Super Skinny Beardie

[primasilva]

Things were going great for the first month or two that I had my baby beardie, but then SOMETHING happened and she stopped eating and started having seizures. She's skin and bones now! I've been trying one thing at a time to see if I can find the cause, with not much luck yet. I'm hoping you guys can help out, since my vet hasn't been able to think of anything! Here's what I've done so far, in chronological order. Sorry this message is so long, but I'm trying to remember every possible detail for y'all:

1. Vet - tested negative for parasites, gave me prescription calcium, and suggested DMG for seizures. Those have stopped now, but we're still not in the clear! Vet thinks this might be a simple failure to thrive, but I'm hoping not. I'll probably take her to someone else for another opinion, since I'm not a huge fan of my current one, but I need to find one first.

2. Replaced the Reptisun 10, even though it was only a couple months old.

3. Tried a zillion different heaters - UTH with a thermostat, infrared, a couple different basking ones, a couple CHEs. Right now, it's the Zoo Med Basking Spot Lamp, UTH, and CHE at night. I know a lot of you are against UTHs, but I have the reptile carpet over it and a thermostat keeping it below 100. I'll probably turn it off now that winter is over. She was loving the heat before, but this past month, no matter what, she consistently sits in or near her water on the cool side of the tank. I had the temp at 85-120 while she liked it, but now I dropped it to 80-110. Someone said she might be bruminating, but winter is almost over - why would she start now?

4. Stuck chicken baby food on her nose. She'd shake it off at me. Force fed her for a while, but it was really stressful for both of us. I might start again if she doesn't start feeding herself soon!

5. I've been trying that Fluker's appetite stimulant stuff over her veggies (Tri Something Mix from Jewel - dandelion, mustard, and I can't remember the other one. Collard? And occasional peas & green beans & carrots) & squash, and that seems to be working to get her to eat a tiny amount, but still no go on crickets. She was interested for a while, but really wobbly, so I think she's given up. I stick calcium in her water and over the veggies (and crickets), with herptivite added every couple days.

6. I recently adopted a cat who won't leave the tank alone - she's definitely after the crickets, not the beardie - so I covered 3 sides with cardboard and moved the tank so the cat can't get to the uncovered side.

7. I ordered a window film to reduce glare/reflection in case that's freaking my beardie out. I have a thread open asking whether it's safe to put it inside the tank. I think it should be, since it's just a static cling without adhesive, but figured I ought to double check!

8. I started looking into Arcadia bulbs & possibly putting the UV inside the tank instead of over it. I don't have a screen over the light, but it's a little far away from her since she stopped using the basking spot. I have another thread open asking about T5 vs T8.

9. I also started thinking about making polystyrene walls. This is more for looks than anything, but maybe she'd like some more hiding spots. I have a cave on the warm side and a big, shady branch & fake leaves on the cool side now, but I dunno - worth a shot!

10. I ordered literally every positive-reviewed commercial food that Amazon had (Nature Zone Bearded Dragon Bites, SFB Dragon Food Instant Meal, Fluker's Bearded Dragon Buffet Blend, Rep-Cal pellets, Zilla pellets, Zoo Med wet, JurassiDiet EasiDragon, canned silk worms). I know these tend to lack nutrition, but if one of them gets her out of this funk, I don't care!

11. I bought mealworms yesterday & put them in this morning. Fingers crossed that she goes for them!

12. Just edited to add - I also ordered dubia roaches from Amazon

So...yeah...I'm starting to run out of ideas. Can you guys think of anything I haven't tried?

 

[NikTait]

Really don't have much to contribute - sounds like you're doing so well at trying every option!
The only thing I could suggest is, if she does take worms/live food, then try her with wax worms instead of meal worms. They are much fattier, so are perfect for underweight beardies. Also very soft and easy to digest.
Also, is your beardie young? If so, a lot of people on this site would say not to give it mealworms. Some say it's ok when they are much older, but others just stick to 'never'.

 

[NikTait]

It also might be useful to go over your husbandry: how's your heating/lighting? That's really good of you to replace the ReptiSun, just to be sure. How close does she get to it? Does she bask? How do you keep her hydrated? What substrate is she on?

 

[primasilva]

Alrighty, I just ordered wax worms on eBay I can always give the extra mealworms to my sugar gliders once the roaches & silkworms & now wax worms come.

It also might be useful to go over your husbandry: how's your heating/lighting? That's really good of you to replace the ReptiSun, just to be sure. How close does she get to it? Does she bask? How do you keep her hydrated? What substrate is she on?

I mentioned my setup in pieces in my giant post, but here it is in one place:

For lighting & heat, I have a small UTH (It's either a 5, 10, or 20gal one - can't remember) and Zoo Med Basking Spot Lamp on one side, with a 36" Reptisun 10 across the top. My hot temp is around 110 and low is 80. A couple weeks ago, I had it a little higher at 120 and 85 since she was ALWAYS on the hot side, but now she refuses to go over there, so I removed one of the CHEs. At night, I just have a CHE going for a temp of around 75 - 80. My beardie WAS going to the absolute top of her basking spot all the time, around 5 or so inches from the UVB, but now she just hangs out at the bottom. I'm planning on stopping at Walmart when I get paid on Friday to get a fixture to hang the bulb inside the tank. Might try the Arcadia bulb, too. How much is TOO much UV? I was thinking about hanging a 5% next to the 10% if I don't do the Arcadia.

For hydration, I have a water dish, since she does drink from it. She has also been sitting in it like 24/7 lately. If she's not in it when I wake up, I spritz her with a spray bottle before I go to work. And then I give her a warm water soak every week or so.

For substrate, it's that green reptile carpet. I was thinking about getting tile, but haven't gotten around to it yet. Too busy spending all my money trying to get her to eat!

 

[NikTait]

You honestly sound like you are doing a fantastic job. I'd definitely say wax worms is your best bet. If she's going to eat anything at all, then those are what will put on weight. They are typically used for rescue or underweight beardies who are really needing the extra fat. They're not a great staple - simply because they're so fatty and addictive (like chocolate for beardies). But until she's a good weight, they are definitely a good choice. Is she getting enough calcium? I know the vet gave you some and you said you dusted - does she actually ingest the things you've dusted? Bearded dragon seizures are often to do with calcium deficiency.

Taken from reptilechannel site: "Bearded Dragon seizures are most commonly related to calcium problems. If you don’t have a full-spectrum light that emits the UVB portion of light, if you don’t change that light at the manufacturer’s recommended intervals, if you have the light too far from the bearded dragon or it is filtered through glass or plastic, if you are not keeping the bearded dragon at the correct temperature range, or if you are not feeding the bearded dragon an appropriate diet – any one of those things could be involved with why she is having a seizure."

And are you going to look into a second vet opinion?
Really sounds like you are doing everything right. Just keep persevering with her!

 

[primasilva]

She hasn't had seizures since I got the DMG, but I know that's just masking her issue. I've probably been dangerously close to giving her a calcium overdose...or I would be if she'd actually eat! I have Fluker's liquid calcium in her water, Rep-Cal with D3 that I coat all her food with, and I gut load the crickets with both that orange calcium gel & flake-looking enriched food. And then I squirt the calcium from the vet into her mouth...which she absolutely hates!

I'm almost out of Rep-Cal, so I ordered Cal-Stron to try (http://www.caribsea.com/itempage_blueiguana_cal-stron.htm). It uses stronium, which is supposedly easier to digest.

I am going to try another vet, but haven't found another exotics place nearby. There are usually a few at the reptile expo in my town, so I'll ask around when it takes place in a couple weeks!

 

[primasilva]

Well, I'm taking her to the vet tonight, so we'll see what they say! It's the same office, but I asked for a different guy this time. Hopefully this one is less pessimistic :-/

 

[NikTait]

Ok, good luck! Keep us updated

 

[primasilva]

This vet pretty much agrees with the last one. She thinks it's kidney failure and that there's probably no hope. She gave me 3 options: euthanize now, hospitalize her, or take her home with meds. I chose #3... especially since I just spent half my paycheck on stuff for her :'(

 

[MsWanda10166]

I have a super picky eater too, plus he is simi brumating right now. It is HARD when the little guys won't eat. I have done much like you and tried everything I could think of to feed him. I did get him to eat Dubias, for a bit, but he goes on and off his hunger strikes. The kicker is I have 3 other dragons, that try to eat me out of house and home (lol) I spoil my dragons terribly, this not always a good idea unless you have the freedom to keep it up. All of my dragons enjoy being hand fed. They also seem to eat better if I put them at their bowl during meal time. As for what I feed them that they love the most, is cactus pad, you can order from Amazon, and then just stick in a bucket of dirt outside, and within a month I already have pads shooting off. I got 4 pads, put one in the fridge to feed them, put one in water on the window to feed when I run out of first one and the other 2 in dirt outside. They are doing great. Do read up on how to grow them, God took care of mine, but that was by pure chance. The directions say, something about putting them in dirt, and letting them sit for 4 days, then water them, then only water them when they get dry.
I would also suggest getting some Acidophiluz+ from www.bug-de-lite.com Tracie runs that site, and she has some great stuff. The Acidophiluz calms their tummies, and if they are not eating regularly, it sure does help to get my Beast to eat better. Hornworms, are also something most beardies can't resist and super nutrisious. You can also use baby food chicken, turkey, squash, and sweet patatoes. Another thing you can try is pedealite plain, and add to his bath, they soak up water and nutrients from their vent, so that may help. If you post some pics, we might be able to help more.
I hope your dragon gets better.

 

[MsWanda10166]

I would also suggest that you contact Drache613 (Tracie) and see if she agrees on the kidney failure. I personally do not know enough about dragons, to tell you one way or another, but I sure would want a second opinion.

 

[NikTait]

Did they do a blood test to confirm kidney failure? Or was it just "I think it's this"?
Seems like they should do the test to confirm.

 

[NikTait]

"Because the medical history and signs can vary, the veterinarian must often rely on a complete blood count, serum chemistry panels, and urinalysis."
http://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?c=17+1796&aid=3317

I know that might be very expensive, so how much you would be able to go ahead with is another question - but were you even given the option of having an accurate, confirmed diagnosis?

 

[primasilva]

The vet says she's too thin to draw blood, at this point. Like, when I said "super skinny," I meant SUPER skinny! I knew she was bad, but I didn't realize HOW bad until I saw healthy beardies at the pet store the other day.

Because she won't leave her water dish but is still ridiculously dehydrated, the vet is pretty sure it's kidney trouble. She has all the symptoms.

I'm supposed to force feed her this omnivore ER diet until she gains enough weight to get a blood test, but the vet thinks she might not even make it that long :'(

 

[NikTait]

Oh dear, I'm sorry

The young ones are ever so fragile and sometimes no matter how good a Beardie owner you are, they just can't get past that stage

Don't give up on her though and I hope she pulls through - keep us updated!
But either way, definitely don't feel bad or anything because the effort you've put in and care you've taken to make sure everything is right is really brilliant