Okay everyone, I'm reaching out for ANY advice, shared stories, prayers, wishes, and good thoughts for my Leo. This is going to be a bit long-winded...
I bought my Leo back in October 2010, as an adult (him, not me... well, me as well, but that's not the point). He was a former breeder for a wonderful couple I met at the Sacramento Reptile Show that year. Basically I fell in love with the big guy, and simply had to have him. He came to me a very healthy and robust goofball, at 2 1/3 years old, 21" long, and at about 670 grams. He had never been a massive eater, for me or his previous family, but he somehow managed to maintained that weight. After having him for five months, I took him to the Vet, as he had seemed... off... to me (this was now March 2011). Turned out he had pinworms. Two doses of Panacur later, and he was like a new dragon. His weight spiked at 750 grams, and he seemed to be single-handedly trying to destroy my dubia colony!
Fast forward a few months, to the hot Summer time. Leo loves exploring in the back yard, and weather permitting, I make sure to let all of the beardies enjoy some natural sunlight at least once a week. Leo, especially, loves it. Now, there is an area of our back patio that is slow to drain water after the sprinklers have come on. This is Leo's favorite place to play. I don't know what it is about the goofball, but he just adores playing in puddles. Anyway, back in July, he got a bit overly excited, and aspirated some water. He coughed and sputtered a bit, then went on his merry way. I watched him like a hawk for a few days, but everything seemed fine. On a particular day at the end of the month, however, I noticed he had a little "wet" sounding cough. I monitored him again, but it never came back.
Fast forward again, to this past September. Leo had seemed... off... again, and I noticed a bit of weight loss (I regularly weigh everyone). I had also noticed what I *thought* might have been a tiny bit of blood in his stool one day, though I couldn't be sure. In addition to all that, he seemed to be exhibiting some signs of what might have been a respiratory infection; forced exhalation, gaping, even seeming to swallow back down mucus that the exhalations dislodged. I took him back to the Vet, where a fecal exam showed that his parasite levels were elevated once more. Two more rounds of Pancur. However, this time he didn't bounce back. In fact, the very day after his second Panacur round, I woke up to find a very lethargic beardie (this was now the very beginning of October). It scared me enough that I made an Urgent Care appointment for that same day. Blood was drawn for a full work-up, a vitamin shot and fluids were administered (as a precaution), and he was prescribed a round of Fortaz injections, 0.07ml to be given every three days for a total of seven doses (also as a precaution).
Less that a week later, I brought him back in for a follow-up appointment. His fecal showed that he still had parasites, and so was put on a round of Flagyl, 7ml every three days for a total of five doses, which ended up finally doing the trick. His CBC panel was "inconclusive" however, though it did show that poor Leo was fighting some kind of infection.
Leo was still losing weight, so at this time I began syringe-feeding him slurries. I'd mix up chicken or squash baby food, with the Repta-Aid nutritional supplement, and calcium and vitamins as needed. I even bought that "Baby Bullet" blender device to make little Dubia Smoothies for him (ohhh man, the SMELL). Leo, being the wonderful boy that he is, always took it like a champ.
At the end of October, I brought Leo in again to the Vet. At this time, I had X-Rays done, which came back normal. The Fortaz injections hadn't managed to get rid of whatever infection he was fighting, so he was prescribed a round of TMS, 0.35ml to be given orally every other day for a total of 12 doses. After watching him through four doses though, I couldn't bring myself to continue the treatment... obvious distress, vomiting, black-bearding, panicked behavior. I decided (and my Vet agreed) to discontinue the TMS, and begin the recommended two rounds of the holistic approach, Reptaid. I continued with the slurries.
Now we're up to November. At first, the Reptaid seemed to be doing the trick. Leo was finally putting back on a little of the weight he had lost, and was beginning to eat on his own a little, with superworms and hornworms being his meals of choice. The symptoms that I had believed to be as a result of a respiratory infection were less as well. I was so happy that my big boy was finally getting better.
Then toward the end of December, he took a rather rapid down-turn.
His weight was at its lowest, at 610 grams. Though he still had some fat pads on the top of his head, you could see the poor little guy's hip bones jutting against his skin. He stopped eating almost altogether, and I might have thought he was getting ready for brumation, if it wasn't for the weight loss and the fact that he still basked the entire day away. His energy level was dropping, he began to seem slightly unsteady on his feet, and the respiratory infection symptoms were back with a force, as I was now seeing liquid bubbling from his nostrils. On the 30th, I took him back into the Vet, and voiced my concern that we were still dealing with a RI, and that I wanted to put him on Baytril. My Vet listened to his lungs though, and said that they sounded just fine. However, he did say that even though the lungs sounded fine, and the X-Rays came back clean, it didn't necessarily mean that there wasn't something going on. So he prescribed Leo a round of Baytril, 0.15ml to be injected every day for 10 days.
Knowing that Baytril can be harsh on their systems, I took time off work to make sure that I was home for the entire round of injections, so that I could continue the slurries, oral fluids, and general loving attention. We have our little routine... after his lights have been on for an hour or two, I put him into a quick warm bath, where he'll poop (though the Baytril has given him slight diarrhea, so some mornings he can't wait, and I end up cleaning his basking area), then he's taken out and given his injection. Next we cuddle on the couch for an hour, him wrapped in a towel on top of a heat pad (the kind for humans). After that he goes back to his tank for a few hours of basking, then I take him out again for another quick warm bath so I can feed him his slurry (he's a messy eater). Then it's back for another hour of heat pad/towel/couch cuddling, before being returned to his tank for a couple more hours of basking before lights-out.
So, here's the thing... he seems to be getting worse. Tomorrow is his last scheduled Baytril injection, and I can't say that I've seen any improvement. He's only put back on 10 grams, and he's still dealing with what I believe are respiratory issues. He refuses to eat anything on his own. What has scared me the most, is when I came home tonight from visiting my Mom, I picked him up to move him to his warmer cozy hide (he had fallen asleep on his now-cold basking rock), and I quite literally FELT rattling in his chest when he exhaled. It was VERY noticeable. He looked at me with his sad little eyes, and I just absolutely broke down.
I don't know what else to do. I've put so much care and money into my big boy, and to see him steadily go downhill is hurting me. I feel like I'm fighting a losing battle. During his last Vet appointment, I told my wonderful Vet that because I wanted to be a realist and look at all possibilities, I needed to talk to him about euthanasia. I had sobbed so hard that I was barely coherent. If it comes down to it, I will make that call, and not prolong my Leo's Life if he tells me it's time, but I'm just so frustrated with what's going on with him. I'm wondering if another round of Baytril injections will make a difference...
I'm also wondering if anyone, ANYONE, has any idea of where I can go from here. Because I know the question will be, and should be, asked, here's a run-down of Leo's tank and feeding:
- 40 gallon breeder, open top (no screen)
- tile substrate, with a large flagstone under his basking lights, and a half-log hide on the "cool" end with a cozy fleece blanket tucked inside, and random fake foliage decorations
- lights are on a 12 on/12 off cycle
- "old school" 100 watt MegaRay MVB on basking side (from BEFORE they had their issues) that still puts out great UVB (I have and regularly use a Solarmeter 6.2), kept at a recommended distance away from him (15" from basking rock) with an additional heat only bulb to get the temps right
- CHE on "cool" side run 24/7 right now, as it's Winter and we don't run our heater very much
- basking temp between 105*F and 110*F (elevated because of his illness, though he tends to like the higher temps anyway)
- "cool" side kept between 80*F and 82*F
- temps measures with digital probe, as well as a temp gun
- salads of mustard greens/dandelion greens/kale topped with different squashes available most days
- insect diet consists of superworms and dubia roaches, with hornworms given as an expensive treat (despite the numerous trips to the Vet... I'm really not made of money)
- live prey is lightly dusted with calcium powder (without D3) at every other feeding, and dusted with multivitamin once a week (though because he hasn't been eating, all of this has been taken into account with the slurries)
- raspberries given as an infrequent treat (he LOVES them)
- when he wasn't ill, he was given a warm bath every week
I'm sure there are umpty-squillion more questions that I should be answering, but I simply can't think of any more right now. It's 2:30 in the morning, my nerves are frayed, and it's hard to see the computer screen through the tears.
So please, if there's anything that anyone can tell me, even if it's just to let me know that it's okay to let him go, I'm begging you...
I bought my Leo back in October 2010, as an adult (him, not me... well, me as well, but that's not the point). He was a former breeder for a wonderful couple I met at the Sacramento Reptile Show that year. Basically I fell in love with the big guy, and simply had to have him. He came to me a very healthy and robust goofball, at 2 1/3 years old, 21" long, and at about 670 grams. He had never been a massive eater, for me or his previous family, but he somehow managed to maintained that weight. After having him for five months, I took him to the Vet, as he had seemed... off... to me (this was now March 2011). Turned out he had pinworms. Two doses of Panacur later, and he was like a new dragon. His weight spiked at 750 grams, and he seemed to be single-handedly trying to destroy my dubia colony!
Fast forward a few months, to the hot Summer time. Leo loves exploring in the back yard, and weather permitting, I make sure to let all of the beardies enjoy some natural sunlight at least once a week. Leo, especially, loves it. Now, there is an area of our back patio that is slow to drain water after the sprinklers have come on. This is Leo's favorite place to play. I don't know what it is about the goofball, but he just adores playing in puddles. Anyway, back in July, he got a bit overly excited, and aspirated some water. He coughed and sputtered a bit, then went on his merry way. I watched him like a hawk for a few days, but everything seemed fine. On a particular day at the end of the month, however, I noticed he had a little "wet" sounding cough. I monitored him again, but it never came back.
Fast forward again, to this past September. Leo had seemed... off... again, and I noticed a bit of weight loss (I regularly weigh everyone). I had also noticed what I *thought* might have been a tiny bit of blood in his stool one day, though I couldn't be sure. In addition to all that, he seemed to be exhibiting some signs of what might have been a respiratory infection; forced exhalation, gaping, even seeming to swallow back down mucus that the exhalations dislodged. I took him back to the Vet, where a fecal exam showed that his parasite levels were elevated once more. Two more rounds of Pancur. However, this time he didn't bounce back. In fact, the very day after his second Panacur round, I woke up to find a very lethargic beardie (this was now the very beginning of October). It scared me enough that I made an Urgent Care appointment for that same day. Blood was drawn for a full work-up, a vitamin shot and fluids were administered (as a precaution), and he was prescribed a round of Fortaz injections, 0.07ml to be given every three days for a total of seven doses (also as a precaution).
Less that a week later, I brought him back in for a follow-up appointment. His fecal showed that he still had parasites, and so was put on a round of Flagyl, 7ml every three days for a total of five doses, which ended up finally doing the trick. His CBC panel was "inconclusive" however, though it did show that poor Leo was fighting some kind of infection.
Leo was still losing weight, so at this time I began syringe-feeding him slurries. I'd mix up chicken or squash baby food, with the Repta-Aid nutritional supplement, and calcium and vitamins as needed. I even bought that "Baby Bullet" blender device to make little Dubia Smoothies for him (ohhh man, the SMELL). Leo, being the wonderful boy that he is, always took it like a champ.
At the end of October, I brought Leo in again to the Vet. At this time, I had X-Rays done, which came back normal. The Fortaz injections hadn't managed to get rid of whatever infection he was fighting, so he was prescribed a round of TMS, 0.35ml to be given orally every other day for a total of 12 doses. After watching him through four doses though, I couldn't bring myself to continue the treatment... obvious distress, vomiting, black-bearding, panicked behavior. I decided (and my Vet agreed) to discontinue the TMS, and begin the recommended two rounds of the holistic approach, Reptaid. I continued with the slurries.
Now we're up to November. At first, the Reptaid seemed to be doing the trick. Leo was finally putting back on a little of the weight he had lost, and was beginning to eat on his own a little, with superworms and hornworms being his meals of choice. The symptoms that I had believed to be as a result of a respiratory infection were less as well. I was so happy that my big boy was finally getting better.
Then toward the end of December, he took a rather rapid down-turn.
His weight was at its lowest, at 610 grams. Though he still had some fat pads on the top of his head, you could see the poor little guy's hip bones jutting against his skin. He stopped eating almost altogether, and I might have thought he was getting ready for brumation, if it wasn't for the weight loss and the fact that he still basked the entire day away. His energy level was dropping, he began to seem slightly unsteady on his feet, and the respiratory infection symptoms were back with a force, as I was now seeing liquid bubbling from his nostrils. On the 30th, I took him back into the Vet, and voiced my concern that we were still dealing with a RI, and that I wanted to put him on Baytril. My Vet listened to his lungs though, and said that they sounded just fine. However, he did say that even though the lungs sounded fine, and the X-Rays came back clean, it didn't necessarily mean that there wasn't something going on. So he prescribed Leo a round of Baytril, 0.15ml to be injected every day for 10 days.
Knowing that Baytril can be harsh on their systems, I took time off work to make sure that I was home for the entire round of injections, so that I could continue the slurries, oral fluids, and general loving attention. We have our little routine... after his lights have been on for an hour or two, I put him into a quick warm bath, where he'll poop (though the Baytril has given him slight diarrhea, so some mornings he can't wait, and I end up cleaning his basking area), then he's taken out and given his injection. Next we cuddle on the couch for an hour, him wrapped in a towel on top of a heat pad (the kind for humans). After that he goes back to his tank for a few hours of basking, then I take him out again for another quick warm bath so I can feed him his slurry (he's a messy eater). Then it's back for another hour of heat pad/towel/couch cuddling, before being returned to his tank for a couple more hours of basking before lights-out.
So, here's the thing... he seems to be getting worse. Tomorrow is his last scheduled Baytril injection, and I can't say that I've seen any improvement. He's only put back on 10 grams, and he's still dealing with what I believe are respiratory issues. He refuses to eat anything on his own. What has scared me the most, is when I came home tonight from visiting my Mom, I picked him up to move him to his warmer cozy hide (he had fallen asleep on his now-cold basking rock), and I quite literally FELT rattling in his chest when he exhaled. It was VERY noticeable. He looked at me with his sad little eyes, and I just absolutely broke down.
I don't know what else to do. I've put so much care and money into my big boy, and to see him steadily go downhill is hurting me. I feel like I'm fighting a losing battle. During his last Vet appointment, I told my wonderful Vet that because I wanted to be a realist and look at all possibilities, I needed to talk to him about euthanasia. I had sobbed so hard that I was barely coherent. If it comes down to it, I will make that call, and not prolong my Leo's Life if he tells me it's time, but I'm just so frustrated with what's going on with him. I'm wondering if another round of Baytril injections will make a difference...
I'm also wondering if anyone, ANYONE, has any idea of where I can go from here. Because I know the question will be, and should be, asked, here's a run-down of Leo's tank and feeding:
- 40 gallon breeder, open top (no screen)
- tile substrate, with a large flagstone under his basking lights, and a half-log hide on the "cool" end with a cozy fleece blanket tucked inside, and random fake foliage decorations
- lights are on a 12 on/12 off cycle
- "old school" 100 watt MegaRay MVB on basking side (from BEFORE they had their issues) that still puts out great UVB (I have and regularly use a Solarmeter 6.2), kept at a recommended distance away from him (15" from basking rock) with an additional heat only bulb to get the temps right
- CHE on "cool" side run 24/7 right now, as it's Winter and we don't run our heater very much
- basking temp between 105*F and 110*F (elevated because of his illness, though he tends to like the higher temps anyway)
- "cool" side kept between 80*F and 82*F
- temps measures with digital probe, as well as a temp gun
- salads of mustard greens/dandelion greens/kale topped with different squashes available most days
- insect diet consists of superworms and dubia roaches, with hornworms given as an expensive treat (despite the numerous trips to the Vet... I'm really not made of money)
- live prey is lightly dusted with calcium powder (without D3) at every other feeding, and dusted with multivitamin once a week (though because he hasn't been eating, all of this has been taken into account with the slurries)
- raspberries given as an infrequent treat (he LOVES them)
- when he wasn't ill, he was given a warm bath every week
I'm sure there are umpty-squillion more questions that I should be answering, but I simply can't think of any more right now. It's 2:30 in the morning, my nerves are frayed, and it's hard to see the computer screen through the tears.
So please, if there's anything that anyone can tell me, even if it's just to let me know that it's okay to let him go, I'm begging you...
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