Signs of MBD?? Please help

[Taralachelle]

A few days ago I thought my 3 month old beardie sprained his front right leg or broke it, so I took his branch out and put a smaller one in.i noticed that a bump began to form on that same leg right by the joint. However, He seemed to be doing better and was becoming more alert until today. His colors were dark and he had only ate two worms and ignored the rest, didn't want to move or drink water. I took him out to see if he could walk and he was dragging his back right leg. Are these signs of MBD?

Lighting: I have a zoomed deep done fixture that has a powersun UV 100w bulb. It is about 10 inches from his basking area (this was the distant before I removed his big branch and now with the smaller one)

I feed him a diet of black solider fly larvae and a few wax worms, coated in repticalcium with D3 that is phosphorus free and I offer him greens (green beans, lettuce, apples) a few times a week

His tank is a 20gal and I use paper towels as the substrate

Any advice will help)): I'm really worried and most likely going to purchase a new light because I'm concerned he's not getting enough UVB. I've been arguing with my dad that his lamp isn't enough since the day I got him :/

 

[AHBD]

Hi Tara....what else is in the tank ? Can you post a pic ? Can you get a video of him walking ? Is it still warm where you live ? If it IS calcium related ,getting him in the sun will help as much as any bulb you can buy. You can put him out in a plastic tote if it's sunny and as low as 65 -75....the tote absorbs the heat and bumps the temp. up to a comfortable level. Once it's above 75 it can actually get too warm, so in that case you can lean something against the tote to block some of the sun.

Whatever veggies + fruit you give him, shred the hard ones very small and don't give too much apple. Even an eraser sized piece can be hard to chew+ digest for a baby beardie.

 

[Taralachelle]

Hi Tara....what else is in the tank ? Can you post a pic ? Can you get a video of him walking ? Is it still warm where you live ? If it IS calcium related ,getting him in the sun will help as much as any bulb you can buy. You can put him out in a plastic tote if it's sunny and as low as 65 -75....the tote absorbs the heat and bumps the temp. up to a comfortable level. Once it's above 75 it can actually get too warm, so in that case you can lean something against the tote to block some of the sun.

Whatever veggies + fruit you give him, shred the hard ones very small and don't give too much apple. Even an eraser sized piece can be hard to chew+ digest for a baby beardie.

I try to make sure all his food is a good size for him since he's so little (about 7") apples I don't feed too often, but when I do it is usually organic apple sauce so there aren't any big chunks in it and he loves the stuff
I live in LA but surprisingly it has been pretty cold in my area. I haven't seen it above 55 degrees in a few days and it's stormy so taking him outside isn't very possible at the moment :/ I talked to a lady who runs this family owned pet store in my area and she said his light should be fine, but to look into gout? She also gave me a multivitamin powder to put on his food hoping that will help

Here is a picture of his habitat, ignore the towel on top I'm trying to contain some of the heat since my house is a bit cold and his temps dropped earlier

And here's the only video I'm able to get of him walking seeing as he doesn't want to move very much ):
View My Video

As of right now he is still dragging his back leg, but seems to be putting more pressure on his front leg. His tail is also shedding so that doesn't help with his grumpiness lol

 

[Varalidaine]

I am so sorry this is happening. I, personally, would take him to a vet. Whether it's MBD or a broken bone, the x ray could tell right away. Gout definitely seems like a possibility as it causes swelling in the joints, and you said his front leg was swollen at the joint. It also causes stiffness and pain in the joints, so maybe that's why he isn't using that back leg. Tracie (Drache613) has experience with gout and would be much more helpful than me. Again, I suggest a vet but mention gout to them. A blood test will reveal uric acid levels, which will indicate gout.

Extra hydration will be needed as well, even if you have to drip it on his nose with a dropper every day.

Gout seems like the more likely culprit here, based on swelling and sudden disuse of limbs.

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

Poor thing, he is so tiny indeed!
It could be gout, but he is so young.
At 10 inches, the 100 watt bulb should be sufficient in strength. What are his basking temperatures?
He is too small for a blood test, but, they could do an x-ray to see if there is any tophi build up on or around the joints for determining gout.
You could be proactive & begin giving Black Cherry concentrate daily, to help in case it could be gout.
Which multivitamin powder are you giving, what brand is it & what is in it? Are you giving a separate calcium supplement also?
It could also just be general overall muscular weakness brought on by low calcium levels, too.

He sure is a cutie, I hope that he is going to be alright. I am glad you took out the higher basking area, so that he doesn't have to climb too much & hurt himself further.
Let us know how he is doing.

Tracie

 

[Taralachelle]

Hello,

Poor thing, he is so tiny indeed!
It could be gout, but he is so young.
At 10 inches, the 100 watt bulb should be sufficient in strength. What are his basking temperatures?
He is too small for a blood test, but, they could do an x-ray to see if there is any tophi build up on or around the joints for determining gout.
You could be proactive & begin giving Black Cherry concentrate daily, to help in case it could be gout.
Which multivitamin powder are you giving, what brand is it & what is in it? Are you giving a separate calcium supplement also?
It could also just be general overall muscular weakness brought on by low calcium levels, too.

He sure is a cutie, I hope that he is going to be alright. I am glad you took out the higher basking area, so that he doesn't have to climb too much & hurt himself further.
Let us know how he is doing.

Tracie

His basking temps I have gotten to be consistent at about 107, and he seems to be doing a little better. I don't think it's a calcium deficiency at this point because I consistent dust his worms with calcium and I feed his Phoenix worms which I've heard are high in Calcium? I could be wrong.
The only issue is that I have called around and can not find a vet that will treat bearded dragons :/
Ill try the black cherry extract to see if that will help at all until I can locate a vet.
As of today he was more alert and less irritable. I was able to take him out without him struggling and to bathe him, I usually drip water on his nose daily and he will drink. He however didn't want to eat today, but like I said he is also shedding so that could be why. He has usually been eating and I weighed him today, he hasn't lost any weight

I believe the multivitamin powder is from zoomed, I'll double check tomorrow. And yes I have been giving him calcium powder daily, he takes water well, and besides today has been eating decently and pooping regularly

 

[Taralachelle]

Also if this helps, here's a picture of the swelling on his fromt right leg
And I really appreciate your guys help and support! He is my first beardie and I've only had him about a little over a month, but I'm already so emotionally invested. The thought of him being hurt or sick is just awful and I want to do everything I can for my little baby. It's just frustrating because I've been trying so hard to do everything right to avoid a situation like this...

 

[Taralachelle]

Hi guys, Nelson is still having some issues. He's walking better but continues to drag his back leg and has that bump on his front right leg

Any ideas on what might be up or am I just being paranoid?

 

[Varalidaine]

I definitely don't think you're paranoid if he's still dragging his leg. Is a vet visit possible for you? He could have broken something. I've seen that a few times where they break an arm or leg and owners have no idea how. I quick x-ray would show MBD or a break.

 

[Taralachelle]

I definitely don't think you're paranoid if he's still dragging his leg. Is a vet visit possible for you? He could have broken something. I've seen that a few times where they break an arm or leg and owners have no idea how. I quick x-ray would show MBD or a break.

I've tried to find a vet and haven't been able to :/ no one around here will do anything for bearded dragons besides trim their nails.
Im just really not sure what to do at this point. He's moving around right now and seems more alert lately, but he's still favoring his back leg and the front one is still swollen with a bump :/ poor little guy

 

[CooperDragon]

Have you checked out this list to see if there is anyone near you who can help? http://www.anapsid.org/vets/#vetlist

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

I am sorry he is still favoring that leg, poor guy!
How many phoenix worms is he getting daily? You actually could be giving too much calcium, possibly which can cause softening of the bones. It throws off the balance of calcium to phosphorus levels & the bones overcompensate. Is the multivitamin powder you are using Repcal Herptivite? If so, that does have calcium with D3 in it, mixed with vitamins. So, I feel that many times the combination of using that too frequently along with regular calcium can sometimes be too much.
Or it could also be the beginnings of gout, but not sure. Can you see any other irregular swellings around the hands, feet, wrists or ankles?
Maybe try giving extra oral fluids right now also, if he will take them.
Let us know how he is doing.

Tracie

 

[Taralachelle]

Hello,

I am sorry he is still favoring that leg, poor guy!
How many phoenix worms is he getting daily? You actually could be giving too much calcium, possibly which can cause softening of the bones. It throws off the balance of calcium to phosphorus levels & the bones overcompensate. Is the multivitamin powder you are using Repcal Herptivite? If so, that does have calcium with D3 in it, mixed with vitamins. So, I feel that many times the combination of using that too frequently along with regular calcium can sometimes be too much.
Or it could also be the beginnings of gout, but not sure. Can you see any other irregular swellings around the hands, feet, wrists or ankles?
Maybe try giving extra oral fluids right now also, if he will take them.
Let us know how he is doing.

Tracie

I was wondering if he might be getting too much calcium.
That is the powder im using, and he usually eats about 15-20 Phoenix worms a day and one or two wax worms every other day as a treat (I also offer greens which he will eat some times). However I don't give him the calcium powder and the vitamin powder in the same day, I've been doing either or. Could I be giving him the calcium powder too often maybe?
The only other swelling I've noticed is his front right leg and his back right leg which is only swollen on the upper part. Besides those areas, I haven't seen any swelling of his toes or any other body parts.
I usually give him fluids orally a few times a day and he's pretty good about taking it.
As of right now Hes only eating one or two Phoenix worms a day, so I have also been giving him baby food which he surprisingly doesn't refuse

Maybe he was just getting too much calcium like you said, so I'll start cutting back on that

 

[Toddzilla1108]

I'm gonna guess he's getting too much calcium.

I myself am still not 100% sure what the 'right amount' is.

But for my 7" or so beardie, I've been giving phoenix worms as well.

I don't dust with calcium (she has been eating 20 or so a day), and I dust with reptivite 2 times per week. If I give her crickets that I also keep on hand then I'll do a light calcium dust on those only. B

Again, not sure if that's the right way to look at it, but that's how I've been doing it.