Torn about substrates

[TheLastBaron]

New to beardie ownership. I've scoured the forums for some time, and I've gotten a pretty good feel for what the long-term posters, owners, and beardie-lovers think of sand substrate. I definitely have taken the advice to heart.

My problem is, my local reptile supply store's owner has more than a hundred herps in his store and also runs a venomous reptile museum out of his shop. He's got a huge black-throated monitor, raises crocs and torts, and houses a 20-foot Burmese Python that was found abandoned in an apartment building.

I've worked up this setup so that when I repeat what he's said, I want to make sure he doesn't get passed off as some random student rockin' it on the weekends at PetCo. Dude knows his stuff, is what I'm saying.


I talked to him for some time, and he uses sand as a substrate for beardies, suggested I keep using it or switch to millet. He's not a fan of tile or non-stick vinyl as it's "not really natural."

Has anyone else had this dilemma? A pro with nearly 30 years herping experience is the sole voice against what a couple thousand beardie owners are saying. I'm in the phase where I don't want to do anything wrong, and I think I could make a million mistakes and hurt my new son.

 

[bambichik39]

Most beardies are on compact hard clay, not loose beach sand like what ppl house them on. tile is perfectly safe, and its beneficial in the fact that it helps keeps their toe nails under control. Its also very sanitary, as it doesnt harbor bacteria (when cleaned) like sand does. Unless you totally dump ALL the sand everything it defecates, theres no way you can get it all out. Beardies can safely have a small amount of coccidia, but if you keep them on sand and they just keep getting reinfected it'll get worse and worse and worse. I haven't met a reptile vet yet that hasn't suggested I use a non loose substrate (before they knew i was already using one). Some have provided a "dig box" to those that utilize it, although I have a male and hes never been much of a digger. You can get slate tile cheap at Home Depot or Lowes, its easy to clean, you never have to replace it, and it holds heat well.

 

[TheLastBaron]

Thanks, Bambi. I think I'm going to pick up tile this week and redo the viv at the advice of... the entire forum. I was planning to do so anyway until this guy really had me second-guessing. I might do half-and-half with reptile carpet for the cool side.

 

[ChiefsDaddy]

A lot of people have this misconception of "keeping it natural" or giving beardies "what they have in the wild".

But, keep in mind that beardies in the wild live 3-4 years. Beardies in captivty, with the proper care, can live 10+ years. These are not wild animals, they're our beloved pets. It's not about "recreating their natural habitat". It's about giving them what is best for them.

Besides, beardies in the wild don't even live on sand. They live mostly on packed clay. Sure, they run into a sandy area every once in a while, but they certainly don't live on it all day, every day.

Sand carries many risks. The biggest one being impaction. Sand gets everywhere, including their food, and as a beardie eats, it accumulates sand in its belly and could cause a blockage that could kill the beardie. You might get lucky and never have a problem, but it's just one of those risks I'm not willing to take. And don't forget that beardies run around licking everything, and their tongues are very sticky. They would be eating sand constantly.

Another thing is that over time, sand breaks down into a finer dust, and beardies kick it up as the walk and run around, and that dust gets in their eyes, causing infections. They also breathe it into their lungs, causing respiratory problems.

Lastly, sand harbors bacteria. Beardies poop and pee in it, and scooping doesn't get all the bacteria out. It creates a dirty environment and spreads disease.

At the end of the day, it's up to you what you want to use for your beardies, but don't forget.... You have a choice, your beardies don't.

 

[Claudiusx]

Chief couldn't have said it better.

-Brandon

 

[TheLastBaron]

Metal. Thanks, guys. I appreciate you helping me put it into context. Looks like I'll be making a trip to Lowes this week for slate tile. How is slate on heat retention with a heating pad placed under the viv?

 

[bambichik39]

Beardies since heat from above, so don't use an UTH. It'll stay warm with the top lights shining on it, thats plenty. Just remember to check temps with a digital thermometer

 

[bdalton]

I had the same dilemma. I wanted to keep it natural, but didn't like the idea of shelf liner or tile, but also didn't want to put my babies at risk for my own personal liking. I went to home depot to check out tiles, and I found this porcelain tile that is amazing. It's this light brown that has a tint of reddish desert sand to it, and it's almost blotchy looking with hints of darker brown, tan and greyish to it. I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE it. I get complimented on it all the time because it looks so natural. And they're not living in their litter box. I got two 18x18" to fit my 40g breeder tank, and they cut it for me for .25 cents a tile and it fits so perfect that I didn't have to put anything between them. I don't have to worry about them ingesting anything, it holds heat well, and is super easy to clean. I spot clean after they poop and take it out every 2 weeks and soak them in ammonia solution. Both tiles together, cut were 16$, I will take a pic to show you, tomorrow though since both of them are out cold. I forget the name of the color, but it's kind of the color of the crushed walnut "desert blend", I think it's called. I have it in both my tanks and couldnt imagine using anything else. They don't slip and it keeps their nails filed, no crickets can get under or between them and I just love them.

I think you will find a tile that looks natural, and will be happy you did. Especially if you have/are getting a baby, you don't want to put them in sand.

I will post a pic tomorrow of what it looks like in the tank, but here's the link from it on home depot
I just didn't like slate, it's cheaper but I didn't like the color, and sometimes it doesn't sit flat in the tank.
http://homedepot.digby.com/homedepot/product/detail.do?itemId=100645911&categoryId=&path=

Let me know what you think. (it says it's glazed, but neither of mine has ever slipped or had a hard time walking on it.

 

[bdalton]

Or it may be this one, either way they are both natural looking.
http://homedepot.digby.com/homedepot/product/detail.do?itemId=100645913&categoryId=&path=

 

[TheLastBaron]

Bambi, I hear you, but Rincewind knows where the heat pad is. He dug the sand down shallow in the corner where it is to stay warm for rest after his basking lamp and UVB lamp shut off.

 

[Jess]

I like my non-particle substrates. Safety > Natural. My rescues have had horrible experiences from being kept on sand.

If you do choose to use an UTH, make sure you have a good thermostat for it. I prefer CHEs, but the biggest danger with UTH is that they can over heat and kill your reptiles.

 

[ShannyBeard]

If you do choose to use an UTH, make sure you have a good thermostat for it. I prefer CHEs, but the biggest danger with UTH is that they can over heat and kill your reptiles.

Yes because bearded dragons won't be aware that their bellies are burning. They just don't sense heat from their bellies. That's why we don't use UTH. No matter how much they seem to like a UTH, it's not good for them.

 

[TheLastBaron]

Next dumb question: I got really excited about getting tile, went to Home Depot, got my tile, and realized it's not natural slate, but man-made slate tiling. Is this going to make much of a temperature difference? I can already tell it's going to be a potential traction issue.

 

[Claudiusx]

You shouldn't have much troubles with it.

-Brandon

 

[bdalton]

I dont tbknk so either. Mine porcelain are glazed and man made i guess, lol, and neither of them have never had trouble at all and they hold heat well.