Sickness or brumation?

[Kpb1990]

Hi, I adopted a 5 year old beardie last week and I am very new into having a bearded dragon but it is bothering me that he doesn’t move much, doesn’t want to eat, doesn’t want to drink water or anything. He is sleeping most of the time, when we come in the room he opens his eyes and looks at us for a few minutes then he goes back to sleep. The first days I had him I could tell he was malnourished, his pelvic bones were protruding, his legs were very skinny, his color was a dull brown greyish yellow color haha if that’s a color. So I read online that he could have MBD, (he came with a heating lamp but no idea if they had him with a uvb lamp or not)so I got him a uvb lamp right away to prevent mbd from getting worse. Anyways since he was not eating I started giving him some repta-boost and some calcium with vitamin D3 and 1ml of water per day. His tail, color and legs look way better now but his head pads are still a little bit sunken. He takes the food but doesn’t love it, he moves a little when I am feeding him but also his head trembles a little bit when he tries to look up. He has pooped everyday except for the first day I got him, his poop has been different all those times. The first time I noticed his poop it was all white solid, the second time he pooped the white and green but the white had a very faint tinge of orange or yellow, the other poops have been kind of watery but there was green and white no more yellow or orange. I am not familiar with the smell of healthy poops are they supposed to smell a little or not have any smell at all?

My big question is how long does it take for them to recover from dehydration or mbd? And how to know the difference between MBD and brumation? Can he be affected by both at the same time?
I would love to take him to a vet but since we just passed the holiday season, I really can’t afford it right now.

 

[KarrieRee]

Hi, I adopted a 5 year old beardie last week and I am very new into having a bearded dragon but it is bothering me that he doesn’t move much, doesn’t want to eat, doesn’t want to drink water or anything. He is sleeping most of the time, when we come in the room he opens his eyes and looks at us for a few minutes then he goes back to sleep. The first days I had him I could tell he was malnourished, his pelvic bones were protruding, his legs were very skinny, his color was a dull brown greyish yellow color haha if that’s a color. So I read online that he could have MBD, (he came with a heating lamp but no idea if they had him with a uvb lamp or not)so I got him a uvb lamp right away to prevent mbd from getting worse. Anyways since he was not eating I started giving him some repta-boost and some calcium with vitamin D3 and 1ml of water per day. His tail, color and legs look way better now but his head pads are still a little bit sunken. He takes the food but doesn’t love it, he moves a little when I am feeding him but also his head trembles a little bit when he tries to look up. He has pooped everyday except for the first day I got him, his poop has been different all those times. The first time I noticed his poop it was all white solid, the second time he pooped the white and green but the white had a very faint tinge of orange or yellow, the other poops have been kind of watery but there was green and white no more yellow or orange. I am not familiar with the smell of healthy poops are they supposed to smell a little or not have any smell at all?

My big question is how long does it take for them to recover from dehydration or mbd? And how to know the difference between MBD and brumation? Can he be affected by both at the same time?
I would love to take him to a vet but since we just passed the holiday season, I really can’t afford it right now.

He doesn't look to bad- what kind of uvb did you get ? Please no coils they are inadequate - let's get your surface basking temps and uvb up to par then we will talk diet

 

[Kpb1990]

I got him an arcadia prot5 shade dweller. For heat I have a ceramic one. Basking temperature currently at 90 F.

 

[KarrieRee]

I got him an arcadia prot5 shade dweller. For heat I have a ceramic one. Basking temperature currently at 90 F.

Arcadia is a great UVB but you want the reptile one 12% bulb 24 watt --- placement and distance is going to be determined by your screen on the tank ---- heat ceramic one? are you talking about a heat emitter? Please if so you need a solid clear bright white basking bulb like a Flukers basking Exo Terra Intense or a Arcadia Halogen--- to determine wattage you want a digital probe thermometer to get temps 95-100--- heat emitters are good for night time temps and when dragons are sick they are not good for basking --- they do not emit UVA you want the white bright basking bulb for that--- he will not eat w/ out proper surface basking temps or correct UVB ----

 

[Drache613]

Hello,

I agree, his condition isn't too bad. His eyes are bright & they appear alert too which is a great sign.
I think he is most likely suffering from possible metabolic bone disease & malnutrition but he should
be able to pull out of it with good UVB lighting & supplementation.
Definitely get the Arcadia D3 12% or 14% T5 UVB for reptile use.
Since he isn't moving much, he is probably a little weak. Be sure to keep his basking areas low right
now to ensure he doesn't have to climb much to bask & get UVB.

Tracie

 

[Kpb1990]

So I went into petsmart and exchanged the lamp for the arcadia 12% 24w. Now he has the right uvb, I am getting his basking area improved today. So what would be different from brumation? Do all adult BD go into brumation every year or not necessarily?

 

[KarrieRee]

So I went into petsmart and exchanged the lamp for the arcadia 12% 24w. Now he has the right uvb, I am getting his basking area improved today. So what would be different from brumation? Do all adult BD go into brumation every year or not necessarily?

No all dragons are different --- what is the screen on your tank ? A fine mesh like a screen door or a wide hole type--- this makes a difference -- we need to get the temps and UVB on par to determine brumation - incorrect lighting and temps can simulate brumation -- what is his weight? He needs to be of good weight before going into brumation -- and Tracie said hes probably malnourished so we need to start getting some food into him but slowly - you dont want to overwhelm him w/ food -- also keeping him hydrated as well -- is he eating anything at all ?

 

[xp29]

You might consider ordering some Oxbow Critical Care for him. You can get it on Amazon. It comes in herbivore, carnivore and omnivore varieties. I would do the omnivore for now. It is a fantastic product and quite literally saved one of my dragons It's full of vitamins and minerals and it helps hydrate them.

 

[Kpb1990]

No all dragons are different --- what is the screen on your tank ? A fine mesh like a screen door or a wide hole type--- this makes a difference -- we need to get the temps and UVB on par to determine brumation - incorrect lighting and temps can simulate brumation -- what is his weight? He needs to be of good weight before going into brumation -- and Tracie said hes probably malnourished so we need to start getting some food into him but slowly - you dont want to overwhelm him w/ food -- also keeping him hydrated as well -- is he eating anything at all ?

I installed it under the screen for more exposure, he is still not interested in eating, I sprayed the salad with water and have been feeding him with syringe daily reptaboost, according to his weight which is 334g he is supposed to eat between 2.9cc and 3.3cc. I have been feeding him 2.9cc. When I got him two days later I put some some superworms and dubia roaches in front of him and he ate one roach and like 4 superworms, but that is the only time I have seen him eating on his own without me feeding him. That was like 5 days ago.
For hydration I have been giving him baths with very little warm water, and 1ml of water with a syringe.
But it does worry me that he is not eating or drinking on his own.

Also just now he pooped and this is by far the most watery of all, it doesn’t smell strong but it also doesn’t smell like flowers… and then after putting him in his terrarium he went to the corner to sleep

 

[KarrieRee]

I installed it under the screen for more exposure, he is still not interested in eating, I sprayed the salad with water and have been feeding him with syringe daily reptaboost, according to his weight which is 334g he is supposed to eat between 2.9cc and 3.3cc. I have been feeding him 2.9cc. When I got him two days later I put some some superworms and dubia roaches in front of him and he ate one roach and like 4 superworms, but that is the only time I have seen him eating on his own without me feeding him. That was like 5 days ago.
For hydration I have been giving him baths with very little warm water, and 1ml of water with a syringe.
But it does worry me that he is not eating or drinking on his own.

Also just now he pooped and this is by far the most watery of all, it doesn’t smell strong but it also doesn’t smell like flowers… and then after putting him in his terrarium he went to the corner to sleep

Make sure a piece of basking decor is directly under the UVB around 13 inches or so -- super worms are treat worms so I would limit those and feed your dubias-- he can have the super worms but I would feed them every 2-3 days-- he should have protein at least 2-3 times per week -- he is hydrated how often are you giving water?

 

[Kpb1990]

Make sure a piece of basking decor is directly under the UVB around 13 inches or so -- super worms are treat worms so I would limit those and feed your dubias-- he can have the super worms but I would feed them every 2-3 days-- he should have protein at least 2-3 times per week -- he is hydrated how often are you giving water?

I give him 1cc per day and 2.9 cc of the repta boost. He hasn’t been interested in the dubias or the superworms at all anymore. Or any greens, and I have rotated his veggies to see what he would like. Is the picture of the poop sign of sickness?

 

[KarrieRee]

I give him 1cc per day and 2.9 cc of the repta boost. He hasn’t been interested in the dubias or the superworms at all anymore. Or any greens, and I have rotated his veggies to see what he would like. Is the picture of the poop sign of sickness?

To me it looks off but that could be the Reptaboost--- I am going to have AHBD take a look at it -- I think I would get him over on some Oxbow Critical Care as suggested by Xp29-- its thick so your gonna need to water it down and maybe snip the end of the syringe off --
@AHBD

 

[AHBD]

No telling what his previous care was like and exactly why he's having trouble. That poo looks off but it's not terrible, it might take a while before it looks better. Reptaboost is O.K for short term use but hopefully he'll start eating some greens soon. The insect meal he had might be all he can handle at this time until he starts feeling better. Oxbow Critical Care is good stuff but should only be used sparingly if possible [ like the Reptaboost ] hoping that he'll eat more insects + greens. It might be good to have a fecal test done in a couple weeks to be sure that he doesn't have a parasite problem.

 

[Kpb1990]

No telling what his previous care was like and exactly why he's having trouble. That poo looks off but it's not terrible, it might take a while before it looks better. Reptaboost is O.K for short term use but hopefully he'll start eating some greens soon. The insect meal he had might be all he can handle at this time until he starts feeling better. Oxbow Critical Care is good stuff but should only be used sparingly if possible [ like the Reptaboost ] hoping that he'll eat more insects + greens. It might be good to have a fecal test done in a couple weeks to be sure that he doesn't have a parasite problem.

I think he had a good owner at one point who took care of him but then he was left with a relative who didn’t know how to take care of him so I adopted him from her. She told me she was just feeding him lettuce, romaine lettuce. I am not certain she had a uvb lamp on him but as far I can tell he didn’t have one on. He was very malnourished when I got him and didn’t move at all. I can see he is recovering somehow but it’s just very sad to see him so weak. And that’s why I was wondering if he was sick or if he was starting brumation.

 

[KarrieRee]

I think he had a good owner at one point who took care of him but then he was left with a relative who didn’t know how to take care of him so I adopted him from her. She told me she was just feeding him lettuce, romaine lettuce. I am not certain she had a uvb lamp on him but as far I can tell he didn’t have one on. He was very malnourished when I got him and didn’t move at all. I can see he is recovering somehow but it’s just very sad to see him so weak. And that’s why I was wondering if he was sick or if he was starting brumation.

If you have a fecal done NO enemas!!! Take the fecal in and have them test it-
www.arav.org to find a reptile vet --- if your in a small area type in the biggest cities zip code closest to you