last poo ? last shed ?

Need much more information and details on your beardie's setup and your husbandry otherwise we can't even hazard a guess.

Here's my Cheat Sheet :
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=234738&p=1806050#p1806050
It covers :
>heating & lighting
color=#0000FF]<<< I can see a red glow ==> I suspect you have a red basking globe ( replace with colorless MVB or par38 incandescent or halogen spotglobe [/color]
>UV
<<< 13W 5% UVB is too weak , he's getting very little UVA & UVB from it.
<< suggest a 26W UVB200 as a quick temp fix , and move the hood UNDER the mesh lid. need the new 10%UVB not more than 8 inches from his basking spot.
>substrates
<<< looks fine
>lighting schedule
<<< 12 hr is too short (winterlike in their natural range) suggest bump up to 15-16hr per day on a domestic timer.
>feeding schedule
<< hatchlings
three feeds of live appropriate sized insects per day as many as they want per session offered a few at time if it's hoppy or fast moving
+ offer fresh high calcium greens daily (might not eat it).

Juveniles (6 months to 12 months)
two feeds of insects per day
+ offer fresh high calcium greens daily (might not eat it)
>feeder insects
<< Good staple insects
>> BSF maggots
>> blowfly gents
and the pupae and flies , great for hatchlings and juveniles , naturally rich in calcium
>> silkworms
small (1-1.5 inch for sub 3 month olds)
medium (1.5 - 2 inch for larger hatchlings and juveniles)
>> crickets / roaches / locusts , must be gutloaded with calcium rich foods and greens & dusted LIGHTLY with calcium powder. (1/3 size crickets will be about right size)

Repashi GRUBPIE is acceptable as a backup food.

>and other husbandry issues.

If you work through it methodically , the chances are there are likely a lot of issues that need to be tweeked or changed and they will pop right out at you, if you can give very detailed answers we will then be in a position to offer help. Is impossible to help you if you don't provide thorough details .

I thought this morning that it might be the temps but basking is 100 even and cool is around 75. I just fed him and he ate okish. He wanted to go straight for the greens, skipped protein and other stuff. But that's really not unusual for him. Like I said I bought him from a Petshmo so I'm not 100% sure his age but I've been guessing around thirteen to fourteen weeks. If you've seen my other post I have had issues finding a feeder he likes, right now we're still doing best with super worms even though I'm not thrilled about it. He has his active moments but when I really think about it, he's kind of lethargic. He takes naps about twice a day on or under his log. He spends most of his time basking or climbing an improvised climbing wall I make out of paper towels. His schedules are always consistent, lights on and off at ten am/pm and he's always been pretty chill with that. He spends nine thirty pm to ten or ten thirty cuddling with me while I do my homework every night. He eats twice a day, once at noon and once at six. He'll pick from these meals a little but I'm lucky to get even a little protein in him, but I've tried all of the feeders except soldier fly larvae (I can't find them anywhere local). Roaches he completely ignored, crickets he tried to hunt but he'd get one and then go to his log and they'd just roam everywhere. His poos have been very consistent, once or sometimes twice a day but he hasn't missed a day since I can remember. His last shed was about a month ago, he is definitely prepping for another one but this just doesn't feel like his normal shed behavior. Lethargy sure, but the cough is what struck me the most.
Pretty much, I haven't changed anything except for moving, and his behavior changed pretty rapidly. Could this just be relocation stress? Basically, should I book an emergency vet appointment or just wait for our normal one?

 

[kingofnobbys]

How big are the superworms you fed him ? He might have a bit of tummy upset if he ate too many or if they were too large. Can you post pics showing him, his entire set up as well as list the exact type + brand of lights ? Here's how to post pics :

https://www.beardeddragon.org/useruploads/ Then use the XIMG to upload them

I put his UV light up for the day already. I get the medium sized worms rn. The lights I use are Zoomed 100 watt infrared, zoomed 100 watt basking light, and the Zoomed reptisun 5.0 uvb.
Get rid of the red globe infrared globe , if you need extra heat , install either a higher wattage basking globe or higher wattage MVB or install a ceramic heat emitter.

He's super lethargic at this point and I'm googling my vet, just to be on the safe side. Worse thing that I figure can happen is the vet says I'm worrying too much, right?

*edit, it appears I feed him the large ones, but the worms I've been giving him are definitely within the recommended length

I believe the courses of his lethargy and lack of appetite are :
>>> the red glow
>>> the very weak UVB coil ==> not enough UVA ==> very poor apetite and lethargy
>>> too short a photoperiod
>>> incorrect temperatures

 

[EllenD]

His UVB and UVA light are inadequate, and that combined with superworms that are way too big for him and hard for him to digest in the first place are causing his lethargy, his bloating, and his "picky" eating. He's not really a picky eater, he just has no appetite because he's never had an appropriate UVB light or basking light. Lack of UVB light is causing him to have no appetite, and superworms are like treats, so he eats them, but that's the only reason...Then due to the inadequate lighting he can't digest them. He needs either an 18" Reptisun 10.0 (never ever a 5.0!) T8 TUBE mounted INSIDE HIS TANK, UNDER THE MESH LID, AND WITHIN 8" OF HIS BASKING SPOT, or an 18" Reptisun 10.0 T5 High-Output UVB tube that can sit on top of the mesh lid but MUST BE WITHIN 11" OF HIS BASKING SPOT. The T8 is not strong enough to penetrate the mesh lid, the T5 is. The T8 must be replaced every 6 months, the T5 once a year.

Get rid of the red bulb, no colored bulbs at all, and go buy a regular household halogen indoor flood bulb like the kind you buy at Lowes or Walmart or Home Depot. Probably a 100 watt for his size of enclosure, then retest temps.

 

[Chip]

His UVB and UVA light are inadequate, and that combined with superworms that are way too big for him and hard for him to digest in the first place are causing his lethargy, his bloating, and his "picky" eating. He's not really a picky eater, he just has no appetite because he's never had an appropriate UVB light or basking light. Lack of UVB light is causing him to have no appetite, and superworms are like treats, so he eats them, but that's the only reason...Then due to the inadequate lighting he can't digest them. He needs either an 18" Reptisun 10.0 (never ever a 5.0!) T8 TUBE mounted INSIDE HIS TANK, UNDER THE MESH LID, AND WITHIN 8" OF HIS BASKING SPOT, or an 18" Reptisun 10.0 T5 High-Output UVB tube that can sit on top of the mesh lid but MUST BE WITHIN 11" OF HIS BASKING SPOT. The T8 is not strong enough to penetrate the mesh lid, the T5 is. The T8 must be replaced every 6 months, the T5 once a year.

Get rid of the red bulb, no colored bulbs at all, and go buy a regular household halogen indoor flood bulb like the kind you buy at Lowes or Walmart or Home Depot. Probably a 100 watt for his size of enclosure, then retest temps.

Eek. This is what I get for buying a "fully stocked dragon kit". Should have known when it came with sand! His new vivarium will be in very soon and then all of the lights will be inside, and he'll have more room and stimulation which will probably also help. I'll keep the vet appointment anyway, he needed to be checked out anyway

 

[SHBailey]

Don't feel bad -- you're not the first person to get duped by those bearded dragon kits they sell at the pet stores and make you think you're getting all the right stuff :roll: . And you probably won't be the last, either.

This raises an interesting question. I've been doing 12 hours on and 12 hours off with the lights for both of our reptiles (one bearded dragon and one corn snake) year round for at least the last 4-5 years or so -- meanwhile the light coming from the windows varies widely from summer to winter here in Alaska. I figure that's an artificial photoperiod resembling equinox, but you say that looks like winter to a beardie and it should be as much as 16 hours/day, Kingofnobbys? You may have to explain that one. :? Electric bills are an issue around here, but if keeping the lights on longer will help make our beardie happier and healthier, we'll certainly consider it.

I did add a couple of hours to the lighting schedule when he was sick two years ago in the middle of the winter. Couldn't tell if it was the illness or if he was trying to brumate, but he couldn't afford to brumate until he got better anyway, so we were trying to convince him it wasn't really winter. It didn't seem to really make much difference, so we went back on the 12 hour schedule sometime after he seemed to have recovered as much as he was going to.

 

[AHBD]

I've owned + had dragons brumate for the past 25 years, it's no hardship on them at all but if a dragon is ill you don't want them brumating. At the same time if they want to sleep they are going to whether the lights are on or not. They'll find a place to snuggle up + snooze.

I've never had lights on for more than 14 hrs. a day, really no need at all.

BTW, this should be brought up in a new thread so the info doesn't get mixed up with the O.P's.