Suddenly not digesting BSFL

[Volt]

So the past couple days I noticed that Noot is suddenly passing whole BSFL in his poop... a couple were even alive! That was... well, horrific, and I'd hoped it was just a one-time occurrence, but it keeps happening now (thankfully no more live ones). It is still a typical color for him, and not runny. I am hoping it's just that he's outgrown his current size of worm and is just not chewing them properly anymore, but idk. I know I'll probably have to get a fecal done, but in the meantime I thought I'd ask for advice here

Temps
Basking: 102-106f depending
Warm side: 85-87f
Cool side: 77-79f
measured with digital probe

UVB
Reptisun T5 10.0 tube, about 8 inches above

Substrate
reptile carpet

Diet
BSFL (staple)
turnip greens and cilantro when he is so inclined
rare fruit or baby food treats

A few other notes:
My reptisun is about 6 months old at this point. I read frequently that the UVB should be replaced every 6 months, but the box says every 12 months. I'm not so sure what to do, but if it needs to be replaced I'll just go buy one tomorrow after work

His cage got quite dirty this past week (shamefully) due to me basically doing nothing but working and sleeping all week. It's clean now, and I'm back to a normal work schedule, but I am worried that it was like that.

He is still eating normally and alert and active. I have ordered some larger bsfl to see if it is a chewing issue

Thanks

 

[kingofnobbys]

So the past couple days I noticed that Noot is suddenly passing whole BSFL in his poop... a couple were even alive! That was... well, horrific, and I'd hoped it was just a one-time occurrence, but it keeps happening now (thankfully no more live ones). It is still a typical color for him, and not runny. I am hoping it's just that he's outgrown his current size of worm and is just not chewing them properly anymore, but idk. I know I'll probably have to get a fecal done, but in the meantime I thought I'd ask for advice here

Temps
Basking: 102-106f depending
Warm side: 85-87f
Cool side: 77-79f
measured with digital probe

UVB
Reptisun T5 10.0 tube, about 8 inches above

Substrate
reptile carpet

Diet
BSFL (staple)
turnip greens and cilantro when he is so inclined
rare fruit or baby food treats

A few other notes:
My reptisun is about 6 months old at this point. I read frequently that the UVB should be replaced every 6 months, but the box says every 12 months. I'm not so sure what to do, but if it needs to be replaced I'll just go buy one tomorrow after work <<<< Good idea to renew the tube now , since it's 6 months old , unless you have access to a ratiometer that measures UVB microwatt / sq-cm and it says the UVB is still high enough.
The old T5 is most likely only performing like a 5% UVB tube now , their output deteriorates as will time.

His cage got quite dirty this past week (shamefully) due to me basically doing nothing but working and sleeping all week. It's clean now, and I'm back to a normal work schedule, but I am worried that it was like that.
<<<< he might have picked up a tummy bug, if he is pooing partly digested worms ? Worth getting a fresh poo sample off to your vet so they can check for paracites. Should be very easy to treat and fix since you seem to have caught this early.

He is still eating normally and alert and active. I have ordered some larger bsfl to see if it is a chewing issue
<<<< might be he's a real glutton and has been overeating , but I think if this were the issue he'd be upchucking some worms.
Thanks

 

[EllenD]

Your hot-side temps at 85-87 are pretty low, which can also contribute to non-digested food in his poop. Your hot side should be between 95-98 degrees.

 

[Taterbug]

T5 UVB tubes easily last a year. I wouldnt rush to change that, but if you have a petstore that can test it that might be decent idea to know when to. Mine have lasted 12-18months easy. If you do replace it, mark how much use is on the bulb and keep it as a backup if your new one goes out.

BSFL are hardy maggots, it's not unheard of for them to take a ride through a lizard and come out wiggling. I've had them survive in my fish tank for a surprising long time too (I feed tiny ones to my betta). Is your dragon eating them faster or not chewing them as well? That would be my first guess.

 

[AHBD]

I agree with Tater, as a matter of fact that is even mentioned on the Phoenix worms " FAQ's", why the worms pass through like that at times.

 

[Volt]

Hi everyone, thanks for the replies!

I thought at first he just ate too much or too quickly since usually I handfeed him, but last week I had to just give him a bowl full of worms every day before I ran off to work, and handfed in the evening. However he seems to still be pooping them out even if I only give him a couple (which I did as an experiment). I am just concerned since I've had him on bsfl since the day I got him but this is only happening just now. He might just be eating too quickly though no matter how many I give him! He is a little pig after all :roll:

I have gone ahead and replaced his UVB to be safe and his heat bulb too. His larger worms should be here tomorrow so I will monitor his eating (and chewing!!!) and pooping and call the vet if there is no improvement in the next day or two!

 

[kingofnobbys]

T5 UVB tubes easily last a year.<<< if they are good quality they do. Doubt you'll get near that from a Zilla or ReptileOne or All Livings Things etc Chinese elcheapo T5 .

I wouldnt rush to change that, but if you have a petstore that can test it that might be decent idea to know when to.
<<<< if you don't know the brand of the T5 , they need a special scanning UV radiometer to determine the QUALITY OF THE UV SPECTRUM , just testing for UVI or microwatts UVA and or UVB / sq.cm will not tell you the spectrum quality. I doubt any pet shops will have a $2000 UV scanner , that's the stuff you will only find in university physics or chemistry laboratories or industrial / research labs.
Mine have lasted 12-18months easy. If you do replace it, mark how much use is on the bulb and keep it as a backup if your new one goes out. <<<< I don't recall the OP mentioning the brand of the T5 tube, or the UVB rating.
I still think unless he can confirm
>> it's brand = Zoo Med or Exo Terra or Arcadia
and
>> it's rated AT LEAST 10%
he will be wise to replace it since he hasn't a clue when it was first used , and because there is good chance it's an elcheapo shop brand tube made in china and most likely not even proper UVB tube.
Better safe than sorry.

BSFL are hardy maggots, it's not unheard of for them to take a ride through a lizard and come out wiggling. I've had them survive in my fish tank for a surprising long time too (I feed tiny ones to my betta). Is your dragon eating them faster or not chewing them as well? That would be my first guess. <<<< and not necessarily a bad indicator --- show he's a good eater , maybe a too enthusiastic

 

[kingofnobbys]

Hi everyone, thanks for the replies!

I thought at first he just ate too much or too quickly since usually I handfeed him, but last week I had to just give him a bowl full of worms every day before I ran off to work, and handfed in the evening. However he seems to still be pooping them out even if I only give him a couple (which I did as an experiment). I am just concerned since I've had him on bsfl since the day I got him but this is only happening just now. He might just be eating too quickly though no matter how many I give him! He is a little pig after all :roll:

I have gone ahead and replaced his UVB to be safe and his heat bulb too. His larger worms should be here tomorrow so I will monitor his eating (and chewing!!!) and pooping and call the vet if there is no improvement in the next day or two!

Well done ....

Try him out on something like medium (2inch) silkworms , very soft easy to digest bodies and don't move fast or far if you give them to him (presented on fresh mulberry leaf or a piece of silkworm chow , if he accidentially eats the mulberry leaf it wont hurt him, they are edible, chow is similar (since its made by dessicating mulberry leaves and then grinding them to make a fine powder).

I'd weigh a couple of silkworms and then try to match the collected body weight of the BSF maggots so you are giving about the same mass of insect protein.

Only guessing - he might eat 50 BSF maggot in a sitting , and each medium silkworm might be equiv mass to 15 maggots so 3 - 4 medium silkworms might be equiv to the usual mass of BSF maggots.

 

[kingofnobbys]

.....Your hot side should be between 95-98 degrees.

<<<< 95-98 F is pretty hot for the warm zone, but on the cool side for the basking spot.

 

[AHBD]

I don't know if you missed my post but please don't get worried ! This is so common that it is actually listed in the FAQ section of the Phoenix worms website, just Google it. Bigger lizards just gobble them up and since they are maggots and can withstand the digestive juices they sometimes come out whole + live. No need to change your lights + spend a lot of money. Just be sure to feed your dragon other high quality insects since he is not getting any nutrition from the BSFL at all unless you get him to chew them.

 

[CooperDragon]

When my dragon started doing that I just kept the container at room temp until they started hatching and I feed the flies to him instead. He loves them and can digest them easily.

 

[Picklepies]

When my dragon started doing that I just kept the container at room temp until they started hatching and I feed the flies to him instead. He loves them and can digest them easily.

Lol I do the same, mine seem to love the flow more than the worm x

 

[EllenD]

.....Your hot side should be between 95-98 degrees.

<<<< 95-98 F is pretty hot for the warm zone, but on the cool side for the basking spot.

I've always kept my cool sides between 75-80, my hot sides around 95, and my basking spots between 100-105 for adults and 105-110 max for babies/juveniles. No issues at all, the basking spots are dependent on each individual dragon, some like it warmer, some cooler, but as far as the hot sides I've always had them hover around 95.

 

[Volt]

Whoops I did miss your post AHBD! Perhaps I have gone and spooked myself :lol: First time owner and all... But I've been thinking of letting him try dubias for a while, so now is as good a time as any! He's also tried and LOVED silkworms, but somehow I found them gross so they are a "sometimes" special meal

One time I dropped a worm on the floor but couldn't find it, and I didn't really think anything of it. Many days later I came in my room to feed Noot and suddenly a BUG landed on the tank next to me. I went into full-on battle mode thinking it was a wasp in my room. Turns out the little worm I lost just turned into a fly!

 

[Taterbug]

T5 UVB tubes easily last a year.<<< if they are good quality they do. Doubt you'll get near that from a Zilla or ReptileOne or All Livings Things etc Chinese elcheapo T5 .

I wouldnt rush to change that, but if you have a petstore that can test it that might be decent idea to know when to.
<<<< if you don't know the brand of the T5 , they need a special scanning UV radiometer to determine the QUALITY OF THE UV SPECTRUM , just testing for UVI or microwatts UVA and or UVB / sq.cm will not tell you the spectrum quality. I doubt any pet shops will have a $2000 UV scanner , that's the stuff you will only find in university physics or chemistry laboratories or industrial / research labs.
Mine have lasted 12-18months easy. If you do replace it, mark how much use is on the bulb and keep it as a backup if your new one goes out. <<<< I don't recall the OP mentioning the brand of the T5 tube, or the UVB rating.
I still think unless he can confirm
>> it's brand = Zoo Med or Exo Terra or Arcadia
and
>> it's rated AT LEAST 10%
he will be wise to replace it since he hasn't a clue when it was first used , and because there is good chance it's an elcheapo shop brand tube made in china and most likely not even proper UVB tube.
Better safe than sorry.

BSFL are hardy maggots, it's not unheard of for them to take a ride through a lizard and come out wiggling. I've had them survive in my fish tank for a surprising long time too (I feed tiny ones to my betta). Is your dragon eating them faster or not chewing them as well? That would be my first guess. <<<< and not necessarily a bad indicator --- show he's a good eater , maybe a too enthusiastic

OP listed in the post the strength, the brand and age of this tube. It's really easy to scroll up and check that information before just laying down blanket statements and assuming OP isn't tracking the age or type of equptment they are using.

Solarmeters are about 250$ and for quality lamps (zoomed and Arcadia) they are a perfectly fine way to asses bulb strength; some pet stores (specialty ones typically) do have these meters and can check output for customers.