Sick beardie, lots of problems :(

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Pigeoncracker

Member
Original Poster
She hasn't gotten any better :(

Still refuses food most of the time and she has absolutely no movement in any of her joints so she just kind of flops around and it's horrible. She is still pooping, not often but enough to make me not too worried about that.

I'm worried the bump right under her ear could be an ear infection too.

I'm feeding the Dubai roaches any vegetable I get my hands on. I'm going to ask our local pet shop we typically buy from what they grow them on later.

We're just waiting for a vet appointment now. It's stressful, I hope she'll recover fully. I hate to see her distress.
 

EllenD

Gray-bearded Member
I know this is as tough process, but you need to know that it's also a LONG process. If she has Gout, which I strongly suspect and am almost certain that she does, she isn't going to show much improvement until you get her started on the Allopurinol daily to lower her Uric Acid levels. Gout is extremely painful, that's why she is acting so lethargic and cannot move around very well. She's in a lot of pain from the swelling, and then the extra strain on her kidneys is also causing her to feel sickly. It's mainly the pain in their extremities/joints that causes them to feel so badly and be so lethargic though.

We just helped a woman on here who pretty much followed the same path you are, she took her dragon to a vet, they didn't do any blood work and just put the dragon on antibiotics without running any diagnostic tests at all, and the antibiotics not only didn't help her (because she didn't have an infection), but it made her worse because antibiotics are very harsh on their kidneys, which were already very stressed by the Gout. So we talked to her, she took the dragon back to the vet and had to demand that this vet (exotics vet, not a reptile specialist) take blood and run a routine blood work panel, because the vet didn't have any idea that Gout was a common problem in Bearded Dragons and absolutely denied any possibility that the dragon had gout. But she stood her ground and demanded that the vet run blood work, and then they had to wait another few days to get the results back, and her Uric Acid level came back at 40!!! (10 is as high as it should be!!!) Then she came back on here and told us that obviously her dragon had Gout, and we just assumed that the vet had given her a prescription for Allopurinol and pain medication...nope, this vet decided that she would have to ORDER Allopurinol from a Veterinary Medicine Supply Company that came shipped already compounded in the correct dosage for the dragon and already in liquid form, and it was going to take another 2 weeks to get the Allopurinol!!! And, this poor beardie owner had already paid this vet $230 for a 2 month supply of the Allopurinol from this company, because she wasn't aware that any Reptile Specialist Vet would have simply written a normal prescription for the correct dosage of Allopurinol compounded in liquid form, and she could have taken it to any pharmacy and had any Pharmacist compound the Allopurinol in the correct dosage and into liquid form, and that a 2 month supply this way would only cost an average of between $15-$25 maximum!!! So we had to fill her in, she called this vet back fuming mad, and this vet acted like she had no idea that she could just write a prescription for Allopurinol, and in my opinion she lied to her, telling her something like "You have to give her "Veterinary-Grade" Allopurinol, not Allopurinol compounded from Human-Grade tablets from a human pharmacy, which is a bunch of BS because THERE IS NO VETERINARY-GRADE ALLOPURINOL!!! They don't produce a Veterinary-Grade Allopurinol at all, the stuff that this vet ordered would have had to have been compounded from the same Human-Grade tablets that are kept in any regular old pharmacy. So either this Veterinary Medicine Supply Company or that "exotics" Vet was trying to make a bundle of money, as again, that 2 month supply of Allopurinol she had ordered and charged this poor woman $230 for would have only cost a retail of between $15-$25, and probably had an actual wholesale cost of around $5-$10! Quite a profit margin there...so we told her to call the vet back, demand that she cancel that order, refund her $230 back onto her card, and write a prescription for the Allopurinol so she could go pick it up immediately. I think it still took a few days longer than it should for this vet to agree to do this, but she finally got the Allopurinol prescription called into her regular pharmacy, and her pharmacist compounded the correct dosage for her dragon and put it into liquid form, and she paid like $20 for the 2-month supply.

From that point it still usually takes a couple of weeks of them being on the Allopurinol for their Uric Acid level to drop enough to show marked improvement, but finally after I think about 3 weeks or so of being on it her dragon perked back up, started eating again, moving, wasn't as lethargic, etc. The Allopurinol is amazing stuff and works so very, very well, but the key is getting them on it as quickly as possible. This is exactly why I told you to "Stand Your Ground" with this vet when you go to the appointment!!! You must absolutely demand that they take blood on that day during that appointment and that the blood panel they run include a Uric Acid level, a kidney panel, and a liver panel, along with the routine CBC. This will confirm or rule-out not only the Gout, but also any type of infection, and will show what her kidney function is like and how much damage, if any, has been caused by the Uric Acid (it's reversible once the UA level is dropped).

The bottom line is that the longer a Veterinarian is allowed to dick-around and not simply perform routine diagnostic tests, the longer it will take to get a proper diagnosis, the longer it will take to get the dragon on the correct treatment, and most importantly THE MORE DAMAGE THE VET CAN DO BY JUST SKIPPING DIAGNOSTIC TESTS AND INSTEAD "GUESSING" WHAT MIGHT BE WRONG AND THEN PRESCRIBING ORAL ANTIBIOTICS OR ANTIBIOTIC INJECTIONS THAT WILL NOT ONLY MAKE HER KIDNEYS MORE AND MORE STRESSED IF SHE DOES HAVE GOUT, BUT COULD ACTUALLY KILL HER BY PUTTING HER INTO RENAL FAILURE IF SHE DOES HAVE GOUT....Pisses me off, these vets that make a good income to just walk into an exam room, run no tests, ask no questions about the dragon's husbandry or possible causes of the illness, just look at the dragon and then tell the owners that "it's probably some type of infection or parasite, here, give her this broad-spectrum antibiotic for 2 weeks and if she's not better at that point then maybe we'll do a culture or blood work"... :banghead:

By the way, did you get the T5 UVB tube/fixture yet? That should perk her up a bit, but don't expect a lot until she gets the blood work done and gets on the Allopurinol and some good pain medication. That's the other thing, be sure to ask for pain medication, like Tramadol. That other member's vet refused to give the dragon any pain meds, I guess because she refused to admit she might have Gout...you must demand the blood work, demand the pain meds, and actually I would request a prescription for the Allopurinol on the day of the appointment. It will take a few days to get the blood work results, but if you already have the Allopurinol prescription filled and on-hand, all they have to do is call you up when they get the blood work result back and say "Yep, she has Gout, start giving her the Allopurinol right now". That's much better than them calling you on a Friday, telling you she needs Allopurinol but they you can't get the prescription until at the earliest Monday, etc. You'll instead have it ready to go, because it's pretty obvious that Gout is the issue....AND GET COPIES OF EVERYTHING, ALL TEST RESULTS, VITAL SIGNS, NOTES THAT THE VET MAKES, DOCUMENTATION OF ALL MEDICATIONS AND THE DOSAGES GIVEN, AND IF THEY DO AN X-RAY OR ANY OTHER IMAGING TESTS BE SURE TO GET THEM TO EMAIL YOU A DIGITAL COPY....
 

Pigeoncracker

Member
Original Poster
Alright! I didn't know it was a common issue with the vet. She is just an exotic pet vet, I think she treats ferrets too. There is a reptile vet an hour trip away. It'll be worth it at this point so I've booked an appointment with them. Instead of the much closer one.

I do not have a T5 yet. I have to obtain a few more materials to support the smaller bulb as, belive it or not we have a custom made hood for the florescent bulb. I'm waiting to see how much the vet charges me before I start getting bunch of things. I'm low on money at the moment, only about 100 left.

I'll make sure to demand some pain killers too. Thank you for all your help, I appreciate it immensely.
 

Drache613

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
Hello,

I hope your new vet appointment goes well. How is your little one doing?
I'm sorry she is still having such a rough time of things, I know how troubling it is when they
are ill. Is her beard black at all?
It does sound like she is having some pain right now, if she has a lot of trouble moving her
joints. Does she move around very much?
Try to get food & fluids into her as much as you can. Keep us posted on her.

Tracie
 

Pigeoncracker

Member
Original Poster
Drache613":2el1b4ac said:
Hello,

I hope your new vet appointment goes well. How is your little one doing?
I'm sorry she is still having such a rough time of things, I know how troubling it is when they
are ill. Is her beard black at all?
It does sound like she is having some pain right now, if she has a lot of trouble moving her
joints. Does she move around very much?
Try to get food & fluids into her as much as you can. Keep us posted on her.

Tracie

She does not move aside from a few short around her basking log. We're giving her baby food since she doesn't want to eat anything right now and we can force that into her mouth safely. We're trying! All vets are booked way out into January because of Christmas unfortunately, so we still have to wait. I'll keep you guys posted when it does happen and any new developments though!
 

AHBD

BD.org Sicko
Poor little Sawyer, I hope she can get help ASAP. It's definitely not for lack of effort on your part. Can you call your exotics vet and strongly urge them to call in the allopurinol to the pharmacy ? At least that would get treatment started right away.

And if your t8 is mounted in the tank, there's no need to replace it until after 6 months. It's still a good bulb and is so at 8-10 inch distance. I've never mounted one at 6" distance in all the years I've owned + raised dragons [ at least 25 years ]
 

Pigeoncracker

Member
Original Poster
We had to reschedule our appointment for a week out from our last one.

In the last two days she's been throwing up anything we feed her. That's not good at all! I don't know what I can do if I can't get anything into her. I'm just feeding her black cherry juice and seeing if I can get roaches into her, if not then syringing a small amount of baby food into her.

It's on Thursday. Hope she can hold out until then. Do you guys think she'll make it? I don't know what else we can do. I'm short on money due to the end of the month and Christmas, plus putting away money for the vet appointment. I'm not sure if there's anything more I can do other than hope she holds out.
 

Pigeoncracker

Member
Original Poster
It might be better giving her to someone that can take of her better than two broke teenagers who don't have a lot of money in the first place? I'm not sure anyone will take a sick beardie, but I hurt seeing her suffer and I'd rather have her be happy with someone else with the right resources than die with my care.
 

AHBD

BD.org Sicko
Poor little Sawyer, I can just imagine how you feel. Whatever happens, don't blame yourself.....you're really trying to help her and it's obvious she means a lot to you.

I don't know if much more can be done, but do check her temps. again.....what are they on the basking area and how do you take them ? Can you post a pic of her and the entire cage ? Has the vet prescribed Allopurinol ? If not, maybe call + beg them to call some in to a pharmacy, tell her that Sawyer can really no longer move on her own and that dragon owners whose animal has gout often have that done.
 

Pigeoncracker

Member
Original Poster
Okay so I called into the vet, and since I have a vet appointment tomorrow, they said they would have a prescription ready for me for the appointment. At least that's some good news.
 

Pigeoncracker

Member
Original Poster
We got a vet appointment early. We brought her in and got practically the worst news possible.

She had a systemic infection (adenovirus I think is what I heard), along with gout, metabolic bone disease. The vet said she's too young and probably has a 10% chance of surviving after almost $300 of treatments, so we opted to put her down. We can't pay for the treatments, neither did we want to put her through more pain than we already have. There's nothing to justify our decision, we made mistakes at the start and it cost us when she struggled.

We're getting a mold of her paw print to keep.

I was not there personally for the vet treatment. My girlfriend took her along with another friend of mine. Hard news for all of us.

Rest in peace Sawyer, 8/12/17 to 12/27/17. You will be dearly missed.
 

AHBD

BD.org Sicko
I'm so sorry that it had to come to this but it sounds like the right decision. My heart goes out to you , it's always so sad to lose a pet like this. :(
 

Drache613

BD.org Sicko
Staff member
Moderator
Hello,

Oh I am so sorry to hear you had to have her put down. :cry: That is rough, it's never easy to
lose one, no matter how old or young they are.
I am sorry for your loss.

Tracie
 
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