Substrate Mixture?

[GlueStick]

I had an idea to mix a sort of clay/sand like substance with soil (reg soil, no added fertilizers and such) as a substrate for an older bearded dragon.

Instead of using either sand or loose dirt, the sand/clay would make the soild stiff almost and reduce dust. (And guys, I'm not worried about him eating any of this substrate. Let me tell you right now that he is not fed anything live inside of the cage if he eats anything live anymore anyway... and his food bowls are deep and on top of a tile)

This is more for a naturalistic look, more floor space, reduction of respitory or eyes infection, and humidity control. Bacterial growth, to an extent, is welcomed. After all, everytime he does poop I pick it up right away and whatever remains, remains. Bacteria in our lives is beneficial, so a little bacteria in their lives won't hurt.

If I do this, I would like for everyone to have an open mind. A little background info for all of those who don't know me, or Aussie...

Aussie is 1yr and 8 months old. Eats anything live outside cage (mainly because I have a rock wall in their and the damn crickets get behind it and keep me and him up all night. I will never do that again) and has been on carpet and Non Adhesive shelf liner his entire life. And quite frankly, anything flat with poo on it has stained it pretty good. And yes, I was thinking about tile, but like all of you I was thinking of the ups and downs. Quite frankly I've been convinced of this route on my own.

On that note, please have this thread full of questions and conversation and not argument over what you or something else thinks is the best substrate and what is the worst substrate. This is an idea and I would like to go ahead with it by the opinions of my peers.

 

[PuffMagic]

I am a little bit confused as to what you want this thread to be about. Is it that you want to know what everyone uses for substrate and their own opinion on their own substrate or their own opinion about other peoples substrates and describe what they use? I think you have a great idea if I am following correct I love these types of threads.

 

[GlueStick]

Thank you. I just want to know what others think of my idea =D

I'm pretty educated on the substrates (cautions against bacteria concerns, respitory infec, eye infec, parasitical infec, intestinal infec, impaction, you name it) but so far it seems that most people use either/or substrate for their tanks.

Sand, in my opinion, is too dusty, unsanitary, and clumps way too easily (speaking of calci sand. Never had experience with playsand just yet, though I think that too is too dusty). Cleaning the tanks of some at work makes even I cough and weeze and rub my eyes.

Dirt is too moist and humid, speaking of eco earth here, and the coonut husk part of it makes concern for ingestion and mold growth.

Slate seems alright and may actually mix the two, but I've never really seen the natural side of using it. Sure, it files down the nails and is easy to clean, but a lizard is a lizard as is an animal is an animal. A dog, human, pig, monkey, or lizard would not want to live on something with similiar hardness to cement for its entire life. Too hard on the joints and certainly not fun.

So I just wanted to see how a mixture would turn out. Any opinions or recomendations are welcomed ^^

 

[Neromom39]

I had an idea to mix a sort of clay/sand like substance with soil (reg soil, no added fertilizers and such) as a substrate for an older bearded dragon.

Instead of using either sand or loose dirt, the sand/clay would make the soild stiff almost and reduce dust. (And guys, I'm not worried about him eating any of this substrate. Let me tell you right now that he is not fed anything live inside of the cage if he eats anything live anymore anyway... and his food bowls are deep and on top of a tile).

Personally, I like it. Should you choose to follow through, I would hope that you will post pictures or at least share the "recipe" as this might be something that we might be interested in. My husband is more into the "naturalistic" look. He replaced all of the sand from our enclosures with tile after he saw how upset I was for being called an "unloving pet owner" for having sand in my enclosures. I follow all of the same practices as you do, it's about education, responsibility and commitment to ensuring the health of your beardie(s). If you are not willing to do that, then a loose substrate is not the best choice for you.

Bacterial growth, to an extent, is welcomed. After all, everytime he does poop I pick it up right away and whatever remains, remains. Bacteria in our lives is beneficial, so a little bacteria in their lives won't hurt.

Again, I have to agree. The only way to be "bacteria free" is to be completely aseptic or sterile. I work in the Biotech industry and to be aseptic there are several chemicals that need to be used in order to achieve this. The process alone takes hours and it has to be done DAILY. Not every week or month, which is the common practice for most beardie owners for disinfecting the contents of the enclosures. And exposure to the chemicals would most definitely kill a beardie, because they are designed to kill EVERYTHING. Again, the commitment to being responsible is the key.

One vote YEA from me

 

[GlueStick]

Personally, I like it. Should you choose to follow through, I would hope that you will post pictures or at least share the "recipe" as this might be something that we might be interested in.

Thank you, and I am definetely going to take a visit to Home Depot tomorrow as with the pet store I work for. If it turns out well and to my standards, I will most pics and yes, definetely share the recipe ^^

I'm thinking playsand...with an unfertilized soil. I wonder if they have a clay substance? I would prefer it... I guess we'll see. Garden section of Home Depot... hmmmm. Sounds like an adventure to be had!

 

[TheVirus]

Hey Gluestick,

I use different dirt mixes in different enclosures. I have an enclosure that is top soil/playsand mix, one that is dirt from a forest/playsand mix, and another that is all three mixed. I like to shoot for a sandy loam with beardies.

The forest mix has more clay in it. It has it pros and cons. The pro is it holds a burrow very well. The con is its very dirty and my pretty dragons are pretty much the color of the soil.

All dirt is going to be dusty. Sand is less dusty. Salt water enthusiasts prep the sand before putting it in the tank. I'm sure you could do the same.

In order for the dirt to be usable (by the dragon) it has to be deep. For a male dragon it should be a minimum of six inches deep. More is better. For a female I'd say at least a foot.

You have to add water to make the dirt functional for the dragon. A dry substrate is a harsh substrate. A good dirt will allow for a burrow, without having to add water constantly. The air flow in your enclosure will determine how often you'll have to add water. Too much and you'll be adding water frequently. I add water about every 2-3 weeks. When I do add water, I pour alot in (think flash flood, not rainy day).

The problem with using an enriching substrate is you'll have to upgrade other aspects of your husbandry too. Its kind of like upgrading a part of your cars engine. The upgraded part will work better than the factory parts and it will break down. If you upgrade one part, you'll have to upgrade all parts. This means air flow, basking temps, light bulbs, feeding, basking areas, etc... Good luck!

 

[GlueStick]

Thank you so much!

I was thinking of using a topsoil/sand mix. I found playsand, silica free and washed, and was thinking about combining it with a topsoil called Earth Gro. Of course, I would screen out the larger pebbles, other than that looks to be a neat topsoil with no added fertilizers.

 

[GoFast]

could you take the fake rock background idea and modify it a bit? what I mean is this. Take the cement and dye/color it to your desired color and seal it. you could cut a piece of luan to the size of your enclosures floor and apply the concrete to that. just an idea

 

[DistDrag]

I like your idea and have been thinking of working on a substrate that would be similar to what they would have in nature. My biggest concern is about the humidity the soil would add to the enclosure. I'll be interested to hear how it works out for you if you go ahead with it.

Kevin

 

[GlueStick]

I've decided upon using playsand and a topsoil called Earth Gro.

I just need to know how you would prepare playsand?
And I am screening out the large pebbles from the Earth Gro.

 

[GlueStick]

could you take the fake rock background idea and modify it a bit? what I mean is this. Take the cement and dye/color it to your desired color and seal it. you could cut a piece of luan to the size of your enclosures floor and apply the concrete to that. just an idea

I don't think that I understand your suggestion/idea. I do have a rock wall in there (more like a rock ledge than wall)even though I am thinking about remaking one.

Do you want me to make a rock wall that covers the floor :?:

 

[GoFast]

could you take the fake rock background idea and modify it a bit? what I mean is this. Take the cement and dye/color it to your desired color and seal it. you could cut a piece of luan to the size of your enclosures floor and apply the concrete to that. just an idea

I don't think that I understand your suggestion/idea. I do have a rock wall in there (more like a rock ledge than wall)even though I am thinking about remaking one.

Do you want me to make a rock wall that covers the floor :?:

kind of. I am probably not explaining my thoughts that clearly so I'll try to di it a different way. It is so hard to describe things sometimes. When you make a fake rockwall background, you are simply imitating that with a substrate(styrofoam), cement, color, and sealer right? So my thinking is do the same thing, but instead of emulating a rock wall, emulate the sandy'ish, clay ground using the same materials. This way, you get the look of a more natural ground without all the side effects.

 

[GlueStick]

could you take the fake rock background idea and modify it a bit? what I mean is this. Take the cement and dye/color it to your desired color and seal it. you could cut a piece of luan to the size of your enclosures floor and apply the concrete to that. just an idea

I don't think that I understand your suggestion/idea. I do have a rock wall in there (more like a rock ledge than wall)even though I am thinking about remaking one.

Do you want me to make a rock wall that covers the floor :?:

kind of. I am probably not explaining my thoughts that clearly so I'll try to di it a different way. It is so hard to describe things sometimes. When you make a fake rockwall background, you are simply imitating that with a substrate(styrofoam), cement, color, and sealer right? So my thinking is do the same thing, but instead of emulating a rock wall, emulate the sandy'ish, clay ground using the same materials. This way, you get the look of a more natural ground without all the side effects.

Okay, I understand you better now ^^ and while that may sound like a great idea, cleaning up poop from a rockwall (and many may support ) is a pain in the butt! Sticks to the crevices, stains a bit.

I have his rockwall that is raised, covering nearly the entire floor space of his tank even though it has no contact with the bottom. He only has a limited aread to goooo and so decides to either poop on the log or rockwall or, usually in a tubberware container when I am home enough to catch him pacing.

It was a great idea though and, thank you for that ^^

 

[Shea Loner]

I think I like your Idea. And would like to know how it turns out for you. Personaly I plan on placing a layer of sand on the bottom then covering it with flat slate pieces, not tile but actual slate stones. I'm lucky enough to have a slate stream nearby
To prepare play sand you should place it in a clean bucket, cover with water, stir, then drain off the cloudy water on top before it settles. The play sand should stay in the bucket if you drain it slowly. Then it is a simple matter of repeating until the water runs clear. This takes out most of the fine dust particles. Then to dry it simply spread it out on a sheet pan and bake.
For the top soil I would seriously consider baking it as well. You never know what may have found it's way in there. To kill most soil born bacterias and any seeds in the mix it needs to reach a temp 180 degrees. this will essentially 'sterilize' the soil.

 

[SaintDavid]

You have to add water to make the dirt functional for the dragon. A dry substrate is a harsh substrate. A good dirt will allow for a burrow, without having to add water constantly. The air flow in your enclosure will determine how often you'll have to add water. Too much and you'll be adding water frequently. I add water about every 2-3 weeks. When I do add water, I pour alot in (think flash flood, not rainy day).

I wouldn't ever put water in beardies tank like that. That creates very high amounts of humidity in the tank. Beardies are desert animals and can get resperatory infections when the humidity levels are that high.