Spirochetes infection...darn it!

[Axil]

The only articles I found on this species of bugs in beardies, were articles about it causing pharyngitis? If this were the case, with a sore throat, he wouldn't be eating like the piglet he is.

I am still stumped.

Thank you for searching articles about this.

At this point, I feel like I may need to leave well enough alone.

If he doesn't seem to be suffering as a result of the infection I would be reluctant to treat as well. Especially if the vet wasn't able to give me a specific risks about the the progression of the infection.

That said if I'd already went through a round of treatment like you did I would be curious to see what effect it had on the infection. Whether or not it's worth whatever a fecal exam would cost or the possibility you'll feel pressured to take additional action is up to you. Remember ultimately you make the decisions on whether to treat your animal.

I come from the aquatics hobby and very well informed people would make polar opposite decisions on care.

Some would treat prophylacticaly with broadband antibiotics periodically and every time new stock was introduced. Some would almost never use antibiotics even for severe outbreaks and utilize methods like tempature management and herbal remedies like garlic. (Please don't use garlic for your Dragon, I have no idea if it has any of the benefits it does for fish and for all I know it's toxic)

You are obviously working very hard to do the right things for the creature in your care, and you have every right to make these decisions. I wish you and your Dragon the best regardless of how you choose to proceed.

 

[shmoomunchkin]

If he doesn't seem to be suffering as a result of the infection I would be reluctant to treat as well. Especially if the vet wasn't able to give me a specific risks about the the progression of the infection.

That said if I'd already went through a round of treatment like you did I would be curious to see what effect it had on the infection. Whether or not it's worth whatever a fecal exam would cost or the possibility you'll feel pressured to take additional action is up to you. Remember ultimately you make the decisions on whether to treat your animal.

I come from the aquatics hobby and very well informed people would make polar opposite decisions on care.

Some would treat prophylacticaly with broadband antibiotics periodically and every time new stock was introduced. Some would almost never use antibiotics even for severe outbreaks and utilize methods like tempature management and herbal remedies like garlic. (Please don't use garlic for your Dragon, I have no idea if it has any of the benefits it does for fish and for all I know it's toxic)

You are obviously working very hard to do the Thank you Axil for this post. right things for the creature in your care, and you have every right to make these decisions. I wish you and your Dragon the best regardless of how you choose to proceed.

 

[xp29]

He looks good nice thick tail but he don't look over weight.

 

[shmoomunchkin]

If he doesn't seem to be suffering as a result of the infection I would be reluctant to treat as well. Especially if the vet wasn't able to give me a specific risks about the the progression of the infection.

That said if I'd already went through a round of treatment like you did I would be curious to see what effect it had on the infection. Whether or not it's worth whatever a fecal exam would cost or the possibility you'll feel pressured to take additional action is up to you. Remember ultimately you make the decisions on whether to treat your animal.

I come from the aquatics hobby and very well informed people would make polar opposite decisions on care.

Some would treat prophylacticaly with broadband antibiotics periodically and every time new stock was introduced. Some would almost never use antibiotics even for severe outbreaks and utilize methods like tempature management and herbal remedies like garlic. (Please don't use garlic for your Dragon, I have no idea if it has any of the benefits it does for fish and for all I know it's toxic)

You are obviously working very hard to do the right things for the creature in your care, and you have every right to make these decisions. I wish you and your Dragon the best regardless of how you choose to proceed.

Thank you so much for this reasonable post...I very much value opinions from beardie parents.

If, I was more confident in my beardie experience, I would have said no to the treatment, because this is an outlier infection.

I am still kind of reeling from a young beardie who died in my care (congenital kidney disease, that I couldn't do anything about). Though I know logically, that I did my best for him, I am so very hyper-vigalent about this one.

Sigh. I truly did not enjoy my guy's early baby months because I was so worried about losing him.

So now, seeing him growing and so healthy looking, I am starting to relax, and am enjoying his growth/ progress, and snarky personality.

 

[shmoomunchkin]

He looks good nice thick tail but he don't look over weight.

Thank you, this makes me feel good...I was so worried about how fast he has been growing...My husband told me to just enjoy, and stop worrying. I am going to do this.

 

[xp29]

I agree with your hubby. As long as your lighting is on point and your half way there with diet he should be just fine . The only other thing i would caution is just keep the poop cleaned asap with a good cleaner like f10, chlorhexidine, or wipe out. (Wipe out is ammonia based so rinse and air to zero fumes if used). It will help stop parasites before they can start.
Otherwise just enjoy your beardie

 

[Axil]

I am still kind of reeling from a young beardie who died in my care (congenital kidney disease, that I couldn't do anything about). Though I know logically, that I did my best for him, I am so very hyper-vigalent about this one.

Sigh. I truly did not enjoy my guy's early baby months because I was so worried about losing him.

Sadly I can totally relate to this. Years ago we lost a baby dragon 2 days after bringing him home from a reptile expo. I'd done weeks of research and preparation and was shocked to have him pass so suddenly.

For weeks I'd be checking every night to make sure Beebz was breathing in his sleep. All that fear and anxiety definitely makes it hard to enjoy your pet.

As weeks and months passed it has gotten easier. I'm glad you seem to be experiencing the same easing of your fears and concerns.

I'm also glad you decided to post your concerns here. This community has done wonders to ease my concerns and increase my confidence going forward. I hope as I gain experience in knowledge in the hobby i will be able to pay it forward to new owners.

 

[shmoomunchkin]

I agree with your hubby. As long as your lighting is on point and your half way there with diet he should be just fine . The only other thing i would caution is just keep the poop cleaned asap with a good cleaner like f10, chlorhexidine, or wipe out. (Wipe out is ammonia based so rinse and air to zero fumes if used). It will help stop parasites before they can start.
Otherwise just enjoy your beardie

Sadly I can totally relate to this. Years ago we lost a baby dragon 2 days after bringing him home from a reptile expo. I'd done weeks of research and preparation and was shocked to have him pass so suddenly.

For weeks I'd be checking every night to make sure Beebz was breathing in his sleep. All that fear and anxiety definitely makes it hard to enjoy your pet.

As weeks and months passed it has gotten easier. I'm glad you seem to be experiencing the same easing of your fears and concerns.

I'm also glad you decided to post your concerns here. This community has done wonders to ease my concerns and increase my confidence going forward. I hope as I gain experience in knowledge in the hobby i will be able to pay it forward to new owners.

Wonderful post! I am glad you are feeling better as well. These little guys really grow in our .

 

[Glamamama]

Thank you. My family over-ruled me. The drug is metronidazole, and he is still eating like a piglet after two doses.
I am in the human health care field, and see all the time, that prescriptions are being written because patients want an easy fix (according to their doctor google searches) and hospitals and clinics rely and reward good reviews. Many of these treatments are unnecessary and probably contribute to antibiotic resistant organisms.
Sadly, again, I was over ruled, and I will watch him closely. I literally can't find anything about spirochetes in stool being dangerous (by itself).
If this were a human being, my knowledge base would be enough to not allow treatment.
With reptiles, I am basically a babe in the woods with regards to this.
IF his appetite tanks or there are any other negative reactions I will stop, and my kids and husband will just need to trust me.

So sorry for the wall of text...this has been weighing heavily on me all day

 

[Glamamama]

Quick question: what live bugs are you using? Just a thought the crickets tend to be high carriers of parasites. I have been using dubia and BSFL for years now. Herp vet agrees. I hope he gets through this quickly.

 

[shmoomunchkin]

Quick question: what live bugs are you using? Just a thought the crickets tend to be high carriers of parasites. I have been using dubia and BSFL for years now. Herp vet agrees. I hope he gets through this quickly.

Just dubias and BSFLs...I tried crickets the first few days after I got him, and he didn't like them, and I didn't like keeping them in the house, so I never tried again.

 

[BeardyMama77]

Thank you so very much! He got through treatment, and was not happy about it. They want me to bring another stool sample in, and I am kind of reluctant to do so.

He is 6.5 months, 450 grams and 19 inches long. Growing like a champ, and he seems happy.

Hey there, I’ve gone over your post and the responses and I would like to share my current experience with my dragon that also has a high count (3+) of spirochetes. His stool sample was checked towards the end of February this year and he tested with a 3+ count, which is a bit high. Unfortunately my vet hadn’t gotten his results in time before leaving for a month to Antarctica. So when she got back, he was still stable at that time. So, we started with one dose of oral ivermectin, which he ended up having a bad reaction to. One morning his stool had a little burgundyish blood and a watered down red wine colored fluid. Then a few days later had another stool with a bit more blood again. We discontinued the ivermectin and started him on Ceftazidime injection, subcutaneous fluid injection (for dehydration), oral Amoxicillin and Metronidazole. I would strongly recommend a retest of the stool to make sure they’re completely gone. How’s your guy doing? My guy doesn’t have an appetite at all and I’m feeding him a veggie/omnivore slurry.

 

[shmoomunchkin]

Hey there, I’ve gone over your post and the responses and I would like to share my current experience with my dragon that also has a high count (3+) of spirochetes. His stool sample was checked towards the end of February this year and he tested with a 3+ count, which is a bit high. Unfortunately my vet hadn’t gotten his results in time before leaving for a month to Antarctica. So when she got back, he was still stable at that time. So, we started with one dose of oral ivermectin, which he ended up having a bad reaction to. One morning his stool had a little burgundyish blood and a watered down red wine colored fluid. Then a few days later had another stool with a bit more blood again. We discontinued the ivermectin and started him on Ceftazidime injection, subcutaneous fluid injection (for dehydration), oral Amoxicillin and Metronidazole. I would strongly recommend a retest of the stool to make sure they’re completely gone. How’s your guy doing? My guy doesn’t have an appetite at all and I’m feeding him a veggie/omnivore slurry.

He has been doing good until recently, not wanting his greens.

So glad you posted, because you are the first person who has posted about positive spirochetes.


When we initially got the diagnosis, he had no symptoms.

At this point, I am holding off on feating him to many bugs...He is w0 inches and 560 grams, and is not quite 8 months old yet.

He has always had good urates and stool.

After his treatment, he was the same as before. No issues.

Did the vet EVER explain spirochetes? There is next to ZERO literature about this infection?

So glad you posted, and hope to learn something about this.

I hope your guy bounces back really soon!

 

[shmoomunchkin]

Hey there, I’ve gone over your post and the responses and I would like to share my current experience with my dragon that also has a high count (3+) of spirochetes. His stool sample was checked towards the end of February this year and he tested with a 3+ count, which is a bit high. Unfortunately my vet hadn’t gotten his results in time before leaving for a month to Antarctica. So when she got back, he was still stable at that time. So, we started with one dose of oral ivermectin, which he ended up having a bad reaction to. One morning his stool had a little burgundyish blood and a watered down red wine colored fluid. Then a few days later had another stool with a bit more blood again. We discontinued the ivermectin and started him on Ceftazidime injection, subcutaneous fluid injection (for dehydration), oral Amoxicillin and Metronidazole. I would strongly recommend a retest of the stool to make sure they’re completely gone. How’s your guy doing? My guy doesn’t have an appetite at all and I’m feeding him a veggie/omnivore slurry.

How old is your guy?
Mine had no symptoms, and none since the diagnosis. His treatment had no positive or negative effect on him.

I never brought a stool sample back after the diagnosis because he had no symptoms.

After your post, I may.

 

[shmoomunchkin]

He has been doing good until recently, not wanting his greens.

So glad you posted, because you are the first person who has posted about positive spirochetes.


When we initially got the diagnosis, he had no symptoms.

At this point, I am holding off on feating him to many bugs...He is w0 inches and 560 grams, and is not quite 8 months old yet.

He has always had good urates and stool.

After his treatment, he was the same as before. No issues.

Did the vet EVER explain spirochetes? There is next to ZERO literature about this infection?

So glad you posted, and hope to learn something about this.

I hope your guy bounces back really soon!

*560 grams and 20 inches