Spreading growths on dragon.

[kingofnobbys]

Hey, just a few questions that I know my vet will ask:

1.) Except for the black lesions (and the red, though I can't really tell what the morphology of the red stuff is), he is acting normally? He's eating normally, not list any weight? He's not at all lethargic? Has he shown any other signs or symptoms besides the external lesions since the lesions appeared?
2.) How old is he? He is definitely male?
3.) What basking light(s) do you use (Brand, model, and wattage)? What UVB light do you use (Brand, model, size, and type (coil, compact, tube)/(T8, T5)? How long has he been under these specific lights? Did you change his lighting or get new bulbs around the time these lesions appeared?
4.) I believe you said you first noticed the lesions in February? Prior to February did he ever show any other skin lesions or issues?
5.) What parts of his body does he currently have the lesions on? Are the lesions segregated to a specific part of his body?
6.) Besides the Betadine soaks and topical antibiotic ointment, what other topical meds and home remedies have you tried? What antibiotics did the first vet prescribe?

****Maybe it's just the photo, but you seem to say that these black lesions are mostly located on his back legs, and it looks like he's missing one toenail on his right back foot and ALL of his toenails on his left back foot. Is that correct? Did that happen before or after the lesions appeared?****

Hi .
1) Yes and yes. He eats his meals each day as soon as they're given. I'm surprised I don't draw back a nub with the way he goes after them lol, and has only gained weight. No, he is not lethargic, in fact, he's quite active. No.
2) About a year and a half - the reptile store didn't tell me when he hatched, but when I got him last may he was 3 months old, and yes. He is a male.
3) I use a Fluker's 10'' clamp lamp with a 150 W bulb. His UVB lamp is a Zoo med Reptisun
is it one of these https://zoomed.com/t8-reptisun-10-0-uvb/ ?
or
is it one of these https://zoomed.com/t5-ho-reptisun-10-0-uvb/ ?
or
is it one of these https://zoomed.com/reptisun-10-0-compact-fluorescent/ ?
if it is what is it's UVB rating (5% or 10%) ?
if it is what is it's wattage (13W or 26W) ?
and how is it mounted (vertical in a dome , or horizontal in small reflector hood) ?
is it sitting ontop of the viv screen mesh lid or under it ?
how old is this UVB light ? (over 6 months old ?)
and how close can he get to the UVB globe or tube ? ... photos of lights and setup

and the rest I have no idea what they mean lol. I just replaced the bulbs and the heating lamp is brand new as I wanted to get a hotter lamp. The UVB has been the same - just a replaced bulb.
<<< the lights have been off for a while take bulbs out and read the info printed on them .... very easy to do , and you can then reinstall them and report back with the details.

But the heating lamp is also the same brands I used before. No, the lights have always been the same up until last week, when I got him a hotter lamp.
4) Correct and no.
5) Kind of. His belly and the softer parts of his body tend to be affected - the underside. Two new bumps on his beard just appeared. Similar appearance, but darker. <<< these are there spreading by contact with infected surfaces.
6) I haven't tried anything at home for fear of giving him something that's poisonous, since I really don't know what's toxic and what's not - I don't want to take chances with him. And honestly? I have no idea what he prescribed. He didn't tell me <<< pretty obvious the home remedies are NOT WORKING and may even be making this condition worse . Pick up the phone and call them as ask what it was , they will have this on their records and it will be very quick and easy for them look it up and tell you..

 

[Cloudkyt]

Hey, I called my Certified Reptile Vet at home (he's a good guy and a friend) and he made a call and came up with these veterinarians as being members of ARAV, so they are the best Reptile and Amphibian specialists in the Miami area. He is also going to take a look at the photos and call me back, but he wanted to know if the lesions feel rock hard, or do they feel like they may have fluid I side them. I told him that to me they look to have defined borders and look to be hard and implanted in the skin, as to me they almost look like black plantar's warts.

Here's the vets, and I'll get back to you after he looks at the photos and calls me...Oh, he 100% agreed with me that the 3 bacteria that the lesions tested positive for are normal bacteria that live on the skin, and most likely have nothing at all to do with the cause of them. The only way that the bacteria would be involved is if they actually had drained fluid from inside the lesions and found the bacteria inside the fluid. If they don't tested a skin scraping and found those 3 bacteria present then it most likely means nothing and whatever antibiotics he was put on was a complete waste of time and money, and would only serve to mess up his system.
.

Robert Pane
South Kendall Animal Clinic
9501 SW 160th St.
Miami, FL

Greg Rupp
Animal House Veterinary Hospital
12385 Pembroke Rd
Pembroke Pines, FL

Sam Strauss
4585 Weston Rd
Weston, FL

He said the first one, Robert Pane, is board certified

HOLY CRAP THANK YOU this is a huge help to me and my mom (since she LOVES Renekton too!). And yes, the lesions are as hard as a rock right now!

 

[kingofnobbys]

Hey, I called my Certified Reptile Vet at home (he's a good guy and a friend) and he made a call and came up with these veterinarians as being members of ARAV, so they are the best Reptile and Amphibian specialists in the Miami area. He is also going to take a look at the photos and call me back, but he wanted to know if the lesions feel rock hard, or do they feel like they may have fluid I side them. I told him that to me they look to have defined borders and look to be hard and implanted in the skin, as to me they almost look like black plantar's warts.

Here's the vets, and I'll get back to you after he looks at the photos and calls me...Oh, he 100% agreed with me that the 3 bacteria that the lesions tested positive for are normal bacteria that live on the skin, and most likely have nothing at all to do with the cause of them. The only way that the bacteria would be involved is if they actually had drained fluid from inside the lesions and found the bacteria inside the fluid. If they don't tested a skin scraping and found those 3 bacteria present then it most likely means nothing and whatever antibiotics he was put on was a complete waste of time and money, and would only serve to mess up his system.
.

Robert Pane
South Kendall Animal Clinic
9501 SW 160th St.
Miami, FL

Greg Rupp
Animal House Veterinary Hospital
12385 Pembroke Rd
Pembroke Pines, FL

Sam Strauss
4585 Weston Rd
Weston, FL

He said the first one, Robert Pane, is board certified

HOLY CRAP THANK YOU this is a huge help to me and my mom (since she LOVES Renekton too!). And yes, the lesions are as hard as a rock right now!

Prepare yourselves - it may be necessary for the vet eventually to surgically remove them ....

 

[Cloudkyt]

Hey, just a few questions that I know my vet will ask:

1.) Except for the black lesions (and the red, though I can't really tell what the morphology of the red stuff is), he is acting normally? He's eating normally, not list any weight? He's not at all lethargic? Has he shown any other signs or symptoms besides the external lesions since the lesions appeared?
2.) How old is he? He is definitely male?
3.) What basking light(s) do you use (Brand, model, and wattage)? What UVB light do you use (Brand, model, size, and type (coil, compact, tube)/(T8, T5)? How long has he been under these specific lights? Did you change his lighting or get new bulbs around the time these lesions appeared?
4.) I believe you said you first noticed the lesions in February? Prior to February did he ever show any other skin lesions or issues?
5.) What parts of his body does he currently have the lesions on? Are the lesions segregated to a specific part of his body?
6.) Besides the Betadine soaks and topical antibiotic ointment, what other topical meds and home remedies have you tried? What antibiotics did the first vet prescribe?

****Maybe it's just the photo, but you seem to say that these black lesions are mostly located on his back legs, and it looks like he's missing one toenail on his right back foot and ALL of his toenails on his left back foot. Is that correct? Did that happen before or after the lesions appeared?****

Hi .
1) Yes and yes. He eats his meals each day as soon as they're given. I'm surprised I don't draw back a nub with the way he goes after them lol, and has only gained weight. No, he is not lethargic, in fact, he's quite active. No.
2) About a year and a half - the reptile store didn't tell me when he hatched, but when I got him last may he was 3 months old, and yes. He is a male.
3) I use a Fluker's 10'' clamp lamp with a 150 W bulb. His UVB lamp is a Zoo med Reptisun
is it one of these https://zoomed.com/t8-reptisun-10-0-uvb/ ?
or
is it one of these https://zoomed.com/t5-ho-reptisun-10-0-uvb/ ?
or
is it one of these https://zoomed.com/reptisun-10-0-compact-fluorescent/ ?
if it is what is it's UVB rating (5% or 10%) ?
if it is what is it's wattage (13W or 26W) ?
and how is it mounted (vertical in a dome , or horizontal in small reflector hood) ?
is it sitting ontop of the viv screen mesh lid or under it ?
how old is this UVB light ? (over 6 months old ?)
and how close can he get to the UVB globe or tube ? ... photos of lights and setup

and the rest I have no idea what they mean lol. I just replaced the bulbs and the heating lamp is brand new as I wanted to get a hotter lamp. The UVB has been the same - just a replaced bulb.
<<< the lights have been off for a while take bulbs out and read the info printed on them .... very easy to do , and you can then reinstall them and report back with the details.

But the heating lamp is also the same brands I used before. No, the lights have always been the same up until last week, when I got him a hotter lamp.
4) Correct and no.
5) Kind of. His belly and the softer parts of his body tend to be affected - the underside. Two new bumps on his beard just appeared. Similar appearance, but darker. <<< these are there spreading by contact with infected surfaces.
6) I haven't tried anything at home for fear of giving him something that's poisonous, since I really don't know what's toxic and what's not - I don't want to take chances with him. And honestly? I have no idea what he prescribed. He didn't tell me <<< pretty obvious the home remedies are NOT WORKING and may even be making this condition worse . Pick up the phone and call them as ask what it was , they will have this on their records and it will be very quick and easy for them look it up and tell you..

https://zoomed.com/reptisun-10-0-compact-fluorescent/
It's on top of the viv screen.
It's in a vertical dome and he can get within 5 inches of the bulb. He's got a medium log to sit on. The bulb is about 3 months old since my other one died. The bulb doesn't say anthing itself. So, I have no idea the wattage or the UVB rating.
Also, as I said, I have NOT used any home remedies for fear of poisoning him. I have his files, but they're very hard to read. I ran out of the antibiotic in April and haven't used any since then.

 

[kingofnobbys]

Hey, just a few questions that I know my vet will ask:

1.) Except for the black lesions (and the red, though I can't really tell what the morphology of the red stuff is), he is acting normally? He's eating normally, not list any weight? He's not at all lethargic? Has he shown any other signs or symptoms besides the external lesions since the lesions appeared?
2.) How old is he? He is definitely male?
3.) What basking light(s) do you use (Brand, model, and wattage)? What UVB light do you use (Brand, model, size, and type (coil, compact, tube)/(T8, T5)? How long has he been under these specific lights? Did you change his lighting or get new bulbs around the time these lesions appeared?
4.) I believe you said you first noticed the lesions in February? Prior to February did he ever show any other skin lesions or issues?
5.) What parts of his body does he currently have the lesions on? Are the lesions segregated to a specific part of his body?
6.) Besides the Betadine soaks and topical antibiotic ointment, what other topical meds and home remedies have you tried? What antibiotics did the first vet prescribe?

****Maybe it's just the photo, but you seem to say that these black lesions are mostly located on his back legs, and it looks like he's missing one toenail on his right back foot and ALL of his toenails on his left back foot. Is that correct? Did that happen before or after the lesions appeared?****

Hi .
1) Yes and yes. He eats his meals each day as soon as they're given. I'm surprised I don't draw back a nub with the way he goes after them lol, and has only gained weight. No, he is not lethargic, in fact, he's quite active. No.
2) About a year and a half - the reptile store didn't tell me when he hatched, but when I got him last may he was 3 months old, and yes. He is a male.
3) I use a Fluker's 10'' clamp lamp with a 150 W bulb. His UVB lamp is a Zoo med Reptisun
is it one of these https://zoomed.com/t8-reptisun-10-0-uvb/ ?
or
is it one of these https://zoomed.com/t5-ho-reptisun-10-0-uvb/ ?
or
is it one of these https://zoomed.com/reptisun-10-0-compact-fluorescent/ ?
if it is what is it's UVB rating (5% or 10%) ?
if it is what is it's wattage (13W or 26W) ?
and how is it mounted (vertical in a dome , or horizontal in small reflector hood) ?
is it sitting ontop of the viv screen mesh lid or under it ?
how old is this UVB light ? (over 6 months old ?)
and how close can he get to the UVB globe or tube ? ... photos of lights and setup

and the rest I have no idea what they mean lol. I just replaced the bulbs and the heating lamp is brand new as I wanted to get a hotter lamp. The UVB has been the same - just a replaced bulb.
<<< the lights have been off for a while take bulbs out and read the info printed on them .... very easy to do , and you can then reinstall them and report back with the details.

But the heating lamp is also the same brands I used before. No, the lights have always been the same up until last week, when I got him a hotter lamp.
4) Correct and no.
5) Kind of. His belly and the softer parts of his body tend to be affected - the underside. Two new bumps on his beard just appeared. Similar appearance, but darker. <<< these are there spreading by contact with infected surfaces.
6) I haven't tried anything at home for fear of giving him something that's poisonous, since I really don't know what's toxic and what's not - I don't want to take chances with him. And honestly? I have no idea what he prescribed. He didn't tell me <<< pretty obvious the home remedies are NOT WORKING and may even be making this condition worse . Pick up the phone and call them as ask what it was , they will have this on their records and it will be very quick and easy for them look it up and tell you..

https://zoomed.com/reptisun-10-0-compact-fluorescent/
It's on top of the viv screen.
It's in a vertical dome and he can get within 5 inches of the bulb. He's got a medium log to sit on. The bulb is about 3 months old since my other one died. The bulb doesn't say anthing itself. So, I have no idea the wattage or the UVB rating.
Also, as I said, I have NOT used any home remedies for fear of poisoning him. I have his files, but they're very hard to read. I ran out of the antibiotic in April and haven't used any since then.

<<< worth moving the dome housing the compact UVB globe so it is danging from the mesh lid (for now , or investing in a EXOTERRA NANOHOOD to mount the bulb in) until you can get a t5ho 10%UVB - 12%UVB tube and reflector hood (which will need to be mounted under the lid).
He will not be getting sufficient UVA or UVB with the existing compact UVB even if it's 26W 10%UVB globe (this I can guarantee to you) as it's not got sufficient penetrating power), he needs to be able to get inside 6 inches from the globe surface.

I use these http://www.exo-terra.com/en/products/compact_top.php to mount my 26W UVB200 (10%UVB) compacts for my beardies, and allow them to get inside 8 inches from their UVB globes. .

 

[Cloudkyt]

Hey, I called my Certified Reptile Vet at home (he's a good guy and a friend) and he made a call and came up with these veterinarians as being members of ARAV, so they are the best Reptile and Amphibian specialists in the Miami area. He is also going to take a look at the photos and call me back, but he wanted to know if the lesions feel rock hard, or do they feel like they may have fluid I side them. I told him that to me they look to have defined borders and look to be hard and implanted in the skin, as to me they almost look like black plantar's warts.

Here's the vets, and I'll get back to you after he looks at the photos and calls me...Oh, he 100% agreed with me that the 3 bacteria that the lesions tested positive for are normal bacteria that live on the skin, and most likely have nothing at all to do with the cause of them. The only way that the bacteria would be involved is if they actually had drained fluid from inside the lesions and found the bacteria inside the fluid. If they don't tested a skin scraping and found those 3 bacteria present then it most likely means nothing and whatever antibiotics he was put on was a complete waste of time and money, and would only serve to mess up his system.
.

Robert Pane
South Kendall Animal Clinic
9501 SW 160th St.
Miami, FL

Greg Rupp
Animal House Veterinary Hospital
12385 Pembroke Rd
Pembroke Pines, FL

Sam Strauss
4585 Weston Rd
Weston, FL

He said the first one, Robert Pane, is board certified

HOLY CRAP THANK YOU this is a huge help to me and my mom (since she LOVES Renekton too!). And yes, the lesions are as hard as a rock right now!

Prepare yourselves - it may be necessary for the vet eventually to surgically remove them ....

Yes, I know. I have also prepared myself in case he begins to suffer because of the lesions; I don't want to keep him alive if he's suffering because of the lesions and there is no way to reduce that. I'm in training to become a veterinary assistant, and I hate seeing animals in pain, and if euthanasia is the only possible option that will take away their pain, I'm the kind of person to take it, even if I'm terribly attached to the animal. Surgery is nothing compared to having a long, happy life, even if he only has three limbs - I can work with that.

 

[AHBD]

Do you have pics of the new sores ? Good that you have references to some reptile vets now, hopefully they'll be of some help. Right now one of the best things you can use that is beating out other wound treatments is raw honey, and it can only help, never hurt. It's a powerful antimicrobial being used more + more, even in a children's cancer center in Bonne Germany for wounds that have not responded to other treatment. It's also being used with great results on animals.....here's a link . Scroll just a short way down to see the graphic pics of wounds that were healed on a cat.


https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwi1k-C389bUAhXE7CYKHavSAKQQFgg7MAI&url=http%3A%2F%2Fhealthypets.mercola.com%2Fsites%2Fhealthypets%2Farchive%2F2015%2F07%2F23%2Fmanuka-honey.aspx&usg=AFQjCNG8g0CTk-CR4zCfIZhH1wsiK_oDDA

Also from the clinic in Germany: pics are very graphic !
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjrxu2N9dbUAhWB3SYKHZp6A9YQFggxMAE&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.sciencedaily.com%2Freleases%2F2006%2F07%2F060727090308.htm&usg=AFQjCNHiTJNJa7XZbffmnp-FocMUENLVRw

 

[AHBD]

And here's an article [ with many references ] about clinical observations of honey used on the very bacteria that your dragon has. It doesn't have to be Manuka honey, any raw, unpasteurized honey will be good. Your dragon [ if it was diagnosed correctly ] has bacterial infections which are vresistant to most antibiotics. The antifungal creams probably won't help them ether.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjOxpTS_dbUAhUBOCYKHXZNBFkQFggoMAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov%2Fpmc%2Farticles%2FPMC3609166%2F&usg=AFQjCNFeICi-5fn4txpLEvge_cCNJhbtLA

 

[EllenD]

Well my vet called me back last night after looking at your photos, and he seems pretty convinced it's a fungal infection that is spreading externally due to contact. He said you need to make an appointment with one of the certified Reptile vets (and he said to specifically ask about bearded dragon experience when you call to make the appointment; also tell them it's emergent at this point) and insist upon them doing another skin scraping as well as a needle aspiration to check for any fluid. He said he's pretty sure they are fibrous lesions with no fluid, but you want to be sure. If by chance they do get fluid then insist upon a culture of the fluid.

He said it's possible that the lesions are caused originally by a fungal infection, and that needs to be treated with the appropriate antifungal medications for the specific fungal infection he has, and he would most likely use a topical prescription antifungal along with oral antifungals and possibly a starter injectable antifungal to get him started. So that's treating the actual cause, but it's also possible that the individual lesions may become infected with bacteria and basically become abscessed, in which case they may need to be surgically removed, but hopefully the antifungal treatments will cause the lesions to shrink and go away on their own without surgery. Usually fungal infections are spread out over large areas and are not individual growths with defined borders, so he didn't seem to think it was Yellow Fungus, though there's no way to know for sure without tests. He said basic blood work wouldn't be a bad idea either. He seemed positive because he is still eating and acting normally, which is not indicative of a bacterial infection, usually they get very sick from bacterial infections. So he seemed to think that this shouldn't be too difficult to treat as long as an experienced reptile vet did the correct testing to diagnose the specific fungus.

He also said to tell you that if the vet wants to start treatment without testing first to find out what it is to say no, you want skin scrapings and a needle aspiration to actually diagnose the cause, because blindly trying out meds is just a waste of more time. He said to ask a lot of questions, get copies of all test results, and be stern with them. Don't just go along with the vet if you're not happy with what he's saying or doing. Your beardie is still active, eating, and not in pain as of now, and it's important to properly diagnose him to keep him that way.

He told me to mention that there is always the possibility that the growths are a virus, a bacterium, or skin cancer, he obviously can't diagnose just by looking, but he's basing what he's saying on 20 years of experience.