Sick Dragon - Coccidia and Pinworms

[saxondragon]

I took my new dragon to the vet on 2/23 and had exam and fecal test. I finally was able to get the results of the test and found out my little guy had a parasite, didn't realize it might have been two. (Is pinworm a parasite?)

Anyway, so I have meds for him. I've only had Saxon since 2/16.

Now I bought him from what I think is a reputable petshop in town. But if my dragon has two bugs/parasites and he was housed with other breadies (adults) should I consider this shop not reputable anymore?

Should I call them and let them know my dragon is sick and they need to check out their dragons?

I read from another post that coccidia is common in very low numbers and breaks out in stress and etc. So I know how that probably took place over the weekend upleading to the 2/16 and the week after I had him (new environment after 2/16 and 2/13 being the live poser for photography club where there was lots of people handling and etc.) Specifically my dragon has coccidia genus Isospora.

But how does a dragon get pinworm? Are they from feeders or vegs? Am I doing something wrong?

The med I have for Saxon is Albon Suspension 1oz. I am to give him 0.4 cc daily in the mouth. It comes with a small syringe so that's doable. I can usually get him to lick water from a bigger syringe.

Any insight or help is appreciated.

Info provided as best as I could remember. If more info is needed, I'll gladly provide.

How old is your dragon? year and half to two years old (per vet)
How long have you had your dragon? 2/16/09
How long is your dragon? 17" long
What is the sex of your dragon? male
What size enclosure do you have your dragon in? 40 gallon tank
What type substrate do you have on the bottom of your tank? paper towels
Do you use UVB lights? Solarglo 125W (heat and UVB light in one)
If so, Is it a coil, compact, fluorescent tube, or Mercury Vapor bulb?
What is the brand name and number of your bulb? Wattage (if MVB)?
How old is your UVB bulb? 3 weeks
How close can your dragon get to the UVB? 12"
Do you use a separate basking bulb? What kind and what is the wattage? no
What are the basking temps? 100
What is the cool side temp? 75
Do you take the temps with a stick on thermometer, a digital thermometer with a wire and a probe end or a temp gun? digital therm with wire probe
Where exactly are you taking your basking temps? within an inch of his basking rock
Do you use a heat rock or heat pad? no
What do you feed your dragon? collard greens, butternut squash are mostly his daily staples - varied are mustard greens, cilantro this morning, and carrots this morning - every 2-4 days mealworms
How often do you feed and what time do you feed (morning, afternoon, night)? daily salad in tank all day, mealworms at night (I make sure the light is on for an extra hour or two for basking to help digest)
Do you gutload (feed) your crickets, worms, etc? no
Do you use vitamin or calcium supplements? What brand(s)? How many days a week do you use each of them? T-Rex veggie dust and T-Rex insect dust
Is your dragon having regular bowel movements (poops)? no, first was 2/23 (luckily just before vet visit!!) and I'm told by my mother today
Do you bath your dragon? How often? every 3-4 days
Do you mist your dragon or offer water other than in the bath? yes, every other day when not bath day
Does your dragon share an enclosure with another dragon? no
Have you gotten a vet check and fecal done? yes - coccidia (genus Isospora) and pinworms

Thank you!

 

[GlueStick]

But how does a dragon get pinworm? Are they from feeders or vegs? Am I doing something wrong?

I thought that pinworms were a species specific parasite? Meaning... only people can contract them.

 

[saxondragon]

As far as I know pinworms are quite common in low doses in dragons. From what little reading I have been able to do since last night.

 

[GlueStick]

How old is your dragon? year and half to two years old (per vet)
How long have you had your dragon? 2/16/09
How long is your dragon? 17" long
What is the sex of your dragon? male
What size enclosure do you have your dragon in? 40 gallon tank
What type substrate do you have on the bottom of your tank? paper towels
Do you use UVB lights? Solarglo 125W (heat and UVB light in one) I have never heard of this UV lighting. The most highly recomended of bulbs to avoid any known cases of calcium deficiency, mbd, or eye problems, are the ReptiSUN 5.0 or 10.0, ReptoGLO 8.0, or the megaray you must purchase online
If so, Is it a coil, compact, fluorescent tube, or Mercury Vapor bulb? This is also very important. Stay away from coiled UVBs.
What is the brand name and number of your bulb? Wattage (if MVB)?
How old is your UVB bulb? 3 weeks
How close can your dragon get to the UVB? 12"
Do you use a separate basking bulb? What kind and what is the wattage? If he is getting the correct heat and lighting then I am not too concerned about this, although I must say to stay away from any colored bulbs (like red or blue) Bearded dragons thrive best in white light. UVBs do not emit heat, only UV
What are the basking temps? 100This is good. Basking spots for beardies of his age should be kept between 100-105F
What is the cool side temp? 75 This is also fine, though a little low, but nothing to worry about. Cool side 80-85F
Do you take the temps with a stick on thermometer, a digital thermometer with a wire and a probe end or a temp gun? digital therm with wire probe
Where exactly are you taking your basking temps? within an inch of his basking rock
Do you use a heat rock or heat pad? no
What do you feed your dragon? collard greens, butternut squash are mostly his daily staples - varied are mustard greens, cilantro this morning, and carrots this morning - every 2-4 days mealworms
How often do you feed and what time do you feed (morning, afternoon, night)? daily salad in tank all day, mealworms at night (I make sure the light is on for an extra hour or two for basking to help digest)
Do you gutload (feed) your crickets, worms, etc? no
Do you use vitamin or calcium supplements? What brand(s)? How many days a week do you use each of them? T-Rex veggie dust and T-Rex insect dust We sell this at work, although I always recommend calcium supplementation and multivitamin supplementation made by Rep Cal, mulivitamins and calcium (phosphorous free). Not entirely sure about Trex products. HOw often to you dust (crickets/salads included)?
Is your dragon having regular bowel movements (poops)? no, first was 2/23 (luckily just before vet visit!!) and I'm told by my mother today
Do you bath your dragon? How often? every 3-4 days
Do you mist your dragon or offer water other than in the bath? yes, every other day when not bath day
Does your dragon share an enclosure with another dragon? no
Have you gotten a vet check and fecal done? yes - coccidia (genus Isospora) and pinworms

Thank you!

From what I understand, coccidia comes from fecal-contaminated ground, usually laid down by the fecal samples of other infected reptiles that may share the cage, or a filthy habitats. Eggs from the contaminated ground enter the mouth and infect its host.
The life cycle of the Coccidian parasite works as follows:

1. The dragon ingests the oocysts (Coccidia eggs).
2. The oocysts infect the cells lining the intestinal wall.
3. The oocysts become the Coccida parasite that then begin to reproduce asexually (remember from biology class, that means that each individual parasite can reproduce all by itself).
4. More oocysts are produced
5. The new oocyst are expelled in the feces
6. Back to step 1

The parasites that already live within your dragon are already present. If an external stimulus, usually present in captive lizards, such as improper lighting, stress, malnutrition and so on, occurs then the parasite count within the body increases, thus causing problems. Usual signs and symptoms of parasite problems include runny stool and/or extremely smelly stool.

 

[saxondragon]

Thanks for the info!

He's only gone poo twice in the time I had him. At first I thought it was settling in and etc. But he poo'd right before vet visit so I bagged it and took it in. He went yesterday also. Messy and smelly. Unfortunately it was there for a few hours, I work and was unable to clean it out. My mother is unable to due to being disabled.

The Solarglo is Exo-Terra. I will eventually get the separate UVB and heat bulbs, but not until I finish moving and decide what viv and viv location (to be determined still) at the new house.

As for his food, I dust his salad daily and his mealworms every time. I don't do crickets. Vet said I would use mealies. I asked between silkworms and mealies. But I'm going to go between different worms. He needs to gain some weight anyways, so I'm gonna try some fatty ones soon.

Am I cleaning out the viv correctly...

Put Saxon in a box (don't have another tank).
Soak rocks in bleach/water mix.
Spray bleach/water mix in tank and let is sit for about 15 minutes. Wipe it out.
Spray water to rinse it out.
Let it sit to air out for a bit. (I put lamp on it to make sure no smell residue left when airing out).
Put papertowels down, put dried out rocks back into cage. I have extra branches, as I threw the others one.
Give Saxon a bath.
Put Saxon back in viv once nice and dry.

Is that alright?

Tonight I planned on...

Using same box I put him in as previous night - is this cross contamination?
Socking branch and rocks in bleach/water mix in tub. (Branch will not fit in oven.)
Spray bleach/water mix in viv and soak.
Spray water in viv to rinse out.
Air out tank (with heat lamp on top to make sure no bleach residue smell left).
Dry out rocks and branch.
Put fresh papertowels down and reconstruct branch/rocks in viv.
Bath for Saxon.
Put Saxon back in viv.

Is this procedure correct in disinfecting his viv? I don't have another viv available to move him to. And money is completely on hold for bigger expenses unless it's house (for humans) related.

 

[MitchMitch]

wow... so sorry to hear your Beardie is ill... My spike is suffering the same coccidia problem. I am approaching day 20 of meds and his poop is getting worse. UGH!!!! I feel your pain.

 

[GlueStick]

Your disenfecting methods are perfect =D And keep at it to avoid reinfection during treatment. Very vigorous, but worth it in the end. I too do the same thing once a month... of course you have to when beardies are so darn messy! :shock:

As for the lighting, I would definetely change that UVB and purchase some lightbulbs (either basking bulbs from a pet store or halogen or household bulbs do well) for heat. I will post pictures of my setup when I get home so that you have a visual example of what a typical set up looks like.

I have two white basking bulbs (60 watt (for cool side) and 100 watt (for basking) <----100 watt with dimmer switch for heat control) Though, keep in mind my wattage is so high because I have a 75 gallon tank. You yourself will have to figure out what wattage sizes benefit you because heating also depends on the wattage, size of tank, and overall temp of your house.
In combination to the 100 watt basking bulb, I have in conjunction the UV flourescent ReptiSUN 5.0 about 10 inches from his basking spot. Always place the UV lighting with the basking area because beardies can only absorb vitamin D3 and UV through heat and make sure you follow distance of bulb from the actual animal protocal.

Here are some example pictures of proper lighting:
My 75 gallon tank
You'll notice my basking area is on the right where the log is with reptiSUN 5.0 flourescent strip light

aerial view

 

[saxondragon]

Thank you!

It's most definitely worth the effort in cleaning though. I love me dragon already. It's the perfect pet. I hate extra work but I don't mind this work because... he's different than a dog/cat/fish/bird. Something about him is completely different and I love his personality.

I'm going to Home Depot tonight, if I can anything that would be a good viv, I'll get it. I know it's best to have back ups. In the future though, I know I want to build or have some one build him a condo suite. His condo will include the best ligting and heat bulbs then. So for now, I'll have to do with the two in one source. His temps are working out at least and I know the bulb does give UVB.

But during my cleaning of his viv, is it okay to use the same box that I put him in? Is anything he touch infected or just when he poos in the area?

I'm hoping to take him to the new house and let him wander in certain areas of the house while I'm unpacking and doing things. I'd put down newspaper and bring some extra branches to let him play. I probably will let him outside too in the mid afternoon to let him bask in real sunlight if it's warm enough. Vet recommended it.

If any of this sounds wrong, please let me know!

Thanks.

 

[GlueStick]

Thank you!

It's most definitely worth the effort in cleaning though. I love me dragon already. It's the perfect pet. I hate extra work but I don't mind this work because... he's different than a dog/cat/fish/bird. Something about him is completely different and I love his personality.

I'm going to Home Depot tonight, if I can anything that would be a good viv, I'll get it. I know it's best to have back ups. In the future though, I know I want to build or have some one build him a condo suite. His condo will include the best ligting and heat bulbs then. So for now, I'll have to do with the two in one source. His temps are working out at least and I know the bulb does give UVB.

But during my cleaning of his viv, is it okay to use the same box that I put him in? Is anything he touch infected or just when he poos in the area?

Thank you!

Anyone here could agree that beardies truly are the best pet in terms of reptiles and fairly easy to take care of, despite their mess. Aussie is like a child to me, although slightly younger than your Saxon (approx 15 months of age. He was born on my birthday!)

For further advice, stay away from coil bulbs that emit UV, or any red and/or blue bulbs. They have been known to cause eye problems for beardies because of their innapropriate UV output.

As for the box thing... as long as he is not pooping in the box or has any 'poopy remains' on himself, I wouldn't worry about reinfection. Reptiles usually only contract coccidia from fecal contaminated areas and you say you give him baths anyhow so, he's safe

And no proplem ^^ Here's a few pics of my beardy. I would love to see your Saxon as well and I hope that he gets better!

This is the only recent one that I have of him, haha. He loves the window.

 

[saxondragon]

Whew. Glad to know I'm not wasting my efforts in cleaning his cage.

I just got done cleaning his tank, so am airing it out and letting the heat lamp work on it to make sure there's no bleach residue. I have his branch and rocks soaking in my tub with bleach. I'll probably do that every few days, instead of every day. But I check and make sure there's no fecal in the cage. He doesn't go at all. Only two times since 2/16. Any ideas on how to make him go? I rather clean up the little guy than have him hurting (I imagine it's painful after no pooing for days!)

And yea, know about staying away from coils and such for lights. Have intention on that.

Right now I have Saxon in a loose, loose beardie burrito asleep. It would be mean to take a photo right now with him shedding and sick. So I'll post pictures I took the night I met him - at a macro photography shoot.

I LOVE that photo of Aussie. I hope to let Saxon hang out near windows. But I'll have to settle for just probably taking him outside to let him roam. I want to make an area for him to bask and relax in. Protected of course with chicken wire on top so no birds think he is snack food.

 

[GlueStick]

But I check and make sure there's no fecal in the cage. He doesn't go at all. Only two times since 2/16. Any ideas on how to make him go? I rather clean up the little guy than have him hurting (I imagine it's painful after no pooing for days!)

[
As for his food, I dust his salad daily and his mealworms every time. I don't do crickets. Vet said I would use mealies. I asked between silkworms and mealies. But I'm going to go between different worms. He needs to gain some weight anyways, so I'm gonna try some fatty ones soon.

It may just be what and when you are feeding him. If you are that worried about his poop, then describe to me what you are feeding him exactly and when you are feeding him exactly. Though, it could be the amount of mealies you are feeding him. I find that when I feed too many mealies to aussie, it takes a bit longer for him to poop only because of the hard chitin shell on the worm.

ANd thats another thing. Food can make them impacted too with improper basking temps, especially with mealies. I feed aussie mealies but not too often because his nonpooping schedule always worries me. You said he has only pooped twice since 2/16? That sounds ALRIGHT, Aussie only poops about once a week so... yeah.

But, if you are in ever of a need to make them poop you could try the organic approach of romaine lettuce as a water source, or a bath would suffice (luke warm, up to the shoulders for 15 min. THough I understand that you do that already ^^) or, if you are REALLY worried about impaction or such, you could use a drop of vinegar oil stuff.

And that is a beautiful Saxon! So handsome =D

 

[saxondragon]

His daily staple is collard greens and butternut squash. I vary the other greens, right now it's cilantro and yellow squash. My other greens (after a shopping spree at the store) went bad. Taught me a lesson not to buy too many variety of greens at one time. hehe

Tomorrow I planned on shopping again and will probably pick up mustard green and turnip greens to get more variety in. I'm going to see if I can find some different squash also.

The past three days, not including today, I do notice him eating his daily salad. Today he didn't. He'll go a good few days in eating and then not eat for a day or two. But I always offer it to Saxon.

I haven't fed him mealies this week actually. I wanted to get fresh ones, but kept having to put it off for meeting arrangements (that always seem to fall through, ugh!) for moving. So tomorrow, I am going to get some new worms. I think they should have silkworms and I'm going to see if they have superworms. I know he likes waxworms too. Probably pick up a few those for fattening up.

I feel so bad for not spending and being able to do everything for him right now. Packing and moving is slow agonizing process. Am I being neglectful? If so, please tell me! I will making moving slower process if I need to. I was trying to have everything finished by end of next weekend so I can get started on his permanent viv!

I will definitely try the vinegar oil if he doesn't go within another week. I don't want to force something on him if I don't need to.

K time for his meds though. At least he seems to accept the taste of it. First bath and then meds and breadie burrito time.

Thanks.

Edit: Offered bath, no poo. But did clean him up, meds were on his "lips". I used a soft tooth brush to massage him also. Got some shedded skin off (out of his nose.) And started on the blue cross on his lower back/tail area that the pet store used to identify him. After letting him rest a bit, I offered him a mealworm. No go. Guess he didn't want to eat today. His salad was still untouched. I hope I'm being a good beardie parent. I don't want to hurt little Saxon!

 

[GlueStick]

Beardies of that age won't eat every day, nor poop as often as you would like them so, there's nothing to worry about. Just keep giving him the medicine he needs =D

And as for the attention thing... please, take care of yourself first. Saxon is patient enough ^^ If you don't take care of what you need to, how does he expect you to care for him as well? So straighten out the moving thing, in addition to small amounts of your attention, and when it is all over and done with, surround him with all the attention and love in the world =D

 

[msmaui]

No offense, GlueStick, but I believe you meant OLIVE OIL, not vinegar oil. Also, a little sugar-free canned pumpkin can be helpful. The pumpkin you don't use can be frozen in an icecube tray and used at a later date. Just put the frozen cubes in a baggie in the freezer.

 

[GlueStick]

No offense, GlueStick, but I believe you meant OLIVE OIL, not vinegar oil. Also, a little sugar-free canned pumpkin can be helpful. The pumpkin you don't use can be frozen in an icecube tray and used at a later date. Just put the frozen cubes in a baggie in the freezer.

Yes, that is what it is called! I was searching for the stuff in my cabinet... vinegar oil didn't sound quite right so, thank you for that ^^