Swollen limbs, I'm really worried.

[skifflexie]

So a few weeks ago I posted about one of the babies from a clutch that I had received, who had a swollen right leg.

heres the link for back ground info: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=203930


For the last week it looked like the swelling was going down, and it was looking normal. Until this morning when I went to feed him, I noticed it was swollen larger, and his ankle looked like a little ball, and some random toes on other feet were swollen.

I'm at a lost at what to do. There are two 'reptile' vets in area. The one that is actually knowledgeable is recovering from knee surgery. The other vet (who I took him to last time) is awful. She just told me to soak him, and charge me $50 for that, she also told me to use my hands to break off my other lizards tail who has tail rot- I will not being breaking his tail off. So in the mean time until the 'good' vet is back I don't know what to do.

I've been soaking him nightly, bought him a new reptisun 10.0 bulb. He gets calcium, multivitamin, and reptiboost (I do the reptiboost every few days).

 

[sirenique]

I'm obviously not a doctor here, but that kind of edema may have several causes. A little bit of searching around the web and reading a few articles/book snippets indicated to me that reptiles that experience this have two main causes: hypovitaminosis A and renal (kidney) issues. Either issue is a good reason to get to the good vet ASAP.

This article deals with a gular edema in a chameleon which is not the same as edema of the fingers or limbs, but perhaps there is a similar cause. Either way, the treatment suggested in the linked article might be helpful until the good vet is back. You can also try (I am guilty of this, but I think all pet owners are sometimes) of pretty much begging the good vet to help you out with any advice possible until they are able to visually inspect your lizard ("any fee! you can charge me anything! no one is as good as you!") or looking for a vet that is a bit of a further distance from you, if you are desperate. Either way, the staff members at the good vet should at least be able to run some bloodwork for you even if your veterinarian is not available to interpret this; you could take the bloodwork results from the good vet to the crappy vet, because then at least you trust the data, and you can post your results here for more advice from the community??

I wish I could be of more help!! Best of luck, please let us know how everything goes. I hope other people have some better suggestions for you.

 

[destiny1998]

Hi. Yes he needs to go to the vet and have a blood test. He might have gout or mbd they have the same symptoms thats why he needs a blood test.

 

[skifflexie]

When at the first vet appt. I brought up MBD and Gout, the doctor told me she thought it was more trauma related. But I asked her if she would do a blood test and she said no, that he was too small...? He weighed 40 grams at his last visit. I haven't weighed him recently, but I know that he's put on some weight. Is there a weight cut off for blood tests? I also asked about X-rays to check bone density and fractures and she said for a starting image, would be $160.00! I'm not sure how much average reptile vets charge, but I previously worked for a vet (Im studying pre-vet medicine) and a starting xray was $50.00 I know that is cheap compared to some places, but the area is fairly low income. I'm gonna call around tomorrow in hopes of finding a better vet, or hopefully get the good vet to see him.

I read the article about the Vitaminous A, which seemed to be caused by over supplementing. Should I cut down his dustings? I had been doing more frequent dusting like someone had suggested since they thought it could be MBD. I just don't know what to do.

I feel so bad, I feel kind of hopeless, like it was looking way better, then all of sudden it gets worse.
He acts happy and eats well, and plays and gets around well.

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

I was hoping that it was getting better by now!
He is too small for a blood test. Normally they eed to be 100 grams, minimum for them to draw enough blood. I agree, an x-ray would be very helpful in determining what could be going on.
Also, they could aspirate some fluids from the swollen areas to do a culture to determine if there is a specific bacteria they need to treat.
Or, it could be metabolic bone disease. You are using the Powersun correct?
How long have you been using the Reptisun 10?
How much are you using calcium powder?
You could also try liquid calcium also, in case he may not be absorbing the calcium powder very well.
Do you think it is infected, was it initially from a bite or possibly just an injury?
Which multivitamin are you using?
What is his age again? That swelling does look a lot like the beginnings of gout, but on x-rays they may be able to see any tophi or crystallization, or with aspiration of fluids in that area.

Let us know how he is doing.

Tracie

 

[AHBD]

Hi there....I'm leaning towards possible over supplementation. Not with calcium, but vitamin powder + Repta boost. How often do you use the vitamin powder ? I would never use it more than once a week, if twice a week, then really tiny amounts. That combined with the Reptaboost may be way too much. That might be the culprit.

 

[skifflexie]

Hello,

I was hoping that it was getting better by now!
He is too small for a blood test. Normally they eed to be 100 grams, minimum for them to draw enough blood. I agree, an x-ray would be very helpful in determining what could be going on.
Also, they could aspirate some fluids from the swollen areas to do a culture to determine if there is a specific bacteria they need to treat.
Or, it could be metabolic bone disease. You are using the Powersun correct?
How long have you been using the Reptisun 10?
How much are you using calcium powder?
You could also try liquid calcium also, in case he may not be absorbing the calcium powder very well.
Do you think it is infected, was it initially from a bite or possibly just an injury?
Which multivitamin are you using?
What is his age again? That swelling does look a lot like the beginnings of gout, but on x-rays they may be able to see any tophi or crystallization, or with aspiration of fluids in that area.

Let us know how he is doing.

Tracie

The previous owner used powesuns, I do not. I've had a reptisun 10.0 on him since I got him.-Last week I bought a new bulb, even though the other one wasn't but 2months old, I thought it could help.

Before the injury I was supplementing (Exo Terra)Calcium w/ D3 5-6 days a week on crickets. And supplementing (Rep-Cal) Herptivite 1-2 times a week.

After the injury I pretty much stopped the herptivite, and just did some reptiboost every couple days. While I still dusted the crickets 6 days a week.

For dusting I have a cup with some calcium powder and I put all my crickets in it before feeding and shake them, then as I use the tongs to get them out I tap them to shake excess off. They are not completely white, they are more like a light white/grey color.

I don't dust the greens.


If Im remembering correctly he is 3-4 months. The first week I had them, they were housed together (they are clutch mates, he was the largest) from the beginning I planned on separating them asap, I was just waiting on a few of my supplies to come together. In the link above (original post) is what it initially looked like. I didn't really think it looked like a bite, there was no skin damage, or bite wound. It was just swollen, like maybe he fell, or jumped and hit it wrong.

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

It doesn't sound like a bite to me, maybe just an injury of some type.
I hope that it isn't a fracture though, which is a large possibility if he has had weakened bones.
Hopefully not gout or other infection though.
Can you get an x-ray on that area done?
He should be getting good UVB with the Reptisun 10 tube bulb though, plus the calcium dusting you are giving.
I think you are doing everything you can right now. Your set up & husbandry looks good.
Is his appetite doing pretty well?
Is he basking normally still?

Tracie

 

[skifflexie]

Hello,

It doesn't sound like a bite to me, maybe just an injury of some type.
I hope that it isn't a fracture though, which is a large possibility if he has had weakened bones.
Hopefully not gout or other infection though.
Can you get an x-ray on that area done?
He should be getting good UVB with the Reptisun 10 tube bulb though, plus the calcium dusting you are giving.
I think you are doing everything you can right now. Your set up & husbandry looks good.
Is his appetite doing pretty well?
Is he basking normally still?

Tracie

I thought it was an injury too, until the other morning when I woke up to him having a few random digits swollen....

I couldn't get ahold of the 'good' vet on friday. So I'll be calling again monday.
I have a limited budget, so I'm hoping that the other vet is more reasonably priced.

He is still basking normally, although he likes to hang his legs off of his basking rock (I'm not sure if thats just more comfortable for him or what).

His appetite is good, he really likes his crickets.

Should I continue to soak him daily?
I've noticed that lately he is really skittish to me, more than before.

thanks everyone for all your help, it's really appreciated.

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

Poor guy, how is he doing today?
It could be too much supplementation also, which can cause hypervitaminosis where the body can't utilize it all. Did you cut the reptaboost out for a bit? The herptavite is good but could have been too much with the reptaboost combination.
Maybe try cutting all of the supplementation out for a week or two in order to let his system catch up & flush out a little bit.
Continue giving a frequent bath right now & if you can get any extra oral fluids into him, that would be helpful too.

Let us know how he is doing.

Tracie

 

[skifflexie]

Hello,

Poor guy, how is he doing today?
It could be too much supplementation also, which can cause hypervitaminosis where the body can't utilize it all. Did you cut the reptaboost out for a bit? The herptavite is good but could have been too much with the reptaboost combination.
Maybe try cutting all of the supplementation out for a week or two in order to let his system catch up & flush out a little bit.
Continue giving a frequent bath right now & if you can get any extra oral fluids into him, that would be helpful too.

Let us know how he is doing.

Tracie

He is doing good still, no new swelling, good appetite, normal bm's. I haven't given him reptiboost in over a week now. I also haven't been dusting his food for the last few days.(I'll stop all supplementation for the next two weeks) Should I also cut out highly nutrient dense foods, like collards/Phoenix worms? and just feed crickets?

He is getting huge. I have his siblings and they are half his size.

 

[skifflexie]

Well good news, I got him an appointment for 9am tomorrow (with the good vet). The exam fee is $42.00 and the receptionist was unsure what the Dr. would want to do as far as xrays or draining. I brought up vitaminious, MBD, gout, is there anything else I should ask about???

I'm also bringing another lizard of mine in who has tail rot. Its just a exam and pricing. Has anyone dealt with having partial tail amputations? If so what was the cost, and how did recovery go?

I am a student, and I do my best for my pets, I just have to work with a tight budget.

Thanks again.

 

[AHBD]

That's good that he eats well + seems happy over all . I think you can still feed him as usual, just without supplementation.

Just curious, can you post a pic of the other beardie's tail ? Are you sure it's tail rot, and needs amputating ? Maybe it's something harmless. [ Hopefully ]

 

[skifflexie]

This is Santana's tail. I bought him at petsmart- where I work. He had a tail nip and some missing digits. The toes healed fine, but his tail looks like this.

 

[AHBD]

Yes, that will fall off eventually with or without intervention. Sometimes they heal fine but you just have to watch that the black spot doesn't move up. If you want the vet to have a look you can see what he says, but it's probably going to fall off at that point either way.