Stopped Eating, Hyper bouts of Digging Energy, Sleeping!?

[newbeardie79]

Hi there! I am a newbie at this... have had our lil gurl for about a month now, and am suprised at myself for how much I have become attached to her in such a short period of time!! Who woulda thought??---A Lizard!!--- :shock:

Anyhow, I am getting concerned with her recent behavior and am planning to take her tomorrow to see a vet...

BUT!--- if she is acting like a normal beardie and I'm just the typical stressed out new beardie mom, then I would LOVE to save the money as it will be a "rob Peter to Pay Paul" type of deal inorder to come up with, but if deemed necessary, I haven't got a choice, and we are going! :| :arrow:

Here are her symptoms: (I am hoping someone can shed some light on these "new" behaviors :study: )

Stopped Eating (Was actively "hunting" and eating crickets daily; a few super woms, and vegies--all daily. Now she wont even glance at them.)

Bowel Movements have slowed down to every 2-3 days. (i've tried bathes and massages)

Sudden, random, Hyper-Active Digging and window glass dancing.

Occassionally Scratching her face on the wood branch (basking log)

Sleeping and listlessness... she is definately going to extremes from digging to sleeping???

We have been told that she is a little over a year. She is enclosed in a 40 gal tank.
Has
1 x Reptisun 10.0 30" ,
1 x Reptiglo 10.0 18",
1 x heat lamp 150w ceramic/metal dish/bowl lamp;
1 x 75w blue heat light.
(We keep it very cool in the house...65-70F daily, so we have added the extra heat and the probe reads good temps. that way. LOL)

The temp gauge reads 91-101 F under her basking area, 80 on the other end.

Humidity is between 20-30. She is on "rabbit like" substrate recommended by the reptile store we go to.
I can't really think of anything else at the moment...

I'm just worried about her because she stopped eating and is usually sleeping a lot. Any ideas? Thanks SOOO much in advance!!

 

[Embee]

Hi and welcome. Indeed, who knew lizards were so charming and capable of stealing our hearts? I know exactly what you mean. :love5:

I'm sorry you're dragon isn't feeling well. Thank you for giving us some information on her enclosure, very helpful.

Ok, first things first. :mrgreen: There is such a thing as TOO MUCH UVB and in a 40 breeder, this could be causing problems for you as there is really no need for more than one UVB source. The ReptiSun 10.0 tube is an excellent bulb, and more than sufficient. The ReptiGlo 10.0 tube OTOH, has been known to cause trouble, as it emits low and inconsistent UVB rays, causing lack of appetite, slow/stunted growth, and can even let through UVC rays which can cause eye issues or worse. My best advice is to just go with the ReptiSun 10.0 tube and leave it at that. So long is it covers at least half the tank it's fine and you'll want to shift the strip to the basking end of the tank like this:

_______tube
0 basking bulb

...so that beardie has benefit of both bulbs while basking. Also, make sure beardie can get to within 6-8 inches of the ReptiSun while basking. And, know she's not eating but are you using calcium and vite dust for feeders, usually?

Turn off the ReptiGlo ASAP. Here is a link to a thread with more information on the ReptiGlo: viewtopic.php?f=34&t=101703&p=793076&hilit=ReptiGlo+10.0#p793076

I'm unclear on your heating bulbs. I can tell you that colored bulbs are not recommended for beardies, as they have no use for them, really. The other you mention "ceramic, etc" and I'm not clear on what this is. are you describing a ceramic heat emitter? Is it offering beardie bright white light? The reason I ask is that beardies need their heat to be in the form of bright white light, not only for basking, UVA and mental health, but as a guard for their eyes against the UVB light. This can be a basking light, or even a regular household incandescent or flood or spot, so long as it provides proper temps and bright white light. It's possible that the glass dancing is her way of telling you that she is uncomfortable in her environment, either the light is too much or not right, or the heat is too much, and with that:

I understand that your room temp is on the lower end, and you say you are gauging with a digital/probe thermometer, but I must say that your heat bulbs seem "over the top" of what would be needed for a 40 breeder. Our beardie is in a room that is about 68-69 during the day. We use a 100w MVB, and a 40w incandescent on the cool side (supplemental bulb only needed in cooler months). Your basking temps seem rather "rangy." When you are gauging basking temps, are you placing the probe directly on the basking surface, under the heat lamp? For a young beardie (juvenile to 1 - 1 1/2 years), temps should run, 105-110 basking, 85-90 mid-tank, and cool side, about 80. Also, when taking temps with a probe, you must leave the probe for 45 minutesto get the accurate temp. Too high of temps can cause lethargy, lack of appetite, dehydration, or worse. That said, if your beardie is over a year, she might be getting to her full size and needing temps to come down a tad... what is your beardie's size, tip of nose to tip of tail?

Good that you are bathing beardie, as you would want to in any case (2-4 times per week, baby warm water up to shoulders for 15-20 min.).

Also, when you say "rabbit like" substrate, I'm not sure what you mean exactly, but I'm going to assume that this means "loose" type substrate. Loose substrates are not recommended for beardies as they are an impaction risk. Best substrates for beardies are tile, slate, repti-carpet, shelf-liner, paper towel.

Ok, I'll leave you with that, and those questions for now.

The best,
Em

 

[newbeardie79]

So sorry for the delayed responce... I've been busy buying all the upgrades that you had recommended...hehehehe! So we gave her a whole new cage makeover in hopes to bring her back to her normal self. Sure enough, later that day once we set everything up, she became very active... then we were out all day yesterday and came home to find that she had LAID ONE EGG!!! ) She has not been anywhere near a male so we know it's not fertile.

But now that leads to my next delema. (Geesh!! Doesn't she know we are rookies at this bearded dragon care stuff??!! LOL :lol: )
Since she is with eggs... and has laid one... How do we go about setting up a good place for her to lay the rest of her eggs as she seems to be holding the rest?

Thank again SO much for all your advise!!

Here are a few pictures:

 

[Embee]

Well, I guess we know what the digging was all about. :wink: Being that you have her on the rabbit substrate, she will probably just go ahead and use that to dig and lay. People with solid substrates will sometimes put a sand box in for a dragon who is laying. As for removing the eggs, I'm not sure how long to wait... not sure if this will upset her or not. I know you're not actively breeding, but the "breeding" forum would probably be able to answer that better than I could.

I'm glad she's more active and feeling better. It's amazing how quickly they bounce back when the enclosure set up is "just right." I've had this experience myself, and what a relief it was! When you said you had her a month, I mistakenly assumed she was a younger dragon. What is her age exactly, do you know? The reason I ask is because if she is older than say 1 1/2 years, you can actually keep your basking temps down a bit to 95-100 or so. Adults don't need the higher heat as they are not consuming near the feeders of a baby or juvenile.

The best,
Em

 

[Embee]

Oh, I almost forgot... she is lovely.

 

[newbeardie79]

Hey Em,

Just wanted to thank you for all your help! She has definately changed with the right temps!! I will seek more info. with those on the breeding forum as to how to eccorage her to lay. When we took her in about a month ago, they said that she was "round a year old?? So, unfortunately your guess is as good as mine. She is 16inches long though.

So funny, I keep thinking to myself...'I never thought I'd get so attached to her!' I actually have to remind myself to watch how I divide my attention now amoung our other pets (and family members sometimes!! LOL), and not give it all to her! LOL!

So, thank you again for all the info. and advice! :study:

 

[Embee]

So funny, I keep thinking to myself...'I never thought I'd get so attached to her!' I actually have to remind myself to watch how I divide my attention now amoung our other pets (and family members sometimes!! LOL), and not give it all to her! LOL!

Beardies have a way of making us their willing and devoted slaves. :wink:

Em -doting beardie grandma (that has been accused of "bogarting the beardie" on numerous occasions )

 

[Rosebud]

newbeardie79, I would remove that substrate. Beardies have a tricky digestive track and they lick everything, and can become impacted easily on the wrong substrate. Tile, reptile carpet, and even sifted play sand would be better. I only use tile in my vivs because I have had to rehab LOTS of impacted beardies, so I don't take a chance. Then when my girls need to lay, I add the lay box and remove it when they finish. Some people do like to use the play box sand and never have problems, but I worry about bacteria and impaction.

Everything else about your setup sounds good and she looks good. Just add the lay box as outsider mentioned in your other thread, and do visit the vet if she doesn't lay by Monday. He can give her a drug that will induce labor. Also, give her a warm bath once a day until she lays and see if she will at least drink. The anorexia (not eating) is not as worrisome as potential dehydration, so you really do have to make sure that she takes in fluid. :wink:

 

[NeedleDragon]

Your beardie scratching on the cage and digging alot is normal but i have many concerns with your cage set up. Rocks will hurt him when he digs so id buy 2 packs of sand. Thats what i did. when hes trying to scratch on the cage wall that means hes to hot and theirs no cold spot or he wants to play. him sleeping alot just means hes tired from all the hes done.the eating issue yur gonno have to ask someone else bout that

 

[Embee]

Your beardie scratching on the cage and digging alot is normal but i have many concerns with your cage set up. Rocks will hurt him when he digs so id buy 2 packs of sand. Thats what i did. when hes trying to scratch on the cage wall that means hes to hot and theirs no cold spot or he wants to play. him sleeping alot just means hes tired from all the hes done.the eating issue yur gonno have to ask someone else bout that

Hi NeedleDragon,

As the OP mentioned, the substrate is rabbit pellets, not rocks. :wink: I mentioned in my first reply that loose substrates of any kind (including pellets, AND sand) are not recommended for beardies due to the risk of impaction, and Rosebud reiterated (along with offering some lovely dig box suggestions of which I myself am taking note of for when our dear girl decides to lay eggs ). At any rate, I'm not sure what the OP is planning to do about about the substrate, if anything. The information has been offered in any case.

As stated in the OP's second post, there have been lighting and heating changes already made to the enclosure (as suggested in my first post) and her dragon is eating better now, and is more calm, but active (dancing less, sleeping less). I would like to point out here that excessive sleeping/hiding can actually a sign of real trouble for a dragon, and husbandry is usually the culprit (i.e., UVB lighting). She is digging of course, because she is laying. :mrgreen:

I just posted this so that newbeardie79 isn't thrown off by the differing information.

The best to you,
Em

 

[newbeardie79]

You guys rock!!!!

She laid 20 eggs (21 including the one two days ago)!!!!

I took some pictures and will try to post them tomorrow for others who may have the same questions as I had. (she really did try to dig to China!! LOL!!! :lol:

I took her out of the lay box and gave her a warm bath, where she drank. Then put her back in her home and under her lamps. I tried feeding her crickets, mustard greens, apple, and even super worms...but she is STILL showing NO interest in food??? Her belly doesn't really have any stress spots, but she is really dark. Is this "normal" beardie behavior?

I'm sooooooo relieved, BUT am still not completely happy as she still ins't eating!!?? I know its only been a matter of a few hours, but I'm still worried. Should I be? I don't feel anything left inside of her belly. And I know she was done as she had re-burried her den.

THANK YOU AGAIN SO MUCH EVERYONE!! Elliot and I am so greatfull for you all!!

 

[Embee]

Oh, somehow from your first reply back I got the impression that she was "back to her old self" active, and I assumed eating as well from the tone of your post. I didn't realize her appetite was still off. That said, I'm not exactly sure of the effect that laying would have on appetite, but my guess is that it has caused her some discomfort and could very well have quelled her appetite during the process (much like the discomfort of shedding does for many dragons). Perhaps after she's had a day to "decompress" from all the laying activity, she'll be up and eating once again. Our dragon turns dark when she is not feeling well before a shed, so yes, this is normal for a dragon who is feeling off. And well, I'd think laying those big ol' eggs could certainly make a dragon feel off! :wink:

Again, a posted question in "breeding" might bring you a more precise answer.

The best,
Em